Cross Beeding Brachypelma Sp.

Travis K · Sep 24, 2007

Does any one have info or links on Cross Breeding Brachypelmas or any other type, and creating a Designer Spider so to speak? Kinda like Leopard Geckos you know, getting all sorts of cool color morphs and stuff. I was just thinking about that and though i would pass the subject on to every one else and see where i goes.

And before some of you go on saying how barbarack that may be this is intended to be strictly a "can one do this?" subject, rather than a "should one attempt to do this?". My favorite Pet in the whole world is a product of Selective Genetic Manipulation. He's Rupert my Weiner Dog, and i love him Very Very much. And i am sure he doesn't care that he is different from a lot of other dogs.

LOL, any way EVERY1 please feel free to voice your opions. All are appreciated and welcomed.

Travis, Spokane WA(home of GREAT summers & Crappy Winters)

Talkenlate04 · Sep 24, 2007

Mina · Sep 24, 2007

Ryan is correct. This has been a very hotly debated topic before, most people here are against it, either mildy, heatedly, or somewhere in between.
It has been done and is possible, although from the little I know only with species of the same genus. Scott's tarantulas has a picture of something they claim to be a B. vagans/ B. albopilosum cross, which frankly to me looks like a B. albopilosum. Most people here feel that there is enough difficulty already in identifying different species of T's, that making a cross bred species will make it more difficult. If any of these cross bred T's were sold or given to someone who didn't know what they were and they decided to breed the cross to whichever parent it most resembled, do you see what could happen? Its not a good idea or truthfully the best topic in the world to discuss. It just makes people upset.

Mushroom Spore · Sep 24, 2007

Travis K said:
Does any one have info or links on Cross Breeding Brachypelmas or any other type, and creating a Designer Spider so to speak? Kinda like Leopard Geckos you know, getting all sorts of cool color morphs and stuff...My favorite Pet in the whole world is a product of Selective Genetic Manipulation. He's Rupert my Weiner Dog

I think you don't at ALL understand how species work. An albino tremper whatever leopard gecko is still the same species as a regular leopard gecko. A dachsund is the same species as a German Shepherd. They are only more or less exaggerated versions of "some humans are dark-skinned and others are white with red hair, and Eskimos have a different build from pygmy tribes."

A Brachy. smithi and a B. vagans are no more the same species than we are the same species as a chimp.

Also blargh, rage, grr, haet this topic, rah.

Talkenlate04 · Sep 24, 2007

And so it begins.

Travis K · Sep 24, 2007

Lol

Thkx for the reading material, i guess that would have been the appropriat first step to do a search!

Mushroom Spore · Sep 24, 2007

talkenlate04 said:
And so it begins.

rararar

That's right, I have my cape on and everything.

(I did get my car back, though.)

Nah, you guys actually got it covered, I just couldn't let that morph/species confusion slide again.

sick4x4 · Sep 24, 2007

man i was ready lol.........understand what it is your asking, and then ask why would you want to do that??? the guys are right and from the looks of it, you'll have plenty of reading to tide you over for a bit.....

Travis K · Sep 24, 2007

I didnt say...

I didn't say i was going to do it. Just wanted to know if people have attempted to do so and what the outcomes were.

And if they can breed and produce offspring don't you think they are closer related than some of us think? Especially if the offspring are sexually viable, wouldn't it be like AKC is to mut, the morphs of coarse being the muts.

And i still need to readd all the info above, but would be cool to see some pics of crossed Ts.

If this pisses you off, then get over yourself. It's not like I've attempted a breeding project....

YET

hehehe :}

Talkenlate04 · Sep 24, 2007

If this pisses you off, then get over yourself.

That's basically telling a majority of the boards to get over it just so you know......... Id venture to say that about 70% are not ok with it. Maybe 10% don't care because they never would and are to busy breeding pure. And 15% might want to own a hybrid and or conduct some breedings but for a scientific reason. Then there is the 5% that would want to breed anything to anything just because they can be it money reasons and or the "cool" aspect. It's the 5% I am worried about more then anything else, the ones that would sell just to make money and things like that........ those are the bad guys in the hobby.

Brian S · Sep 24, 2007

Not another cross breed thread!!! :O Oh my word!!!

Talkenlate04 · Sep 24, 2007

Brian S said:
Not another cross breed thread!!! :O Oh my word!!!

Oh common man your no fun. lol.

I tried to nip it in the bud........ but it never seems to go that way does it.

Travis K · Sep 24, 2007

After I Read the Info, or should i say Propaganda?

LOL, I like these kinds of discusion!

THANKS Talkenlate for all the thread links, you ROCK BRO

So we have a lot of debate on this subject matter but little in the way of actual hard data and evidence. My thoughts were purely in the aesthetic arena, and if you got something ugly what would be the point?

I agree on Bloodlines, and keeping them pure, but why not have variations as well?

I truely think its not a thing of if, but rather when! In that regard, there will be Pure Species available and a lot of pride in them, and the morph sp. I have no doubt that it will be knida messy, but with all the die hard Purist out there, i am not conserned about about the fall of a species in the wild. If you get a T with Awesome color and wild patern, that looks really cool and is hybred, doesnt that take away form wild imports that are truely the evil in the pet trade, and cause species decline and or extinction?

Mushroom Spore · Sep 24, 2007

Travis K said:
and cause species decline and or extinction?

If you hybrid, say, Brachypelma smithi until there are no Brachypelma smithi anymore, how is that different? Hybrids being leaked into the general community labelled as pure specimens to be bred with other members of a species has already damaged genetic lines in numerous species, and not just tarantula species. It doesn't matter how responsible you think you are; if you breed hybrids and they EVER pass into someone else's possession, the matter is already out of your hands.

