CITES suspends trade in Mexican species

[l4nsky]

https://www.reuters.com/business/en...ed-species-should-be-halted-cites-2023-03-27/

https://www.gdlsk.com/cites-trade-suspension-with-mexico/

https://usark.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=d7e8c81109173978c4240862c&id=1fcb9d2521&e=3691b9bbf2

https://usark.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=d7e8c81109173978c4240862c&id=7b9a9ec409&e=3691b9bbf2

 

[viper69]

Well China and USA are number 1 and 2 respectively of all countries buying exotics legally and illegally Im not surprised.
As long as there is a flourishing illegal market crap happens.

 

[l4nsky]

Well China and USA are number 1 and 2 respectively of all countries buying exotics legally and illegally Im not surprised.
As long as there is a flourishing illegal market crap happens.

All due respect here sir, but read the first link instead of ASSUMING this suspension is due to illegal trade in captive exotics and turning this into one of "those" threads by riling people up.

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

Well China and USA are number 1 and 2 respectively of all countries buying exotics legally and illegally Im not surprised.
As long as there is a flourishing illegal market crap happens.

The sanction happened due to Mexico failing to reinforce totoaba (big endangered fish) protection-had nothing to do with exotics.

Still, this is a disaster for Brachypelma and Aphnopelma CB exports.

 

[viper69]

All due respect here sir, but read the first link instead of ASSUMING this suspension is due to illegal trade in captive exotics and turning this into one of "those" threads by riling people up.

I didn’t assume, I read the article too. My reply is a global one, not specific to this post.

I know all nations’ animals and plants who are harvested feel the pressure of the world’s demands esp from China and USA..

Now if you think that’s not true then there are some law enforcement officials and scientists you should speak with.

 

[DustyD]

I think there is truth to both points here. While this case has to do specifically with the fish Totoaba, at end of the first article it mentions:

“In November, a report by U.S. environmental group Center for Biological Diversity signaled a significant increase in wildlife trafficking in Mexico, blaming toothless regulation for harming wildlife in one of the world's most biodiverse nations.”

The Totoaba case highlights a bigger problem, prompted by demand for wildlife for pets and human consumption/use.

While there have been efforts by Mexico for captive breeding programs for tarantulas, I don’t think those have put an end to illegal importing of wild caught Ts.


The Totoaba is a case that CITES has in its hands, something it can justify and pursue. To me it is like mafia kingpin Al Capone being imprisoned for tax evasion rather the many heinous crimes he actually committed.

I am hoping that this will prompt Mexico to increase its efforts to save wildlife, but with poverty and organized crime/ drug cartels so prevalent, I worry that conservation will continue to take a back seat.

 

[Pedipalpable]

Guess this means no more Brachypelma species for us, since we in North America primarily rely on captive bred Mexican imports. This hobby’s future is looking grimmer every year. Makes me wish I had gotten into it sooner.

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

Guess this means no more Brachypelma species for us, since we in North America primarily rely on captive bred Mexican imports. This hobby’s future is looking grimmer every year. Makes me wish I had gotten into it sooner.

You'll soon know my pain of Brachys being nonexistent in the trade here...

 

[viper69]

The sanction happened due to Mexico failing to reinforce totoaba (big endangered fish) protection-had nothing to do with exotics.

Still, this is a disaster for Brachypelma and Aphnopelma CB exports.

Read my other post. Whether this event happened or not has no relation to the information I’ve read.

Keep up peeps

 

[F1tarantula]

I read the article, but since I am not as developed in words and knowledge as you guys. Just wondering, this means that Brachypelma and Aphonopelma won't be exported for a while? If this is true, thank god I got my Emilia.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

Really unfortunate.

 

[Kegaran]

Guess this means no more Brachypelma species for us, since we in North America primarily rely on captive bred Mexican imports. This hobby’s future is looking grimmer every year. Makes me wish I had gotten into it sooner.

Feels like this is becoming true for every hobby I have lately. It's...quite depressing.

 

[Pedipalpable]

It occurs to me that I forgot to ask if this applies to all imports of Brachypelma species or only ones from Mexico specifically. Will we still be able to import them from Europe? I read all the linked webpages in the OP but it is not clear to me.

 

[l4nsky]

It occurs to me that I forgot to ask if this applies to all imports of Brachypelma species or only ones from Mexico specifically. Will we still be able to import them from Europe? I read all the linked webpages in the OP but it is not clear to me.

The sanction happened due to Mexico failing to reinforce totoaba (big endangered fish) protection-had nothing to do with exotics.

