Communal Species

chanda

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I've just started keeping M. balfouri communally. I have five slings that I purchased in November (sac mates), and so far they're all alive and well - and show a definite preference for being together. Even though they're in a good-sized cage (5 gal) with multiple hides and plenty of space, they all share one burrow with a big webbed "front porch" where they hang out in the little interconnected tunnels. They have plenty of space to spread out in the webbing, but are usually sitting practically on top of each other. (Sometimes they actually are on top of each other.) I have not yet seen them sharing prey - but then I haven't seen much of any feeding behavior from them. It would appear that they like their privacy, doing most of their eating when no one is around to watch.
 

Trenor

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I go back and forth on my opinion of communal setups. They sound super neat in concept but @Poec54 pointed out some time ago that with multiple tarantulas in a single enclosure feeding and maintenance could become a real bear trying to keep track of several simultaneously when opening the enclosure. To the best of my knowledge, as many have mentioned, M. balfouri is the only species that I feel comfortable calling communal. The observations of shared burrows in the wild leads me to that. I haven't seen research of other species living in groups like that, though if someone has links to some it would be super interesting to me.
I was a bit concerned when I first got mine that they would all try to make a break at the same time. Though, from what I've experienced, they really are not any harder than a single spider when feeding/tending if you've housed them properly. Once they settle in, just like most my Ts, they will go for the safety of the burrow when you open the enclosure. Now I open the communal enclosure just like any other for feeding/cleanup and I've never had one ever try to run out. They two times I've rehoused them wasn't difficult. I remove everything I can from the enclosure and then work them out. You grab the one that is the farthest from the others in a catch cup pop on the lid and repeat.

When they first go into a new enclosure I set them up with several good starter burrows. I like to place foliage around them to add more cover. I add one in and wait for it to pick a burrow then add the next until the are all in.

I've had more trouble getting my P.cam and one of the pokies out of cork tubes then I've had with any of my communal rehouses.

They are pretty neat and I've had mine going for just under a year if I remember right. All of them are still alive and healthy. None of them are really bigger than the others.

I've just started keeping M. balfouri communally. I have five slings that I purchased in November (sac mates), and so far they're all alive and well - and show a definite preference for being together. Even though they're in a good-sized cage (5 gal) with multiple hides and plenty of space, they all share one burrow with a big webbed "front porch" where they hang out in the little interconnected tunnels. They have plenty of space to spread out in the webbing, but are usually sitting practically on top of each other. (Sometimes they actually are on top of each other.) I have not yet seen them sharing prey - but then I haven't seen much of any feeding behavior from them. It would appear that they like their privacy, doing most of their eating when no one is around to watch.
Yeah, when mine were smaller I didn't see them out as often. Lately though they are out a lot. I do keep the T room about 78 all the time. I've seen mine in a pile like puppies even when there is enough room not to have to. Mine setup house just like yous did. They picked a burrow and made it large enough for all of them. Then they laid out web tunnels around it. As they got bigger, they dug the burrow out more and added more web tunnels till the whole enclosure was covered.
 

Trenor

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I doubt there is much to go on when it comes to scientific papers on communal tendencies with M. balfouri. I know a few keepers that have 20-30 in their enclosures. When it comes to hobbiests keeping this many successfully then scientific papers dont have huge impact. If they have already been proven can live, hunt and breed together without issue.

Users on this forum keep communals. @Trenor is one that I can think off the top of my head just now.

I'm sure some more users that keep of large balfouri communal setups will chime in too.
Yeah, I've had my oldest one for about a year. It has 3 Ts in a communal enclosure. The newer one is about nine months old one and has four in it. Both are thriving and they are working out really well. I've not had any problems or losses.

The only other species I would think about trying communal is N.incei though from what others have posted they seem to be a lot more prone to problems if your communal conditions gets off.
 

viper69

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I've never seen any studies to confirm it, other than random anecdotes.
Nor have I, it is all anecdotal evidence from hobbyists when it comes to communal keeping. Though if memory serves, 1 species has been observed to live communally, N. incei. Contact Martin at TCanada, they took photos of this on their trip. They used to have those pics on their site, but are no long there.

M. balfouri
There are no reports of M balfouri living communally in the wild to my knowledge.

What proof is there of them being truly communal and not just tollerant?
None, captivity can produce all types of abberant behaviors.

What are the interactions like between the individual spiders?
From hobbyists, the M balfouri interactions are fascinating. The person who has some of the most detailed observations on AB is Thistles. Her communal is multigenerational. BlueJay has some good observations as well.

I did my studies with Avicularia
What species, and was it field research, lab research, or your own personal research at home?

Have their been actual published studies, or is it just word of some hobbiests
Hobby stories.

If it is just hobbiests, how many have been able to confirm this?
Quite a few actually!

I'll have to see if I still have the file. It wasn't published online, only in print.
What is the reference? Was it published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal?

Doesn't matter if it wasn't published online, lit cited, is lit cited.

I've had more trouble getting my P.cam and one of the pokies out of cork tubes then I've had with any of my communal rehouses.
Now that is just fascinating. Balfouri are quite fast for their size, I'm surprised 1 T, even a P cam, is more difficult than 3 OWs!
 

