Communal Xenesthis immanis & Frog?

[wrath of the olives]

I just saw this picture talking about a tarantula that lives with frogs:

I didn't believe it at first, but this http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2009/07/03/tiny-frogs-and-giant-spiders/ source seems to indeed say that the Xenesthis immanis tarantula has been known to have a commensal mutualistic relationship with the Chiasmocleis ventrimaculata frog. Has anyone ever tried keeping a pair of these together?

 

[miss moxie]

I've seen this before but I can't remember if it was proven false or if it was true. I don't think anyone's attempted to recreate it in captivity however.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I don't know if anyone tried but remember that we are always talking about, at our homes, captivity. And what can happen in the wild, due to mother nature rules, it's not written that can happen far, far away their environment.

 

[wrath of the olives]

I don't know if anyone tried but remember that we are always talking about, at our homes, captivity. And what can happen in the wild, due to mother nature rules, it's not written that can happen far, far away their environment.

I suspect that is how it would be and that the conditions in the wild that this deals with (threats to egg sacks) would be required for it to happen in captivity. Never know though!

 

[miss moxie]

Right, one would think that without the constant presence of insects bombarding a mother Xenesthis guarding her egg sac, she would just regard the frog as food rather than a level of defense.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I suspect that is how it would be and that the conditions in the wild that this deals with (threats to egg sacks) would be required for it to happen in captivity. Never know though!

Well, trying to analyze the thing... first, I think you will need a very, very huge enclosure. Second, which kind of ventilation, set up etc to provide? Because I assume that frog probably require more humidity than the average, "normal" humidity that is offered to a X.immanis in captivity. Third... which kind of food for said frog?

I don't know... probably only some kinda (serious) zoo could try something like that.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

The relationship between Xenethis immanis and the frog Chiasmocleis ventrimaculata (Family Microhylidae) is definitely true and was described in depth in 1989 by Reginald Cocroft (reference below). The relationship can't be described as communal because they do not work together to survive, but rather commensal where one organism benefits while the other neither benefits or is harmed or even symbiotic (both organisms benefit but don't work together). Microhylid frogs produce a toxin in their skin that makes them taste bad to tarantulas and other invertebrates so the tarantula of course won't attempt to eat the little frogs. This living arrangement provides a safe place for the frogs to live in that the burrows provide shelter from predators and a suitable damp environment while the tarantula benefits from it as well as any young tarantulas from predation by ants. One interesting aspect of the frog/ tarantula relationship is that the frogs don't eat the baby tarantulas when present.

Microhylid frogs cohabiting with tarantulas has been reported in the literature several times and it would appear to be a common occurrence world-wide. The burrows/ retreats of Aphonopelma hentzi, Poecilotheria species, and of course Xenethis immanis all have been observed to have the small frogs cohabiting with them. One published account of a frog (Eleutherodactylus occidentalis) cohabiting with Brachypelma auratum has been made (West 2005). The latter instance is the only occurence of a non-microhylid frog cohabiting with a tarantula.

I could only find two articles in which tarantulas and microhylid frogs were put together in captivity to determine how they react to one another experimentally. I was only able to download and read one (Dundee 2012) though. The tarantula used was Aphonopelma hentzi and the frogs used were Gastrophryne olivacea and Gastrophryne carolinensis. An additional frog Acris crepitans (family Hylidae) was used to determine if A. hentzi would attempt to consume it considering A. crepitans does not produce a toxic substance in its skin. To grossly simply the results, A. hentzi avoided the microhylid frogs (G. olivacea and G. carolinensis) but ate the A. crepitans.

References

Cocroft, Reginald B., and Keith Hambler. "Observations on a commensal relationship of the microhylid frog Chiasmocleis ventrimaculata and the burrowing theraphosid spider Xenesthis immanis in southeastern Peru." Biotropica (1989): 2-8.

Dundee, Harold A., Cara Shillington, and Colin M. Yeary. "Interactions between tarantulas (Aphonopelma hentzi) and narrow-mouthed toads (Gastrophyrne olivacea): support for a symbiotic relationship." Tulane Studies in Zoology and Botany 32.1 (2012).