Still, this is a disaster for Brachypelma and Aphnopelma CB exports.

I want to see if anyone can further clarify this, but I believe even European imports to the US will be effected as CITES defines trade as "export, re-export, import, and introduction from the sea" and USFW specifically states in the notice I linked above that the US complies with all CITES recommendations for trade suspension.

For example, Brachypelma spp have been CITES II for awhile, so they've needed CITES paperwork for any border crossings for member states, regardless of whether they were coming directly from Mexico or by way of Europe. If I'm understanding this suspension correctly, a European import of a Brachypelma sp endemic to or exported from Mexico would be considered a re-export under the convention, which classifies it as trade, which is suspended.

Edit: clarified a bit.
Edit 2: @pocock1899 has a clearer analysis and the correct interpretation a little bit later in this thread. There apparently are conditions where Mexican species can still be imported from Europe.

 

[Liquifin]

Although I feel bad that this has happened recently with the Brachypelma species. I think the staple Brachypelma species in the pet trade are well established in the hobby for the most part since a lot of people work and breed them on the regular and they are beginner level species to breed for some people. I just hope people don't use this as an excuse to raise prices like crazy.

 

[Pedipalpable]

I want to see if anyone can further clarify this, but I believe even European imports to the US will be effected as CITES defines trade as "export, re-export, import, and introduction from the sea" and USFW specifically states in the notice I linked above that the US complies with all CITES recommendations for trade suspension.

For example, Brachypelma spp have been CITES II for awhile, so they've needed CITES paperwork for any border crossings for member states, regardless of whether they were coming directly from Mexico or by way of Europe. If I'm understanding this suspension correctly, a European import of a Brachypelma sp endemic to or exported from Mexico would be considered a re-export under the convention, which classifies it as trade, which is suspended.

Edit: clarified a bit.

So I guess we’ll only be able to get Brachypelma spp. that are bred and supplied locally. And since to my knowledge there is little to none of that happening in Canada, I guess that means I’m out of luck.

Although I feel bad that this has happened recently with the Brachypelma species. I think the staple Brachypelma species in the pet trade are well established in the hobby for the most part since a lot of people work and breed them on the regular and they are beginner level species to breed for some people. I just hope people don't use this as an excuse to raise prices like crazy.

How can you be sure of that? I was under the impression that there is not a lot of captive breeding of any tarantulas going on in the US. And I know there certainly isn’t here in Canada.

 

[mack1855]

I want to see if anyone can further clarify this, but I believe even European imports to the US will be effected as CITES defines trade as "export, re-export, import, and introduction from the sea" and USFW specifically states in the notice I linked above that the US complies with all CITES recommendations for trade suspension.

Yep....talked to a well known and highly respected importer/dealer.He relayed to me that is exactly what is going down.Also,any animal with "sp" in the description would also be confiscated.Aside from this nonsense,are Brachys going to be restricted for interstate sales in the US,as are the Sri Lankan pokies are now?.

 

[l4nsky]

Yep....talked to a well known and highly respected importer/dealer.He relayed to me that is exactly what is going down.Also,any animal with "sp" in the description would also be confiscated.Aside from this nonsense,are Brachys going to be restricted for interstate sales in the US,as are the Sri Lankan pokies are now?.

Care to elaborate on the "sp" bit as that's the second time I've heard it this week, but I haven't seen a notice from USFW yet. Is that only from Mexico?

In regards to Brachypelma in the states, as far as I'm aware, they're still not on the ESA like the Sri Lankan Poecilotheria sp, so there isn't any restrictions on interstate trade.

 

[mack1855]

My understanding is that,anything described as "sp",has no species name.So,a genus of say...Grammastola sp blue,they have no idea if that is the species from that genus that is CITES listed.

Think genus...sp...white,or red, or Santa Catalina.....they claim they have no species name,so it may or may not be on CITES.Therefore,all imports without a proper genus and species ID are suspect.

Again,im just relaying what i was told from a highly regarded importer into the US.And they are highly regarded here on AB.

 

[viper69]

My understanding is that,anything described as "sp",has no species name.So,a genus of say...Grammastola sp blue,they have no idea if that is the species from that genus that is CITES listed.

Think genus...sp...white,or red, or Santa Catalina.....they claim they have no species name,so it may or may not be on CITES.Therefore,all imports without a proper genus and species ID are suspect.

Again,im just relaying what i was told from a highly regarded importer into the US.And they are highly regarded here on AB.

Re sp, I can confirm the above through a researcher of Ts, also highly regarded.