Color Morphs?

Tarantuland

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This thread popped into my mind when I read your post:
This thread is very interesting, thank you for sharing!
 

The Grym Reaper

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Do you have any information you can share or link to about people hybridizing these and the offspring being fertile and able to reproduce with the parent populations? I feel confident this has happened, as I've heard about it enough times anecdotally, but I'm just looking for more veritable sources.
I believe @EulersK has had a sac from a hybrid female.

The two examples of hybrids in my previous post have been about in the hobby for decades which is why there was such a fuss about TSS getting "pure" CB Brachypelma slings imported directly from Mexico with copies of the CITES papers, and imports of "pure" Nicaraguan albopilosus. Both with instructions to only pair with other verified "pure" specimens.
 

EulersK

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I believe @EulersK has had a sac from a hybrid female.

The two examples of hybrids in my previous post have been about in the hobby for decades which is why there was such a fuss about TSS getting "pure" CB Brachypelma slings imported directly from Mexico with copies of the CITES papers, and imports of "pure" Nicaraguan albopilosus. Both with instructions to only pair with other verified "pure" specimens.
I did, but she was a terrible mother both times. Dumped the sac in her water dish the first time, never rotated the sac the second time. So no data there haha
 

Tarantuland

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I did, but she was a terrible mother both times. Dumped the sac in her water dish the first time, never rotated the sac the second time. So no data there haha
Call CPS! But for real, would this imply the offspring were not viable?
 

advan

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I did some small protein research last semester with genetics sequencing in regards looking for homologues in different bacteria genera, I might reach out to that professor to see what he knows about how we could do about this. If there’s enough DNA remaining in molts even this might be possible without needing dead specimens
There is not enough in molts, you need to pop off a leg.
 

EulersK

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Call CPS! But for real, would this imply the offspring were not viable?
Not necessarily. I've had mothers tend to eggs that were phantom sacs to the point of me having to remove the sac from a defensive mom.

Were they viable? No idea, but I wouldn't read too much into her skills as a mother. Just my two cents.
 

Ian14

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There is a huge difference between local variations and morphs.
A geographic/locality difference in a species is not a heritable change. So if you bred one locality specimen to a different locality specimen you won't get offspring that carry the gene for that difference.
Take for example corn snakes. Naturally they have some locality specific forms such as Miami and Okeetee. If you bred either with a bog standard corn, all the offspring would be bog standard. If you bred those together, they too would all be bog standard corns, no locality animals. The only way to reproduce those locality animals would be to breed them together.
A morph, however, is a genetic mutation. Generally these are recessive, so to be expressed visually there must be a set of mutant genes from both parent animals. Very rarely you find dominant and co-dominant mutations in which only one set of genes is needed to be expressed visually in the offspring.
 

Phototoxin

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I've certainly read papers where they have sequenced the expressed DNA (via RNA extraction and then RT-PCR) and done alignments to redetermine phylogenic trees. However from what I could ascertain they got the genetic material from basically blending the spiders.

That being said the sucking stomach is left in the moult, which might be soft tissue and not cuticle?

Another, riskier option might be to use a superfine needle to aspirate a drop of haemolymph from the abdomen/heart cavity?
 

Tarantuland

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Just from my conversations with Brent Hendrixson. Your best bet would be to talk to him or Chris Hamilton.

Clicky
nice! I can access this through my university. Again thank you all for the information. As a hobbyist, a future breeder, and an aspiring scientist this is very interesting stuff to me
 

Albireo Wulfbooper

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Not true, primers are cheap
Depends on the primers really. Can be $10 or $200. Cost of sequencing depends on a few factors, including the sequencing platform, and whether your samples can be lumped in with others in a single run. Then there's the bioinformatics part of it - raw sequence data is useless on its own - you need someone proficient with handling the data. If you want to really be able to say anything about the species you need a lot of samples. That ends up meaning a lot of person-hours. This would be a good masters project :)
 

viper69

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Depends on the primers really. Can be $10 or $200. Cost of sequencing depends on a few factors, including the sequencing platform, and whether your samples can be lumped in with others in a single run. Then there's the bioinformatics part of it - raw sequence data is useless on its own - you need someone proficient with handling the data. If you want to really be able to say anything about the species you need a lot of samples. That ends up meaning a lot of person-hours. This would be a good masters project :)
Primers are cheap.

I wasn’t speaking about cost of analysis as you did. I’ve done all those things you mentioned.
 
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