Condensation problems again

Cash4mould

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Hello its me again. I stopped using my heat matt ocotober last year to keep my g.rosea warm after it started causing condensation problems and just used the heating in our house. Unfortunately this year my grandma has said we will not be able to have the heating on due to rising energy bills so i attempted to use my heat matt this morning ( i wanted to check if it would be suitable for night time as i woke up in the night last night to the thermostat saying her enclousre was 17 degrees and Freaked out) within ten minutes all sides of the enclosure were forsted with condensation. All of the substrate i bake before use so i dont know how this could be from moist substrate? And the milk cap of water is on the other side (i thought if i didnt put the matt under the water it wouldnt evaporate or smthn) does anyone know why else this could be happening or ideally, any cheap to run space heaters known? if i turn the temp way down will this still happen? She lives in a plastic box that i have added additional ventaliation to by stabbing more holes..to the point where i snapped the top of the box but she cant get out there so its ok. Pls dont be mean i just want to help my spider and am poor
 

Cmac2111

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Hi there! First things first, try not to freak out in situations like this as this will cause you to make rash decisions that could end up hurting your spider more than the cold ever could... these animals are hardy and have survived for millions of years in all manner of environments. G rosea inhabits the desert and scrubland areas in the Northern regions of Chile and other surrounding South American countries, where nighttime temperatures will often dip to or even go below 15 degrees Celsius, so as long as the temperature raises a bit during the daytime, then these conditions at night are not an issue. Room temperature (19-21 degrees C) is more than adequate.

Even if there is some moisture in the substrate, this is not an issue so long as it is not excessive (a picture of the substrate you're using and your entire setup would be useful so we can see if there are any glaring problems, but if you've baked it then I doubt it'd be too moist). I never keep any T's bone dry. Adding more ventilation on the sides and top of the enclosure will help (especially if you've added some at the level of the sub and on the lid of the enclosure), but don't go mad to the point your breaking stuff. Are you sure she can't get out?

There are plenty of cheap space heaters available all over the place online (just type in space heater with thermostat and see what could be within your budget). The unfortunate reality of these is that they will jack up the electricity bill if used excessively (I know the energy situation here in the UK is mad at the moment, and its best to conserve where you can), so be careful and remember... room temps are fine.

DON'T use a heatmat without a thermostat, and DON'T put said heatmat on the underside of the enclosure. Tarantulas will burrow to escape extreme heat (I.E from an unregulated heatmat) and might not figure out that they are in opposite land where heat comes from below. Thus, we will have a cooked spider on our hands. If you use a heatmat, use it on the side of your enclosure and MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE IT IS REGULATED BY A THERMOSTAT AND BY YOURSELF, as thermostats can break.

I'm from Scotland, it is freezing here in the autumn and winter months, and so believe me when I say I've panicked over similar things. I used to panic when I first entered the hobby about condensation and the cold, leading me to massively overthink my husbandry and freak out, desperate to mess around in their enclosures and adjust moisture levels, temperature, add in new sub, remove old sub etc. I had to learn that I was being overzealous in terms of my attitude to keeping my little friends, and that I was the biggest detriment to them at the time, not their environment (not saying you are at all, I know you just want what's best for them). I hope this helps you.

EDIT: By 'under the water dish' did you mean on the side under the water dish? If so, then sorry for the whole heatmat rant lol
 
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Cash4mould

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Sorry yes so the water bowl is on the left and i put the heat matt on the right. But it was UNDER the tank as most of ventilation is on the top. Thank you for this comment it made me feel alot better. I think i felt slightly cold and just thought well she must be dying then. Day time temp im not sure about my room but the thermostat (electric) shows between 19-23 generally and so does the little like heat sensitive strip i have in there as a back up but the temp outside hasnt started dropping much yet.
I almost started messing with the heat matt last night out of panic im glad i didnt it wouldve been so moist in there by the morning. Im SURE she cant escape i broke it a while ago. Its like split on the lid but it stays together unless u apply pressure to push them apart which she cant do and i find a little difficult tbh. I will post pictures of the set up and what i use for substrate in a bit im not there rn. I know about the heating bill going up with the heater i meant like a cheap TO RUN not necessarily cheap to buy but i can look around for a low wattage one. My room isnt very big so it shouldnt take too long to heat the whole room .
Its also probably worth noting shes only about 1 year old.
But again thank u sm for posting this it gave me peace if mind im quite paranoid in my life atm i needed to see this ty.

