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Centruroides bicolor

Discussion in 'Scorpions' started by Mr. Mordax, May 14, 2008.

  1. skinheaddave

    skinheaddave SkorpionSkin Arachnosupporter

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    Was it that obvious? There is so much overlap in terms of colouration etc. and their structure is so similar that most would, I imagine, be indistinguishable from pictures.

    Cheers,
    Dave
     
  2. EAD063

    EAD063 Arachnoprince

    USA
    Hey Dave,

    It was obvious that they were not C bicolor as I've seen 50+ pictures of C bicolor and none that I have seen have shown such orange coloration. Also like I have said, I have kept these pretty C marg for a while now and am quite familar with how they look. (Remember a picture of the adult was posted along with the FS ad.) But as far as coloration in Centruroides, especially this particular group, your are correct, it is HIGHLY variable.

    But because C bicolor is somewhat restricted to a few regions, I would have my doubts that there is much, or any variation in their colors. Species like C margaritatus however (and gracilis for that matter) span through some very differnt habitats through Mexico, Central America and into South America and have many differnt colorforms along the way.

    Personally I am quite happy that this debate was between C marg and C bicolor. Now if it was between C marg, C nigramanus, C chiapanensis and C exilimanus, then we would have been in for some head sratching. :)

    Dave, I am writing a SOTM for June on the Diversity of the genus Centruroides with special regards to C marg, C gracilis and (hopefully if I can find the info) C infamatus. I will send you a PM when I am finished and its posted, I'm sure you will enjoy the read. :)

    Ed
     
  3. EAD063

    EAD063 Arachnoprince

    USA
    IHeart,

    Just wanted to give you a heads up my friend. When your specimen are older, C marg. has a fused row on the fixed finger which is not counted in the total denticle count. So when they are older you may look at them and count 9 rows and say "Well maybe they are C bicolor then".

    This threw Brandon and I for a loop when we were first trying to confirm that they were in fact C marg.

    Ed
     
  4. skinheaddave

    skinheaddave SkorpionSkin Arachnosupporter

    Well, having seen 50+ pictures (assuming this represents a fairly diverse series of pictures and not 50 of one specimen or captive bred population or whatnot) then you should have a fairly good idea. That being said, I am pretty sure I remember seeing a picture of C.bicolor that would easily be mistaken for C.margaritatus. I can't find it now, so it may have been a C.margaritatus mistaken for C.bicolor.

    Anyhow, I look forward to your SOTM.

    Cheers,
    Dave
     
  5. EAD063

    EAD063 Arachnoprince

    USA
    Hey Dave,

    It has been said that C nigrimanus males look very similar to C bicolor. This could cause some confusion as C nigrimanus and C margaritatus are both endemic to Honduras. It has been suggested by entomoligists that all Centruroides specimen from Central and South America should be accompanied by a label of locality.

    Like you, I have seen many pictures of specimen that could go either way. Those that cannot be readily distinguished, in my opinion, I wouuld attribute to the margaritatus, nigrimanus, chiapanensis group. I have also seen some limbatus that look pretty close to C bicolor.

    The pictures I have seen are many differnt pictures of specimen, all taken in the wild. I was set to study abroad in Costa Rica for 30 days before the trip fell through due to lack of interest. (People seemed to think Europe was the better program:() So in prepaeration for the trip I dug up everything I could about C bicolor and was paying particular attention to locale data.

    But a simple way to find 10-20 pictures quickly would simply be going to photosharing websites and finding pictures that tourists have taken.

    scorpion, followed by any country usually gives you some good results.

    Quite primitive... but we must remember that we are a minority. To 99% of the world a scorpion is a scorpion.

    Ed
     
  6. EAD063

    EAD063 Arachnoprince

    USA
    Quick Search ;)

    "scorpion, costa rica" - and these links are just the first 2 pages.

    Notice none are labeled with any species name, so they would not show up in searches.

    Hope this helps a few people in the future.

