cross-species breeding?

[anything8legs]

I've read some about this in the past, but have never come across much info on it. Has anyone ever tried it? And are the offspring fertile? I've always though someone should cross a GBB and a Goliath, that would be sweet. even though it probably wouldn't work and is probably a bad idea anyway, its a cool thought.

 

[eksong]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would assume that if hybridizing were possible, it would have to be between similar species within the same genus.

 

[anything8legs]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would assume that if hybridizing were possible, it would have to be between similar species within the same genus.

You're probably right, but like I said, I've seen very little info on this topic, which leaves plenty of room for the imagination.

 

[David_F]

There are quite a few threads about cross breeding tarantulas here on AB. The two spiders would have to be same genus and I think it has been done before. But, most people seem to be against it. GBB and Goliath qould be a pretty cool mix though. Hehehe

 

[Chris V]

From what Ive read in these threads its almost "Taboo". Its O.K. if it happens naturally and someone discovers it and attaches their name to it. But God forbid you attempt hybrids. (Guess its kinda cheating)

 

[sansoucie]

In the words of the CodeMonkey:

This is a never ending topic - you should search through this board and other boards for the key words hybrid, hybridization, hybridizing.

The short answer is that with tarantulas you can often get males and females from the same genus to breed, some smaller number can actually produce viable offspring. If it is possible with true spiders, it would follow a similar pattern, i.e. species from different genera are too different to succeed with.

True hybrids are sterile. Cross breeding is a genetic dead end with a couple of exceptions. Arachnid taxonomy has a curious artifact: subspecies status is frowned upon, so there are probably examples out there of two similar appearing species that actually should be subspecies of a macro species - these would produce fertile hybrid offspring. There are also examples of what, in arachnid taxonomy, will eventually be folded into a single species because while probably acceptable as two subspecies, they're not so different to keep as two separate species.

Now, all that said, there is only one circumstance that hybridising of arachnids is completley acceptable: taxonomists verifying species status. If you insist upon doing it yourself you must destroy any young that you do not personally plan to keep, and never sell, give away, release, or otherwise distribute any young from a hybrid cross. Particularly for tarantulas, hybrids have great potential to cause problems in the hobby. Less so for shorter lived true spiders, but the same principles should apply.

Here's thread from just a few days ago on the subject:
http://www.arachnopets.com/arachnob...=&threadid=2475

 

[Mad Hatter]

... there is only one circumstance that hybridising of arachnids is completley acceptable: taxonomists verifying species status. If you insist upon doing it yourself you must destroy any young that you do not personally plan to keep, and never sell, give away, release, or otherwise distribute any young from a hybrid cross. Particularly for tarantulas, hybrids have great potential to cause problems in the hobby. Less so for shorter lived true spiders, but the same principles should apply.

Why? I mean why would this "cause problems in the hobby" if the offspring are supposedly sterile?

By the way, it's a fascinating subject, this. I never heard of such a thing.

 

[David_F]

I can see how it would cause a problem in the hobby IF the person who cross bred two species presented them as a pure species. As long as the hybrid is labeled as such I don't see it causing a problem. I don't agree with cross breeding but that's just my opinion.

 

[RazorRipley]

The term "species" doesnt mean a whole lot to arthropods, and other more primitive groups of animals, Species is defined as: able to have reproductive potential offspring. However, tarantulas can defy that often. Some known examples are crossing a suntiger with a trinidad chevron, or different pokies, Ive even heard that people have crossed rosehairs with seemanis. As for your idea of a greenbottle, and a goliath, it wouldnt work. Typically to hybridize you need spiders from the same genus, and they have to be rather similar in the first place. However, even the word "genus" dont hold that much weight in this debate, sort of off topic, but a rat snake can interbreed with a corn snake, and theyre not even in a similar genus! So... maybe you can be one of the testers one day to try and make your own new species, but be careful, a lot of people get mad, cause you weaken the gene pool, etc.

 

[David_F]

The term "species" doesnt mean a whole lot to arthropods, and other more primitive groups of animals, Species is defined as: able to have reproductive potential offspring. However, tarantulas can defy that often. Some known examples are crossing a suntiger with a trinidad chevron, or different pokies, Ive even heard that people have crossed rosehairs with seemanis. As for your idea of a greenbottle, and a goliath, it wouldnt work. Typically to hybridize you need spiders from the same genus, and they have to be rather similar in the first place. However, even the word "genus" dont hold that much weight in this debate, sort of off topic, but a rat snake can interbreed with a corn snake, and theyre not even in a similar genus! So... maybe you can be one of the testers one day to try and make your own new species, but be careful, a lot of people get mad, cause you weaken the gene pool, etc.

Okay, first of all, your post was completely contradicting in some places.

