Cruelty in Milwaukee... (PLEASE READ)

RatKing216

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
11
I was recently at Hoffer's Tropical Pet store in Milwaukee, WI . I was HORRIFIED at the conditions!!! I may be new to the trade but I have General Knowledge! Every Tarantula they had was in a container about 24" long/10" wide/5" deep!!! Arboreal's were left with nowhere too climb! Burrower's were left with nowhere too Burrow! And to top that off all the T's were placed in there with wood chips for substrate!!! I even told the lady that it was cruel to house a Cobalt Blue like that!!! Her response? "As for cruelty, we don't have the room to house all of them in big cages. This is only a temporary home for them. You will give them a better home won't you?" I think ANYTHING would be better than this!!! This is unbelievable! I just called the store and no one cared about what I had too say! I even told them I'm calling the BBB as well! I suggest you all do the same if you're in the MLKE area! I was going to get a Pink Toe but it was a bit out of price for me. The lady told me to talk to the Manager. He may drop the price. It was $40. I wanted to get it for $30ish. He wouldn't move. We're the only store in Milwaukee that has them. No your not. Actually Pet World carries them I said. We'll I can't do anything on the price. I'm sure when you come back, we'll still have one for you here. "WE TAKE VERY GOOD CARE OF OUR PETS." Those were his EXACT words! I had enough and left!
Here's the question I have now for everyone - I want to go back there and get the Cobalt Blue within the next few weeks as I'm in the area. But I have a few concerns being that I am new too the hobby. I have 1 Tarantula so far. She is a 1 1/2" Green Bottle Blue. Go for a beginner. How bad of a choice is a Cobalt Blue for a 2nd T? I know it's like having a pet hole and that it is an Old World so they can be much more aggressive. But is it that difficult to take care of? It's large enough that I can put it in her home and never have to transfer her. But do I ever have to worry about changing the substrate? It just stays in a hole after all. How do you change the substrate if needed anyway? It's not a docile species at all. Where do I put the crickets/worms? In the hole or on the top? Where is it going to molt? In the hole or on top? And is $90 a good price? Not sure of sex. Looks around 3" or so.
Lastly, I ask EVERYONE around the Milwaukee area too PLEASE go and look for yourself and call the Better Business Bureau as well! Thank you for your time on this matter.
 

Crochunter054

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
1
I know the exact one u are talking about I was there a couple weeks ago and almost bought that one but couldnt come to spend the $90 and they had a 4" salmon pink bird eater and wanted $100 for it. I just about lost my mind. I also noticed they have heat strips going on the back of all the enclosures and that side is way to hot I asked to see the cobolt blue and the bottom of the one side I couldn't even touch it because it was so hot. I feel so bad for all of them I want to buy them all just to get them out of there but don't have the money to be able to. I wouldnt ever buy anything from them and I would also suggest calling the BBB and not going there if u can go to any other pet store
 

Johnny1320

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
48
$90 for an unsexed cobalt blue seems ridiculous. Why bother supporting some garbage shop who is probably making $60-70 profit off it? So they can order more and house them the same way? Have you looked in the classifieds here? Im pretty sure you can find a bigger sexed specimen for less $ and you'll probably be supporting a breeder that actually cares for its Ts. BBB can probably care less about how a T is housed at a pet store. Sad but true.
 

RatKing216

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
11
I guess I never really thought about it that way John. You're right. I don't want to support them. It's just that I feel so bad about the conditions! I found a Cobalt Blue <edit> from Ken The Bug Guy. Of course I need to spend $30 on shipping. <edit>. But this time from a reliable place. I'll see if I can figure out how to find sellers on this site. Do I pay them with PayPal? And no offense, but how do you know the seller is reliable on here? Is it just an honor system?
 
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acidrain842

Arachnopeon
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Jan 11, 2011
Messages
2
I've seen unsexed cobalt's go for 30-40 dollars. plus shipping.Keep checking the classifieds and I'm sure you'll find a good price. As for the honor question you can check reviews of the seller to see if people have had a good customer experience with them. And the seller will also designate how to send the payment. hope this helps.
 

LV-426

Arachnobaron
Joined
Sep 26, 2010
Messages
500
i was explained by the guy at my local LPS to why they didnt house a cobalt blue there properly was due to the fact is how can he sell a tarantula that cant be seen if it burrows.
 

KoriTamashii

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
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Nov 21, 2009
Messages
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i was explained by the guy at my local LPS to why they didnt house a cobalt blue there properly was due to the fact is how can he sell a tarantula that cant be seen if it burrows.
That's what they always say, but they shouldn't be selling Cobalts to people who don't know what they are in the first place.
 

Rob1985

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this is nothing new... see/hear about it all the time. I rarely, if ever, go into pet stores.
 

RyTheTGuy

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Mar 2, 2011
Messages
231
Not to put Ken down but he isn't the cheapiest breeder on the boards, keep looking
 

Rob1985

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I guess I never really thought about it that way John. You're right. I don't want to support them. It's just that I feel so bad about the conditions! I found a Cobalt Blue <edit> from Ken The Bug Guy. Of course I need to spend $30 on shipping. <edit> But this time from a reliable place. I'll see if I can figure out how to find sellers on this site. Do I pay them with PayPal? And no offense, but how do you know the seller is reliable on here? Is it just an honor system?
you'll know if they're reliable by reading the AB member reviews.
 

demasoni521

Arachnopeon
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
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reptist tarantulas has 3-4" unsexed <edit> in the classifieds section
 
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RatKing216

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Mar 1, 2011
Messages
11
Before I jump in and get anything though, I would like someone to answer a few questions if possible. I asked these in the opening post. I will just copy and paste here too make it that much easier...
I have a few concerns being that I am new too the hobby. I have 1 Tarantula so far. She is a 1 1/2" Green Bottle Blue. Good for a beginner. How bad of a choice is a Cobalt Blue for a 2nd T? I know it's like having a pet hole and that it is an Old World so they can be much more aggressive. But is it that difficult to take care of? It's large enough that I can put it in her home and never have to transfer her. But do I ever have to worry about changing the substrate? It just stays in a hole after all. How do you change the substrate if needed anyway? Can it live and that substrate for the rest of its life? It's not a docile species at all. Where do I put the crickets/worms? In the hole or on the top? Where is it going to molt? In the hole or on top?
If anyone could help on these questions, that would be wonderful.
 

