Communal scorp list help

ralliart

Arachnosquire
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Mar 13, 2008
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just because you have had them communally and not suffered losses does not mean they are all a "communal" species. go take a look at the tarantula boards.
This DEFINITELY doesn't make any sense.{D

So my question to you. Who determines if a scorp is communal? caresheets? researchers? If some scorps are said to be communal how come they still attack each other some times? (H. Spinifer, P. Imperator, etc)

Are Emperor scorpions communal? What if I tell you I have one specimen that would gladly attack any emps placed in his enclosure?

@snappleWhiteTea

Easy to disagree but hard to explain why. Well... Rd, Vixvy & I posted info/details BASED ON OUR OWN EXPERIENCE and I think it's sufficient enough to back up our claims.
 

ralliart

Arachnosquire
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Quick question. Can you keep Emps with any other species communally from your experience? Like other Pandinus species or Heterometrus species?
I have kept a pair on ADULT emps & cavis together with totally no aggression before for about a year. It was kept in a 30gal tank so there were plenty of floor space & hides. BUT the risk is high that they might not tolerate each other much after some time.
 

rd_07

Arachnobaron
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Dec 4, 2008
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Most likely, no, as from what i've read from other people's experiences, P. Cavimanius are notoriously aggressive to other cagemates. I havent personally had it happen, but i've heard stories. Heck, some pet stores sell them with emperors, all labeled as emperors! So... they can put up with emperors or each other for a while, but its not suggested.
if lps will sell me p.cavi for price of emp i'd like to get atleast 4 :D
p.cavimanus and p.militaris tends to dislike other pandinus sp.

tried to put emp with gregoryi for a bit (when i cleaned the tank) gregoryi seems to be defensive in one corner
when gregoryi with militaris they were both defensive and militaris run away

most really dont like cagemates with other sp. or genus. i was not successful but i read some got good results
 

oogie boogie

Arachnopeon
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Jan 21, 2007
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42
I have kept the following species communally.

Vaejovis Spinigerus x 4
Vaejovis Confusus x 3
Heterometrus Longimanus x 3
Heterometrus Spinifer x 11
Pandinus Imperator x 4


H. Spinifer and P. Imperator being the most communal of all. I tried keeping them from early instars and molted right in each others faces.

The rest i kept during adults only. Still tends to quarrel a bit. But no major damages in my experience

No matter how communally these guys are, you have to understand ample space and hides are really necessary.
 

rd_07

Arachnobaron
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+1

http://scorpionforum.darkbb.com/caresheets-f29/smeringurus-mesaensis-care-t911.htm

if it was wrong, one of the other, more experienced members would have corrected it, as they did with the U. mordax page.
Communal Adaptivity: NOT recommended for this species no matter how large the enclosure is. As I've already stated, this species is an aggressive feeder and they will not hesitate to kill/consume other scorpions smaller than itself.

for s.mesaensis, i agree to this "they will not hesitate to kill/consume other scorpions smaller than itself." once my female molts to 7i(premolt now) i'll breed her with 7i male i will document the behaviour if mature pair will be aggressive ;)
 

gromgrom

Arachnoprince
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This DEFINITELY doesn't make any sense.{D

So my question to you. Who determines if a scorp is communal? caresheets? researchers? If some scorps are said to be communal how come they still attack each other some times? (H. Spinifer, P. Imperator, etc)

Are Emperor scorpions communal? What if I tell you I have one specimen that would gladly attack any emps placed in his enclosure?

@snappleWhiteTea

Easy to disagree but hard to explain why. Well... Rd, Vixvy & I posted info/details BASED ON OUR OWN EXPERIENCE and I think it's sufficient enough to back up our claims.
Are you new to this hobby or just incredibly misinformed? You're playing the devil's advocate to an issue that has already been solved.

So you have a mean emperor. People do. I had three from different bloodlines in the same 20 gallon for over six months with no fights. And when many people and scientists can attest to this, it probably means theyre communal. Or, they can say "In my care, they put up with each other or when they met, they fought." Enough posts for either side can show that theyre communal or not, even with a straggler that fights with everything. That means theyre communal. Understand?