    Ed

    C limbatus

    http://flickr.com/photos/mcnelismedia/2234267010/

    http://flickr.com/photos/bravenewtraveler/602451930/

    http://flickr.com/photos/kondensatorn/516669748/

    C bicolor

    http://flickr.com/photos/gtothev/320273259/

    http://flickr.com/photos/7721020@N04/452896001/ - shortly after molt it appears


    C margaritatus

    http://flickr.com/photos/55879379@N00/527872165/

    http://flickr.com/photos/dejeuxx/2218959009/

    http://flickr.com/photos/90382355@N00/454436264/

    http://flickr.com/photos/tway76/2269913774/
     
  7. skinheaddave

    skinheaddave SkorpionSkin Arachnosupporter

    Doesn't the fact that none are labeled with species name sort of render them useless? Where you have a locality given, that helps to some degree -- but clumping them into bicolor and margaritatus camps based on looks and then using that to justify that the species look distinct is circular in nature.

    Even where a locality is given, you have to consider the posibility that one or the other species has a wider range than published or that the found specimen is a transplant. With vehicles moving all around the country and Centruroides being as they are, it is not at all inconcievable that the odd species turns up outside of its range.

    Cheers,
    Dave
     
  8. EAD063

    EAD063 Arachnoprince

    USA
    Dave,

    Like I said, I can admit to seeing a fair share of pictures that were a coin toss... but a good amount are in one way or another identifiable.

    You are correct that few amateur published pictures have locale data to occommpany them. But that holds true also with preserved specimens in museum banks. In fact, that is one of the most frustrating matter in higher taxonomy of Centruroides. (As stated in various publications)

    As far as "grouping them into clumps", do any of the species I've provied pictures for look incorrect? Of course in scientific classification, looking at a picture will not suffice... but thats definently not my objective here, and I'm pretty sure you, as well as anyone reading this read, realizes that. As far as what I posted, yes I'd say C marg., limbatus and bicolor are all distinct species based on appearence. Unless you can provide some other information that I'm not aware, I'd say my "clumps" are pretty accurate.

    If you see any differences in the pictures provided that would justify your opposition to them, please let me, and anyone reading the thread know. There are a lot of people who enjoy adding the the confusion, and I sure am not trying to be one.
     
  9. skinheaddave

    skinheaddave SkorpionSkin Arachnosupporter

    Based on its location in the album, this one comes from the Nosara river. Based on locality alone, that would suggest C.margaritatus.

    According to the tags, this one comes from just outside of the range of C.limbatus. That being said, it "looks" like one and it is not too far to imagine that the published range is not entirely correct.

    First off, this looks very similar to one of the margaritatus pictures in Viquez's book on the scorpions of Costa Rica. Secondly, the set of pictures comes from Ocotal, which is well outside of the C.bicolor range and well inside the C.margaritatus range. Could this be C.bicolor as you stated? Yes. If I had to wager, though, I would say it was C.margaritatus.

    So that is 3/9 where locality would tend to suggest other than your ID. I'm not saying your ID is wrong -- you could have nailed each one. I'm also not suggesting that everything is known about these species, that the published ranges are perfect or even that the three species are all valid and that their relationships are well documented (actually, the opposite is quite true).

    All I am saying is that this "it looks like ..." is not a particularly valid method of ID, particularly with these species. This is especially true when no locality is given. Even the denticles/pectine method has its flaws (hence my repeated disclaimers in all matters Centruroides).

    Cheers,
    Dave
     
  10. how many months is the gestation period of C.Bicolor? i have a gravid female, already 2 weeks after mating? how many slings can they produce?
     
  11. mine only took 2months and 13days

    [​IMG][/URL] [​IMG][/IMG]
     
  12. my friend who has 8i c.bicolor had 69 slings
    i'll start counting with mine once they start to crawl down;)
     
  13. Nungunugu

    Nungunugu Arachnosquire

    @ rd_07 I think your C.bicolor is a C.margaritatus. Could I be right?
     
  14. ~Abyss~

    ~Abyss~ Arachnoking Old Timer

    There are C. margaritatus (bicolor morphs).
     
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