I know it wouldn't work with a GBB and Goliath. But that wasn't my point. I was simply stating that if it were possible it would be cool. They are from different genera. Which makes me wonder who you know that has crossed G. rosea with A. seemani. And, just FYI, rat snakes and corn snakes are in the same genus. Both snakes are in the Elaphe genus. Therefore, it is possible to cross breed these two snakes. It even happens in nature.

 

[RazorRipley]

Do you catch nothing? I said typically differating genus' can not be crossed, HOWEVER (which means: in contradiction to proceeding) sometimes this rule is challenged and defeated, and yes, we have roseas and seemanis that have hybridized, I dont think the person responsible wants you to have their name, they really arent your type, they teach college classes. Goodluck on your Greenbottle Goliath.

 

[David_F]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread or turn it into something personal. This will be my last post. If RazorRipley has anything else to say to me he/she can PM me. If you have roseas and seemanis then, please, let's see some of the specimens. I'm not saying it's not possible. I was simply saying it's rather odd. You don't know a thing about me. How do you know what kind of people are my "type"? Finally, do YOU catch nothing? I said I know it's not possible to cross Goliaths with GBBs. You seem to be a bit egotistical my friend.

 

[Phillip]

True hybrids are sterile.


Wrongski There are many snake hybrids from different genus that produce healthy fertile offspring as well as other non reptile hybrids. Due to this it stands to reason that fertile hybrids can also be produced from inverts allthough I am personally against it.

Phil

 

[David_F]

Okay, I lied, that wasn't my last post. Phil, was I wrong in my statement about corn snakes and rat snakes being in the same genus? I'm still new to snakes but everything I've found put them in the same genus.

 

[caligulathegod]

A major issue is that imports are getting increasingly rare. Some countries have already cut off exports completely. The most responsible way and soon to be only way we can keep the hobby alive is through captive breeding. That obligates us to keep the species pure. No one is served by mudding up the gene pools.

 

[da_illest]

cross breeding is ok in some ways but not in others... take avicularia for example, it's one messed up genus.. there are so many hybrids of this species no one knows what the heck they have anymore.. i have an Avic Avic which looks a hybrid so i wouldn't know what the heck to breed it with to keep the bloodline pure in the hobby... there have been hybrids and i have one, a mix of brachypelma vagans and mexican rose-grey (brachypelma vallidum i think :? )... this is why hybrids are frowned upon by many, to keep the species' integrity intact...

 

[Aviculariinae]

Here,s a picture of a Hybrid!
Irminia male crossed with Cambridgei Female!
>>>CLICK HERE<<<
And Some Spiders outside of their own genus can be hybridized Iridopelma, Avicularia,Psalmopoeus and Tapinauchenius.

This will be an ongoing debate for some time to come!

Cheers
Brendan

 

[David_F]

Here,s a picture of a Hybrid!
Irminia male crossed with Cambridgei Female!
>>>CLICK HERE<<<
And Some Spiders outside of their own genus can be hybridized Iridopelma, Avicularia,Psalmopoeus and Tapinauchenius.

This will be an ongoing debate for some time to come!

Cheers
Brendan

I should learn to keep my word when it comes to these threads. That's a nice looking T. Don't agree with hybridizing but I'd still probably buy one.

 

[sansoucie]

By the way, I didn't write that, codemonkey did... honostly I have been trying to make an informed decision on this and have been reading quite a bit on hybridization. There are SO many conflicting "facts" that I am finding it impossible to make a decision if I think it is harmful or not. Code said they would be sterile, but I am finding this is not the case for a large percentage of hybrid offspring. Personally I like the idea of keeping a species pure and am a stickler for making even my enclosures as true to their nat habitat as I can. I enjoy observing them naturally. BUT I can see where the captive breeding and hybridization is going. I have seen it happen with dogs and you have a lot of "mud" purebreeds and the purebreeds are skyrocketing in price and availability. With dogs, there isn't the infertile eggsac thing, but there is the attempt to breed out the hybrid or make the hybrid more pure.IE a jack russell and jack parson mixed. Breeders then breeding each russell/parson offspring with a "pure" russell to thin out the parson genetics.and then decide to call it a Jack Russell again. Pitbulls are the same way. They're hybrids to begin with and the purist breeders are introducing the bulls more in breeding to thin out the other genetics.
Personally I think it's dangerous to the hobby as it will effect price and purity. Plus may give some gimped up useless Ts in the long run.

If I am incorrect about the breeeding of Ts I wouldn'r doubt it as I have never bred them. I would love to hear more on this and any sources of information.

 

[Phillip]

North American corns and rats are indeed in the same genus or rather most were until a recent taxonomic change. Still they are very closely related and in cases like corn/emorys they are the same genus. The snake hybrids I was referring to however are the corn/gopher and corn/king crosses which are not in the same genus. There are also several other snake hybrids that aren't in the same genus but these are the most common.

Phil