There's also gonna be one or two that are defensive toward cagemates. Maybe you should give them more hides and food, or just separate them :rolleyes: {D
 

psychofox

Arachnoknight
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Gromgrom: Why resort to personal attacks just because someone questions what you say? Do you even have personal experience with i.e. P. transvaalicus? I've actually watched your posts for quite some time, as it very often seems like you are just replicating what you've read other places when answering questions, instead of speaking from your own experience. Of course we all do that sometimes, but why be so stubborn when people's experiences differ from what you've read? Why is what you read on the internet worth more than what other people actually experience with their own scorpions?

I too can attest that groups of i.e. P. transvaalicus very often work out without problems. And pairs of almost all scorpion species, regarded communal or not, can cohabit in the same enclosure without casualties. I have kept over 50 species, all of which have been kept in pairs for periods ranging from weeks to months and years. Whether or not you regard pairs as "communal keeping" is a matter of definition I suppose, but I'm tired of people without actual experience who reads on the internet that this or that scorpion species isn't communal, and then pass it on as the most natural thing.

Edit: Of course this doesn't just go for questions of communality, but all scorpion "facts", which may not be true at all, that are passed around because people claim to know things they in reality don't.
 

H. laoticus

Arachnoprince
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Are you new to this hobby or just incredibly misinformed? You're playing the devil's advocate to an issue that has already been solved.

So you have a mean emperor. People do. I had three from different bloodlines in the same 20 gallon for over six months with no fights. And when many people and scientists can attest to this, it probably means theyre communal. Or, they can say "In my care, they put up with each other or when they met, they fought." Enough posts for either side can show that theyre communal or not, even with a straggler that fights with everything. That means theyre communal. Understand?

There's also gonna be one or two that are defensive toward cagemates. Maybe you should give them more hides and food, or just separate them :rolleyes: {D
I think you misunderstood what Ralliart was trying to say. He/she wasn't disagreeing that emps are considered communal, but posing the question: Who decides which species of scorpion is communal and which ones aren't?

Who knows how much of what is flowing around the internet and off of people's cyber lips is actual fact or simply mere hearsay?

Perhaps claims should either be backed up by real citations or personal longterm experience instead of "I read this" or "I heard this."
It is very tricky to take as truth what others have said as well. It's easy for someone to claim a species is or isn't communal and pass it on, only later to find that something went wrong. However, it is too late to retract what has already been said. I knew a guy who said his desert hairy scorps were communal and he flung those statements around until a year later I found out that they killed each other. However, another person successful kept them for years.

I don't believe ralliart is neither new to this hobby nor is he/she misinformed.
 

gromgrom

Arachnoprince
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Gromgrom: Why resort to personal attacks just because someone questions what you say? Do you even have personal experience with i.e. P. transvaalicus? I've actually watched your posts for quite some time, as it very often seems like you are just replicating what you've read other places when answering questions, instead of speaking from your own experience. Of course we all do that sometimes, but why be so stubborn when people's experiences differ from what you've read? Why is what you read on the internet worth more than what other people actually experience with their own scorpions?

I too can attest that groups of i.e. P. transvaalicus very often work out without problems. And pairs of almost all scorpion species, regarded communal or not, can cohabit in the same enclosure without casualties. I have kept over 50 species, all of which have been kept in pairs for periods ranging from weeks to months and years. Whether or not you regard pairs as "communal keeping" is a matter of definition I suppose, but I'm tired of people without actual experience who reads on the internet that this or that scorpion species isn't communal, and then pass it on as the most natural thing.

Edit: Of course this doesn't just go for questions of communality, but all scorpion "facts", which may not be true at all, that are passed around because people claim to know things they in reality don't.
Good, so what I do is I repeat common information, or say to others "i've read this somewhere" when someone asks a question, common or not? Well, sorry I gave some of my time to help someone.