RyTheTGuy

Arachnoknight
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
231
Just because its an aggressive t doesnt mean you cant transfer it into a deli cup and change the substrate. But you wont have to change it very often. Use 10 inch TA-21 Stainless Steel Feeding Tongs, for feeding of course....

Full Grown Size 4 to 5 inches.
Growth Fast speed.
Temperature 80 to 90° F.
Humidity 78 to 82%
 

RatKing216

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
11
But how would it be as a 2nd ever T? And do you just throw the cricket on top and it finds it, or throw it into the "pit"? LOL. And where will the T molt? On top of the substrate where I will be able to get the molt, or in the "pit", where it will never be seen again?
 

RyTheTGuy

Arachnoknight
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
231
Your T is going to molt where ever it feels like really, Im not 100% on that sense im new to the hobby but it sounds good.... Use the feeding tongs to put crickets at the top/ entrance of the burrow, the T should pop up and grab it. you can use a small piece of PVC pipe to "sometimes" make your T burrow where you want. like up against the glass/side and you can see your T anytime you want, some people cut the PVC in half and put it right up against the side of the cage. Your T will see its a save place to hide go down and after time make a burrow.

I have 1 T right now and its a Avic Avic but tomorrow i am buying a G. Pulchripes for my second T. Im getting another Docile T because i've only had mine for 3months and dont want to move to quickly, if you feel the same way get a G. Pulchripes or a B.Smithi. at my LPS i was offered a chance to buy a female Cobalt Blue I turned her down because i know they are more difficult/aggressive and me personally am not ready for that, plus right now i want a T i can handle. Hope this Helps
 

Rob1985

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Before I jump in and get anything though, I would like someone to answer a few questions if possible. I asked these in the opening post. I will just copy and paste here too make it that much easier...
I have a few concerns being that I am new too the hobby. I have 1 Tarantula so far. She is a 1 1/2" Green Bottle Blue. Good for a beginner. How bad of a choice is a Cobalt Blue for a 2nd T? I know it's like having a pet hole and that it is an Old World so they can be much more aggressive. But is it that difficult to take care of? It's large enough that I can put it in her home and never have to transfer her. But do I ever have to worry about changing the substrate? It just stays in a hole after all. How do you change the substrate if needed anyway? Can it live and that substrate for the rest of its life? It's not a docile species at all. Where do I put the crickets/worms? In the hole or on the top? Where is it going to molt? In the hole or on top?
If anyone could help on these questions, that would be wonderful.
the H. lividum is very defensive with guarding it's burrow and anything around it. Once they're out of their rhelm they tend to cower, hence why they're more defensive than offensive. Which reminds me, the S. calceatum has been known to to be opportunistic in being offensive.

Most "defensive" "aggressive" T's will just cower once in a temp housing, like I said before.

---------- Post added at 02:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 AM ----------

Your T is going to molt where ever it feels like really, Im not 100% on that sense im new to the hobby but it sounds good.... Use the feeding tongs to put crickets at the top/ entrance of the burrow, the T should pop up and grab it. you can use a small piece of PVC pipe to "sometimes" make your T burrow where you want. like up against the glass/side and you can see your T anytime you want, some people cut the PVC in half and put it right up against the side of the cage. Your T will see its a save place to hide go down and after time make a burrow.

I have 1 T right now and its a Avic Avic but tomorrow i am buying a G. Pulchripes for my second T. Im getting another Docile T because i've only had mine for 3months and dont want to move to quickly, if you feel the same way get a G. Pulchripes or a B.Smithi. at my LPS i was offered a chance to buy a female Cobalt Blue I turned her down because i know they are more difficult/aggressive and me personally am not ready for that, plus right now i want a T i can handle. Hope this Helps
for most burrowing terrestrials, making a low spot somewhere in the enclosure can promote it to burrow there. My H. lividum burrowed where she wanted to.
 

Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
8,984
Too bad you can't make people care that don't, most just want a job and probably casually told themselves that they like "pets", and say, "hey I wouldn't mind working in a pet store, why not.." Most prob didn't care about the invert thing that came with working in the store. Also, I don't think it's past seeing that keeping Ts and other inverts in at least slightly bad looking conditions could be a strategy to sell to people wanting to save it. Also, a lot of people just don't understand the interest in inverts. The general pet store only orders them because there is a small demand, they don't care about them, "they are just bugs", they would say. I think we can let our biases get to us. To see what I'm trying to say better, let's say I had a fascination with flies and they were selling them at a store and had them in bad conditions, ..."clean", haha. I would complain and they would only think, "hey man, it's just a fly dude." Then I would think, "Oh man I can't believe you have that attitude, it's way too clean in there for a fly!" I think it will remain that way until and if Ts and other inverts get more popular.
 

KoriTamashii

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
420
A cobalt was my second T... and I did just fine. As long as you respect that they are fast and defensive, and don't bother it much, you'll do fine too. :)
 
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