Trenor

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Now that is just fascinating. Balfour are quite fast for their size, I'm surprised 1 T, even a P cam, is more difficult than 3 OWs!
Most I've seen out of them was a little scurry when I move their enclosure for feeding. Mine seem to hide as long as they think they have cover. When rehousing, they went to the main burrow when I removed plants and other cork. When it was just dirt and the main burrow, I used the long forceps to move the last cork. From there I just worked them in the catch cup. I had them transferred in 10-15 mins.

The pokie and P.cam took longer and was trickier to get out due to the narrow (for their new growth)/long cork tube. They tried to squeeze into crevices in the cork and not move regardless of how they were tickled. When they did come out, it was from the opposite side I was working. This gave them both a head start on me and the catch cup. So, in that regard, I had more trouble (at least so far) with them than the communal because none of the M.balfouri left the old enclosure until they were in the catch cups.

I've seen them move quickly to a hide spot but nothing like the lap my P.met did in a round 32 oz deli. I give them a big enclosure (for their combined sizes) with a decent amount of plant clutter for webbing. I've never had them run anywhere but to their webbing/burrow to hide. My H.pulchripes which I have been keeping in 16oz delis with a lot less hide options does tend to be more speedy since they have less places to hide. I'm interested to see how they act once I move them into larger setups similar to the M.balfouri communal. It could be the cover that makes mine less prone to flight than to hide. Which makes them easier to work with.

If it does make a big difference in how flighty they are then I may consider moving other Ts from the delis into larger enclosures sooner than I have been.
 
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SkyeSpider

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There are no reports of M balfouri living communally in the wild to my knowledge.

From hobbyists, the M balfouri interactions are fascinating. The person who has some of the most detailed observations on AB is Thistles. Her communal is multigenerational. BlueJay has some good observations as well.
See, that's the kind of thing I was hearing about pinktoes 15-20 years back. Everyone had a story about their colonies working out. Pet stores around me kept them together in 10 gallon aquariums (like 20 to one cage). It was widely believed to be the norm, which is why I wanted to test it.

What species, and was it field research, lab research, or your own personal research at home?
Several species: A avicularia, A metallica, A urticans, A versicolor, a few others that are slipping my mind right now. It was lab and personal, mostly lab.
 

Chris LXXIX

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I'm starting to think I want to start a balfouri colony.
One of my dreams is to make an indoor* pool (the classic Olympics one, not a plastic pool) fill that with substrate and cork bark, buy a good 500 Goddess and enjoy the Goddess Domain from a DIY balcony :-s

* you wouldn't have to worry about temperatures, light etc
 

EulersK

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Entomology is the study of insects, not arachnids... how were you running experiments on the University's dollar when they didn't apply to your field? Or was it purely out of your pocket?
 

Walker253

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One of my dreams is to make an indoor* pool (the classic Olympics one, not a plastic pool) fill that with substrate and cork bark, buy a good 500 Goddess and enjoy the Goddess Domain from a DIY balcony :-s

* you wouldn't have to worry about temperatures, light etc
In my mind, I picture Zeus on a balcony overlooking his lady warriors ready to squash any rebellion against him.
 

Chris LXXIX

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In my mind, I picture Zeus on a balcony overlooking his lady warriors ready to squash any rebellion against him.
True my man, true my man u_u

But not only Zeus, also Ares (or Marte), Athena/Minerva (The deity that watch my city, a statue made in Italy '30 & still up today) and the whole Einherjar watch over the supreme African red earth ruler, the Goddess :-s
 

korg

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H. gabonensis and H. villosella are very tolerant of communal conditions as well.

I remember that my old copy of TKG lists Avicularia as a potentially communal genus but I honestly don't think I've ever read/heard a success story on that front. Any rumor about "communal" T. psychedelicus strikes me more as an attempt at trolling than an inside scoop... are there seriously people raising them communally for kicks at this point?
 
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viper69

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See, that's the kind of thing I was hearing about pinktoes 15-20 years back. Everyone had a story about their colonies working out. Pet stores around me kept them together in 10 gallon aquariums (like 20 to one cage). It was widely believed to be the norm, which is why I wanted to test it.



Several species: A avicularia, A metallica, A urticans, A versicolor, a few others that are slipping my mind right now. It was lab and personal, mostly lab.
What peer-reviewed journal was your work published in?
 

EulersK

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What peer-reviewed journal was your work published in?
And why was an entomologist studying arachnids? That's like a mathematician studying physics... similar, but far from the same subject.
 

viper69

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And why was an entomologist studying arachnids? That's like a mathematician studying physics... similar, but far from the same subject.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no formal arachnology program, hence the entomology. Other scientists have their doctorate in Biology.
 

EulersK

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To the best of my knowledge, there is no formal arachnology program, hence the entomology. Other scientists have their doctorate in Biology.
And that's my thing. Entomology is quite specifically geared towards insects as far as I know.
 

SkyeSpider

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To the best of my knowledge, there is no formal arachnology program, hence the entomology. Other scientists have their doctorate in Biology.
This. Both myriapods and arachnids get lumped in with entomology, academically speaking, due to not having a specific group of study. By the same token my degree could have been in biology as well, I just chose to specialize a bit deeper, as I like bugs too.

I do have to admit that I wish my degree was in arachnology :)
 
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