If I went off of my own experiences versus what caresheets and experienced members say,

1. c. gracilis are not communal, during molting
2. WC v. spingerus are the least defensive specie ever, as opposed to defensive as others have said
3. OBT breeding isnt as easy as it sounds, i lost my male.

theres a few things i thought of off the top of my head.

But until enough people can provide evidence or post topics saying P. transvaalicus are communal, I'm sure the community will just keep them separate. I'd love to get my hands on some, someday, but it seems most of the people that keep them arent from the USA. So its hard to get more information on them.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=31373
says that they are highly tolerable. Or can we agree to disagree that ALL scorpions just tolerate each other, and arent truely, communal, as H. Incei are/seem to be.
 

NevularScorpion

Arachnoangel
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how bout you do a search? this topic came up LAST WEEK. and the week before.

or you could search caresheets and see if the species is communal, because last i've checked, NO ONE has ever considered Androctunus bicolor or
Parabuthus transvaalicus communal
the reason I created this thread is not because I'm too lazy to search for info but to help other people on this board who are planning to build a communal set up for scorps. Instead of going left and right searching for a perfect communal scorp sp for hours on google, they can just read this thread and see all the communal scorp that people kept successfully. Then they can decide if they want to try that sp for communal set up or not. Makes life easy and organize :)

Also based from my own experience
My friend who greatly influence me on the scorpion hobby kept his A Bicolor and P trans pair successfully. The A bicolor even produced scorplings :)
 
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NevularScorpion

Arachnoangel
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How about you do a post based on your own experience and not based on what you read? :embarrassed:

Have you kept a P.Trans before? :}

Rd_07 has already said(IME-IN MY EXPERIENCE). I have kept a COMMUNAL GROUP of P.Trans as well. 2 Males & 3 Females in a 30gallon tank. I believe brianS of venomlist.com has kept A. Australis Communally as well. I have a Communal group of 6 Leiurus Quinquestriatus as well before.

Not because caresheets' says it's not communal means it can't be kept communally. It's probably just that no one has yet tried experimenting if they can be kept communally.

In my OWN experience, Most adult scorps can be kept communally if well fed & with sufficient hides.


From MY EXPERIENCE, Here are some scorps which I have kept successfully kept communally.

Parabuthus Transvaalicus
Leiurus Quinquestriatus
ALL centruroides sp. (gracilis, margaritatus, excilicauda, etc)
Heterometrus Spinifer
Heterometrus Laoticus
Heterometrus Longimanus (Yes some caresheets say they are NOT){D
Pandinus Imperator
Pandinus Cavimanus
Liocheles Australisae
Liocheles Waigiensis
Isometrus Maculatus
Hottentotta Hottentotta


TEAM PACQUIAO :worship:
wow thanks for the list :)

how do you keep your P cavimanus because I had a bad exp on them when I kept a trio (1.2) on a breeder box.
 

Michiel

Arachnoking
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May 22, 2006
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3,478
RD 07:

P.militaris= P.cavimanus.

All,

There are a some scorpions that are found in groups of all life stages. Opisthacanthus cayaporum, some Pandinus and some Heterometrus species.....you could call these "communal".

Others should be referred to as "congener tolerant" in several degrees. This tolerance could be temporarily. So you could keep whatever you can imagine for a period of time without problems, but on a certain you will find one fat scorp in the ensclosure, instead of 2 or 3.

Everyone is talking about "experience" and "opinions", which are subjective, but still interesting to learn. Assessing the info you gain is the trick....
 

rd_07

Arachnobaron
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Dec 4, 2008
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319
RD 07:

P.militaris= P.cavimanus.

All,

There are a some scorpions that are found in groups of all life stages. Opisthacanthus cayaporum, some Pandinus and some Heterometrus species.....you could call these "communal".

Others should be referred to as "congener tolerant" in several degrees. This tolerance could be temporarily. So you could keep whatever you can imagine for a period of time without problems, but on a certain you will find one fat scorp in the ensclosure, instead of 2 or 3.