And please don't flatter your position by accusing everyone who disagrees with you of "propoganda." You are not a martyr.

Travis K · Sep 24, 2007

Lol

Man you need to lighten up!

The fact of the matter is that Hybrids wether past, Present, or FUTURE, are going to happen. Be it by accident or intentionally. So how is the Hobby going to handle that?

Really we might need to think about labels and getting so called Pure Breeds lisenced or something. That in the long run might make for better T's in the Hobby now?

And i still think that if one was to create a very attractive Hybrid Sp and it was popular, it would Deffinately take preasure off of wild populations. G. Rosea for example, form what i understand is mostly WC in the trade. And i really dont think they are that nice looking(my opinion, dont have a cow), and WC is so bad in my mind. That is worse than creating some variant, for the pet trade.

Besides, if you create a hybrid you can name it after yourself, lol

jeff1962 · Sep 24, 2007

Travis K said:
LOL, I like these kinds of discusion!

THANKS Talkenlate for all the thread links, you ROCK BRO

So we have a lot of debate on this subject matter but little in the way of actual hard data and evidence. My thoughts were purely in the aesthetic arena, and if you got something ugly what would be the point?

I agree on Bloodlines, and keeping them pure, but why not have variations as well?

I truely think its not a thing of if, but rather when! In that regard, there will be Pure Species available and a lot of pride in them, and the morph sp. I have no doubt that it will be knida messy, but with all the die hard Purist out there, i am not conserned about about the fall of a species in the wild. If you get a T with Awesome color and wild patern, that looks really cool and is hybred, doesnt that take away form wild imports that are truely the evil in the pet trade, and cause species decline and or extinction?

The reason most people are against it is because you are opening a Pandora"s box.There is more than enough variations that are being captively bred that provide "Aweome color and wild patern" .I have 8 T's now and probably will never be able to have all the ones I would like. And I plan on getting alot more.If anyone feels that they don't have enough to choose from in this hobby you really need to get a new one.

Travis K · Sep 24, 2007

New Hobby?

NO Thanks!

But thanks for your imput! You rock!

WyvernsLair · Sep 24, 2007

Travis K said:
Man you need to lighten up!

The fact of the matter is that Hybrids wether past, Present, or FUTURE, are going to happen. Be it by accident or intentionally. So how is the Hobby going to handle that?

Really we might need to think about labels and getting so called Pure Breeds lisenced or something. That in the long run might make for better T's in the Hobby now?

And i still think that if one was to create a very attractive Hybrid Sp and it was popular, it would Deffinately take preasure off of wild populations. G. Rosea for example, form what i understand is mostly WC in the trade. And i really dont think they are that nice looking(my opinion, dont have a cow), and WC is so bad in my mind. That is worse than creating some variant, for the pet trade.

Besides, if you create a hybrid you can name it after yourself, lol

Get a reality check please.

The problem with creating un-natural hybrids (versus natural intergrades) is already causing headaches in the reptile world. There are breeders and unscrupulous sellers who claim their blood lines are PURE corn snake or PURE kingsnake or PURE milksnake, etc. and they are not. They create a hyrid and then breed those offspring back to the type that they most closely resemble until you have an animal that looks pure corn or king or whatever when in fact it is not. And even if you are dealing with an HONEST breeder of hybrids... once those animals are out of the hands of the person that actually bred them - ALL BETS ARE OFF. They have NO control over what that person does with those animals or to the next person that the animals later get sold to and so on. Most people who buy these animals do so because they look cool or they really don't care and so, later down the road, you can't guarantee they will remember what it was they bought so they just sell it as whatever and then the next generation buyer has no clue and the problem keeps going down the line and escalating. I got burned on what I thought and what looked like a corn snake with some small oddities about it. I asked the breeder if it was indeed a pure corn and not a hybrid. The person insisted it was a pure corn. As the snake got bigger the oddities kept bothering me. After doing scale counts and such, I discovered that it was NOT a corn snake. It was a HYBRID corn-king (i.e. what the hobby often refers to as a jungle corn). Can you imagine if I hadn't found out and decided to breed that animal thinking it was pure.. it would have contaminated MY bloodlines. And what about the kid down the street who buys one and only remembers the "corn" part of the trade name? Then the next person thinks they are getting a corn. Many corn bloodlines have been royally screwed up due to hybrid bloodlines contaminating breeding projects.

Because the T hobby is already having problems in just identifying pure animals, the last thing we need is someone deliberately screwing up the hobby a whole lot more by playing mix-n-match games. It's one thing to play hybrid maker for experiment and curiosity purposes, BUT only if the person doing it NEVER puts those offspring out into the trade. They need to keep every single one of those spiders and if they can't deal with that.. they should kill off the excess offspring. We don't need people playing those games just to make money off unsuspecting people. It makes the hobby look bad when people start learning they got burned.

mwh9 · Sep 24, 2007

Here's a thought, no matter what you do, if you breed an T's adopt one of these and use them. This is a standard form for rabbits, but is easily converted for T's. Here's the link.
http://islandgems.net/pedigree.html

Travis K · Sep 24, 2007

Registration? Great Idea!!!

Right on Dude, we should all use something like this every time we breed, then you can know where the sling were breed, who did the breeding, and who the parrents were.

LOL, some one should Create a form for T's and ever one can start using it.

Cross Beeding Brachypelma Sp.

TravIsGinger

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