This is beech chips...im not sure why i started using these? But i remember not finding anything about not using them i think i was panicking about moisture and read they are absorbent. I also obviously have crickets that i feed her and they use some of this too. I tend to just put it at one end of the enclosure. Im just saying this so if u tell me i shouldnt use this i dont feel i wasted money. 20220926_180520.jpg coir coconut fibre. I always buy loose because ...again...freaking out about moisture and u obviously have to moisten the bricks so i prefer this 20220926_180511.jpg 20220926_180503.jpg ok as u can see there is a crack on the top of the lid but it doesnt open almost atall i even thought it opened more than it did but its really fine. there is only about 4 air holes on the sides of her enclosure that i added after i got it from a friend who was keeping g.rosea in their for the shop they worked at. There are four BIG air holes on the top in the corners onky one seems to be in frame but there are also lots of other holes i added on the top. I would like to add more holes to the side but i panicked a bit after i broke it (maybe youre noticing a theme) u can see her little legs poking out from under the log. From taking these photos ive noticed the farther side of her bark may be mouldy? There is a white dot on it i dont think was there before. She has the plant pot ive seen her hide in there so i might take the bark out. 20220926_180458.jpg
 

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cold blood

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this year my grandma has said we will not be able to have the heating on due to rising energy bills s
Wow, I find this incredible. Food prices are going up, too, has grandma declared you are not to eat food this winter as a result of those high costs? I say this because as humans there are two vitally important things to a good life...food, and proper temps... food is only slightly more important...prioritize better and heat your home....please..

You can keep the temps lower, sure, but for goodness sake, please use the furnace.


BTW, those wood chips are not appropriate substrate.

Also, the hide isnt appropriate....break it in half. A hide should NEVER have a bottom or be a dead end.....a hide is not a home, rather its more like a front door.....the t will use the hide as a starting point for a burrow.
 

Cmac2111

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Ok crack is fine (I thought it would be like a whole chunk of the top missing lol). 19-23 is absolutely perfect in the daytime! Coco fiber (eco earth) should be your substrate out of those 2 (don't' use chips). The main thing I would recommend changing here is to add a bit more substrate, like half to 2/3rds full over the entire enclosure. Young Tarantulas enjoy the security of a burrow, and T's of all sizes love to dig and move stuff around. Watching them rearrange their enclosures and did out stuff is one of the most entertaining aspects of tarantula keeping (unless you don't like the idea of having your nicely laid out enclosure bulldozed, then it's a nightmare :rofl:)! Bury the cork bark into the coco fiber, and then provide access points or 'starter burrows' at different entrances (just a little hole for them to find and start excavating, they may well not use it)! I will provide a pic of my young Brazilian Black tarantula, which is housed in a similar way to your Rosie, so you can see what I mean. If she is on the cold side, her metabolism may slow and her growth rate with it, but it won't kill a hardy T like G rosea unless it gets properly frozen.

EDIT: Cold blood is on the money
 
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Cash4mould

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Wow, I find this incredible. Food prices are going up, too, has grandma declared you are not to eat food this winter as a result of those high costs? I say this because as humans there are two vitally important things to a good life...food, and proper temps... food is only slightly more important...prioritize better and heat your home....please..

You can keep the temps lower, sure, but for goodness sake, please use the furnace.


BTW, those wood chips are not appropriate substrate.

Also, the hide isnt appropriate....break it in half. A hide should NEVER have a bottom or be a dead end.....a hide is not a home, rather its more like a front door.....the t will use the hide as a starting point for a burrow.
Pls be kind to my grandma i know this is a very strange thing to say but i think we had problems with the energy bills last year before the price hikes. She might be a bit paranoid i imagine we will heat the living room as its the main room and is what we did last year before i got my spider, then i started heating my room. She has ms so im obviously concerned about the lack of heat in a lot of ways rn 😅. I will talk to my dad he is better at convincing her about things.
By hide i assume u mean the plant pot? Ok i shall do this at the same time as taking the chips out. She shouldnt be tooo stressed out by me changing things again. Explains why she keeps going in there and facing the back wall.
Im still gunna look for a space heater just incase.
 

cold blood

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Pls be kind to my grandma i
I in no way shape or form disparaged grams, i merely urged you to help re-think the home's heat as a larger priority.
By hide i assume u mean the plant pot?
Yes
. She shouldnt be tooo stressed out by me changing things
Stress is a commonly talked about thing, and IMO its almost always the wrong thing to worry about.....if stress killed ts, they would have been extinct a long long time ago.
 

Cash4mould

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Ok crack is fine (I thought it would be like a whole chunk of the top missing lol). 19-23 is absolutely perfect in the daytime! Coco fiber (eco earth) should be your substrate out of those 2 (don't' use chips). The main thing I would recommend changing here is to add a bit more substrate, like half to 2/3rds full over the entire enclosure. Young Tarantulas enjoy the security of a burrow, and T's of all sizes love to dig and move stuff around. Watching them rearrange their enclosures and did out stuff is one of the most entertaining aspects of tarantula keeping (unless you don't like the idea of having your nicely laid out enclosure bulldozed, then it's a nightmare :rofl:)! Bury the cork bark into the coco fiber, and then provide access points or 'starter burrows' at different entrances (just a little hole for them to find and start excavating, they may well not use it)! I will provide a pic of my young Brazilian Black tarantula, which is housed in a similar way to your Rosie, so you can see what I mean. If she is on the cold side, her metabolism may slow and her growth rate with it, but it won't kill a hardy T like G rosea unless it gets properly frozen.