Everyone is talking about "experience" and "opinions", which are subjective, but still interesting to learn. Assessing the info you gain is the trick....
+1 its just that i cant get over with the old one since the the other is red claw and one is the darker one :) thanks anyways! :cool:
 

AzJohn

Arachnoking
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Dec 25, 2007
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RD 07:

P.militaris= P.cavimanus.

All,

There are a some scorpions that are found in groups of all life stages. Opisthacanthus cayaporum, some Pandinus and some Heterometrus species.....you could call these "communal".

Others should be referred to as "congener tolerant" in several degrees. This tolerance could be temporarily. So you could keep whatever you can imagine for a period of time without problems, but on a certain you will find one fat scorp in the ensclosure, instead of 2 or 3.

Everyone is talking about "experience" and "opinions", which are subjective, but still interesting to learn. Assessing the info you gain is the trick....


I agree. In my "opinion" ;), there are no certainties when dealing with wild animals. Some species are more likely to do well in groups than others. There are always individual scorpions that prove the opposite and can do the unexpected. There is a risk envolved any time you house multiples together. It's a matter of degree. So, I avoid any absolutes when answering questions about which species are more communal. That way I'm never wrong.

From my experience

Species that are less likley to kill, eat or otherwise terrorize there neighbors, at least as adults.

Centruroides gracilis
C sculpturatus
C vittatus
Hottentotta hottentotta
H judaicus
H trilineatus
Babycurus Jacksoni
Isometrus maculatus
Tityus Stigmurus
Tityus silvestris
Tityus bastosi
Rhopalurus junceus


Species that don't play well with others, at least for the few occasions I've tried it.

Superstitionia donensis, cohabitated for 10 minutes then the male was eaten
Hadogenes Paucidens, aggressive female chased male all over the tank
Pandinus exitialis, Aggressive female removed one leg before seperation



john
 

Vixvy

Arachnobaron
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Flame on!

Hey Wilhelm this is all your fault! hahaha! Just kidding man! you know me.
 

MiGZ

Arachnosquire
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Jul 9, 2009
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+1 to Parabuthus Transvaalicus kept as communal as adult IME, i think they can be housed together in the same enclosure but they dont tolerate each other as much as Emperors which shares the same hide/hole sometimes, when breeding my P.Transvaalicus, i put the male for a month or two in the female's enclosure and there is only 1 hide available, so i always find the male wondering outside and never seen resting in the hide with the female, its like "the husband is going to sleep on the couch tonight" :D i think they interact a lot (the male try to do the mating dance with the female, he always wants to score yet he's always rejected {D) in the enclosure because its only a small bin about 12x10x10 yet no cannibalism recorded, i'll try to house p.trans slings together, hope they dont like the taste of their buddy :D
 

NevularScorpion

Arachnoangel
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Flame on!

Hey Wilhelm this is all your fault! hahaha! Just kidding man! you know me.
noooohhh :''( all i wanted is simple list of communal scorps why does it has to turn out like this. why can't we all be communal lol :)
 

Nomadinexile

Arachnoking
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2,674
noooohhh :''( all i wanted is simple list of communal scorps why does it has to turn out like this. why can't we all be communal lol :)
because, that would be easy. :)

Although, at least with a little difficulty, you can get a bit more cred with success. Plus you obviously have a vacuum of knowledge to fill as well! Yeah. Now you can share your observations. ;)

That's the great thing about scorpions. There is so little known, and so much that is debateable, that there is room for all of us.

Try getting into physics or something, and all anyone will ever say, will be an argument about how you are wrong, at least here its up for debate. {D
 

Vixvy

Arachnobaron
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because, that would be easy. :)

Although, at least with a little difficulty, you can get a bit more cred with success. Plus you obviously have a vacuum of knowledge to fill as well! Yeah. Now you can share your observations. ;)

That's the great thing about scorpions. There is so little known, and so much that is debateable, that there is room for all of us.

Try getting into physics or something, and all anyone will ever say, will be an argument about how you are wrong, at least here its up for debate. {D
IMO, the only common denominator here is: Do what works for you, Believe in what you have experienced. Respect other peoples opinion. You do not need to "agree" or "disagree" because it is all base on what a person sees and have experienced.
 
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