Community setup - failure.

KoriTamashii

Arachnobaron
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Well, after a good 5 month run, my A. avic communal has failed.

There were three 2"-3" avics inside a 12x12x12 Exo-Terra, lots of places to hide, lots of space, lots of food.

No problems until a couple of days ago.

One of them is simply vanished, leaving only a couple legs behind :(

He was the one in heavy premolt, so my best guess is maybe he was too vulnerable while molting and the other two ganged up and ate him, or that he didn't survive his molt (which seems unlikely) and they ate his remains (which also seems unlikely).

Should I leave them in together and wait, or just call this a failure and go ahead and separate the remaining two?
 

JimM

Arachnoangel
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A. avics are not a communal species.
They'll live in close proximity to each other in the wild sometimes, but
with plenty of space should they need it.

12x12x12 is not "lots" of space.
 

KoriTamashii

Arachnobaron
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A. avics are not a communal species.
They'll live in close proximity to each other in the wild sometimes, but
with plenty of space should they need it.

12x12x12 is not "lots" of space.
I'd heard of people trying it, so I gave it a shot.

Obviously... I've learned my lesson :wall:
 

PrimalTaunt

Arachnobaron
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Sorry to hear about the loss. Hopefully others will read this before trying their own and not have to sacrifice another one to learn it the hard way.
 

Bill S

Arachnoprince
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Thanks for posting. If other people post both successes and failures, along with details, I think we can all learn something from the experiments.

You mentioned that the vanished one was in pre-molt, so I assume it had not yet reached maturity. How close to maturity were all three of these? Any idea what the mix of males and females was? Those details might also be useful.
 

WARPIG

Arachnoangel
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Tough break but useful info none the less.

If it were me, I would separate. GL regardless.

PIG-
 

AgentD006las

Arach-how about..NO
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I would get a big tank. a 25 gallon tall. 24 long 22 high and 12 wide. Your tank was way too small for a Avic. communal. Separate or make a new bigger home.
 

Fran

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The communal issue has been discussed before many times.
Again, one thing is to keep a true communal sp, another is to put a bunch of t;s on a cage.

If I get a 300 G enclosure aand put there 8-10 blondi, chances are they are gonna live there for some time. That DOESNT MEAN T blondi is communal.
 

NevularScorpion

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The communal issue has been discussed before many times.
Again, one thing is to keep a true communal sp, another is to put a bunch of t;s on a cage.

If I get a 300 G enclosure aand put there 8-10 blondi, chances are they are gonna live there for some time. That DOESNT MEAN T blondi is communal.
^^^ I second him
 

Bill S

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If I get a 300 G enclosure aand put there 8-10 blondi, chances are they are gonna live there for some time. That DOESNT MEAN T blondi is communal.
Very true. I think the REAL issue for many keepers, though, isn't so much whether species can be kept communally as how big a space would you need to keep a group of them safely together.

Well, maybe not many are looking for this - but I'd like to know this for some species. I do like the idea of keeping a truly communal species or two, but it would also be nice to be able to set up an attractive terrarium with several tarantulas living in it. A 12"x12"x12" cube wouldn't do it for me - but if you did have a 100 gallon or 300 gallon terrarium - would you really be able to keep a bunch of Avics in it? Or some Hysterocrates? Or OBTs? And if so, how many? And under what circumstances and conditions?
 

BillieJean

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Very true. I think the REAL issue for many keepers, though, isn't so much whether species can be kept communally as how big a space would you need to keep a group of them safely together... A 12"x12"x12" cube wouldn't do it for me - but if you did have a 100 gallon or 300 gallon terrarium - would you really be able to keep a bunch of Avics in it? Or some Hysterocrates? Or OBTs? And if so, how many? And under what circumstances and conditions?
I think the only way to keep them safely together would be to have dividers in the terrarium. Regardless of container size, sooner or later, someone will decide to wander for one reason or another. I don't understand why we would put unnecessary risk on our tarantulas, whose lives are literally in our hands, by keeping them within the same container.
 

JimM

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See thread -

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=111204

Though, I have heard of numerous failures, I have also read about some very successful Avicularia communities as well.

All respect to Danny, that isn't really a communal setup. Simply a large tank big
enough to support a number of territories. I can apply this methodology to keeping any species that does not tolerate others of it's kind within it's territory.

As stated above, we've covered this numerous times.
Given enough space you can keep more than one of anything.

I get a 70 gallon and probably keep 8 or so C. fasciatum within this space, but I don't have anything resembling a "commune" I've simply provided enough space for the territories in question.
 

Chris_Skeleton

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With all these threads asking about if avics are communal and with all the replies of "no they aren't," and then the other threads about failed communal setups of avics, you'd think people would finally get it and just not do it.
 

Offkillter

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Jun 18, 2010
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Oh come on,they are just so cute how can something so cute not be communal?
Don't they like each other,or is it just to much cute for one cage.:D
 

Rayven

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Aug 7, 2010
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I would love to have a community tank of tarantulas but I would never try it. I still can't get over the guilt of the death a male who got eaten during a breeding situation. I feel like a murderer for not watching more closely. :(:(:(
 

Bill S

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There are some species of spiders that can live communally - and there are documented cases in which there were multi-species communities. And there are varying levels of social tolerance in spiders. This is still an area where discoveries are being made and people are learning about the interactions and the conditions that allow them. Tarantulas so far seem to be less social than true spiders, but that may be only a matter of us not yet understanding how they live in the wild. Most of the experiments involving social tarantulas are poorly organized, with the two opposing ideas that if you crowd them close enough together they'll learn to get along and if you give them enough room they'll get along. But it's almost certain that sociability in spiders and tarantulas is far more complex.
 

NevularScorpion

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I think the only way to keep them safely together would be to have dividers in the terrarium. Regardless of container size, sooner or later, someone will decide to wander for one reason or another. I don't understand why we would put unnecessary risk on our tarantulas, whose lives are literally in our hands, by keeping them within the same container.
one word "Curiosity"........:)....... they want to experience what it feels like to have a communal set up. The amusement on seeing how the Ts thrive and interact with one another.
 
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