EDIT: Cold blood is on the money
She likes to kick up stuff yeah but i like watching her 😁. She used to have a branch type thing. A very spindley bit of some wood with lots of bits coming off that she used alot for points to start her web but i had to take it out as she got bigger i was worried she might like..stab herself on it. Havent found anything less spikey and small enough to fit yet. She really likes that bit of large bark im annoyed it looks mouldy.
I would love to see ur spooder i want more but want to get more competant at looking after this one first.
I shall take those chippings out and the stuff that other guy said.
 

Cmac2111

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OK so ignore the messiness of the enclosure (This is the bulldozing I mentioned). This is a T I keep that's in a plastic tub like your G rosea. Kept 19-25 degrees all year round during the day and summer nights, can get colder sometimes on winter nights. It looked so nice when I put her in there as well lol

Enclosure (Coco fiber sub, mostly dry, side ventilation) EDIT: Before anyone says it I know... She's chunky. I've stopped feeding for the time being
spider.jpg

Lid (top ventilation made with pin/small skewer)
top vents.jpg

Sub depth
sub depth.jpg

Burrow entrance 1 (propped up by submerged corkbark)
burrow 1.jpg

Burrow entrance 2 (Left side of enclosure, interlinked with 1st burrow entrance so she can go in either side)
burrow 2.jpg
 
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Chris LXXIX

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Wow, I find this incredible.
I don't know well the situation in England/UK, but that's a real issue here, now. Prices reached the zenith, it's a nightmare. Gas and electricity bill skyrocketed.

With that said, you're right obviously. No matter what, eating and heating are the first thing.
 

Smotzer

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You most certainly need to remove/replace all those wood chips with substrate the tarantula can walk on and burrow in and replace/remove that full flower pot with something that the tarantula can burrow underneath if they so choose to.

17c is not cause for alarm, if it was 10c you'd want to make sure it didn't stay that way for long, but I have lost power in the middle of the night before in the winter and everything was okay with the temporary dip, nature does the same thing. Most certainly a space heater would also be much safer than attaching a heat mat to that plastic tub!
 

Benson1990

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being mindful of heating costs is a reality for a lot of people currently, can't say what its like in the US, but a lot of people are in for a hard winter in Europe due to skyrocketing prices, I no here in Ireland prices have gone up dramatically, it's no joke and is a real concern for many.

That being said, you could always buy a larger enclosure/vivarium and heat that then put your T's in it, I do this with my collection, I have a piece of insulation board fixed to the back of a vivarium and I stuck a large heat mat to it, boosts the temps up nicely while not being in direct contact with the tarantulas...this may be something you could look into if you're concerned with temps.
 

Benzen

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being mindful of heating costs is a reality for a lot of people currently
Not just heating. Power too. Average of 30-40% price increase (prices were already pretty high before the increase here due to green policies). Tough times ahead.
 

Dorifto

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@cold blood right now heating your house could mean an entire salary in some places, that's absurd. The actual electric bills are a complete nonsense.

When I lived in the old hamlet (45F inside) the bills were quite expensive and heating only one room were like 200€ a month, now the prices are like 4x higher...

I agree with you that a good warm house it's pure health, but some can't afford actual prices, and it's perfectly understandeable to use that money for food, which already got more expensive, or other more vital things.

@Cash4mould regarging to your issue. One get a nice bag of topsoil, it will help providing a better gradients, so the T could thermoregulate. Those barks/chips are a big no sorry.

Place the heat mat in one side, using a thermostat, this is mandatory, if not you could kill your T. Make a slope alike enclosure, placing the heat mat on the thinnest side, and the hide in the opposite side and cover it with substrate, so it gets cooler inside. The T will stay on the warm spot and will use the burrow like a cooling spot if it needs to.

The heat mat should be small enough, yes small, not big, so it only heats a small portion of the enclosure, leaving some space so the enclosure still offers some temp gradients. If it's too powerful, just place it further, so it irradiates the enclosure rather than heats a side by contact.

Hope it helps.
 

Cash4mould

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Thank u all for your help. It is 05.55 am right now and its about 16cin my room (17.5 in the enclosure) . Ive got the heating matt on the small side not touching the enclosure but it is making me a bit uncomfortable because shes just sitting on the wall warming up not doing anything. She has been there all day. I am going to go out and try to find a space heater today as i dont like the idea she might be unconsciously cooking herself. If i cant find one ill have to do that tank idea but im a little short on cash atm.
Heres the updated enclosure. Am i giving her too many hides? I see alot of u saying i should cover the hides in substrate too so i shall do that when the sun comes up. And move them away from the heat matr which i will keep there but not on. If it gets genuinely cold i will turn it back on but as i said im a bit worried about it atm. The sun will come up soon and it warms my room first. I also have black out curtains that do a pretty good job of stopping the cold coming in but a breeze does come out under them. Thank u also for ur understanding of the cost of living crisis. Its a real concern for us as i am unemployed (i get disability so im not completely peniless) and my grandma is living on her pension and the small amount of rent i pay (all goes to the bills).

OK so ignore the messiness of the enclosure (This is the bulldozing I mentioned). This is a T I keep that's in a plastic tub like your G rosea. Kept 19-25 degrees all year round during the day and summer nights, can get colder sometimes on winter nights. It looked so nice when I put her in there as well lol

Enclosure (Coco fiber sub, mostly dry, side ventilation) EDIT: Before anyone says it I know... She's chunky. I've stopped feeding for the time being
View attachment 429514

Lid (top ventilation made with pin/small skewer)
View attachment 429515

Sub depth
View attachment 429516

Burrow entrance 1 (propped up by submerged corkbark)
View attachment 429517

Burrow entrance 2 (Left side of enclosure, interlinked with 1st burrow entrance so she can go in either side)
View attachment 429518
She is so pretty wow. Mine does not bury things that much 😂 but she is still only very small. I shall bury some of her hides when its daylight and maybe take one out. I put lots in because i feel she doesnt have much in there. Im studying animal management so im always thinkign about enrichment and worried im not giving her any. Its hard in the smaller tank aha. Whats that white stuff is it moss? That seems like a good insulating idea. I have been thinking about getting some but i tend to go into panic over drive thinking about things instead of just checking information.

Ok so i thought i had a more recent picture but that is before i put more coir on the water bowl end end too the whole enclosure is of similar depth substrate (about half way maybe just under) I also changed that peice of cork for a different piece as i think the other had a speck or two of mould. I did see someone say to make it sloped tho so maybe i will push more to one end when i go back in to put substrate on the hides. I may not do this today actually because she seems very stressed from me moving things the other day. Hasnt come off the wall yet and i dont want to stress her more by moving her around.
 

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gregor

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16.5 in her tank now :/
Still nothing to worry about. When i lived with my parents, i lived in not so well insulated attic room, so temperatures droped to 14C on the coldest nights in winter and they were all just fine.
Just remember you dont have to feed them as often. If she is well fed you dont have to feed her until temps are higher.
Just make sure she has water once in while. I usually gave mine water every week. but only a little, because she would just dump dirt in water bowl.
 

Dorifto

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i dont like the idea she might be unconsciously cooking herself.
That's an absurd myth that has been spreaded over an ober again...

In the nature they have the most powerful heater, THE SUN, and we don't see millions of Ts dying cooked or fryed under the sun, and that's because they have the hability to thermoregulate themselves, but for that, they need temp gradients. The issue starts when the people heat up the whole enclosure. Doing that, you deprive them from the hability to regulate their bodies, because they won't have enough temp gradients to do so. That's the real issue, not the heat mats.

Simply check that it doesn't go against their instinct, eg placing the heat mat under the tank (it can be done, but for very specific reasons and conditions) so the T tries to cool down or prevent dehydration by digging down, and end ups having issues.

Placing it in one side and heating a small portion won't pose any risk at all, actually it can be beneficial. If the T sits on that wall, don't worry, if it has gradients it'll be fine. Just make sure that there is a bit of moisture around the hide to prevent debydration, and keep the area near the heat mat drier to prevent condensation.

A space heater also can dehydrate ts, and that's something people don't know or tell normally, if you are not aware of it, it can dry enclosures much faster, because heating cold air decreases the RH (relative humdity). So keep an eye on the moisture level.


If your family is struggling money wise, a heat mat will be the best option. Period. You barely will notice it on your electric bill. A space heater for a single T these days, it's absurd.

Regarding to your enclosure, you need a bigger/longer deeper enclosure, with way more substrate. Then place the heat mat in the opposite side of it's hide, not behind or near it. Cover generously the hide to provide a better gradients and make sure it has some moisture around. As mentioned get a bag of topsoil, westlands it's a good brand for example, it will help you keeping the right moisture levels and at the same time will provide better temp gradients.

A bag of topsoil it's like 5 bucks, and keeping the heat mat running will be like 2€ (25watts/24h) a month depending on the wattage, so they are highly cost effective methods to keep your T healthy.
 
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