Centipede vs. Hopper (graphic)

[RottweilExpress]

I'm not really fond of the thought of putting a living mouse through the process of having it's intestence ripped out of the body while still alive as happens in the vid posted on page 1. Bliss's story only firms my belief. They DO feel pain. It happens in nature, yes. But it won't happen in my home, everything natural isn't necesserily a good thing or the best option. I'm sure you guys wouldn't choose to have your guts torn out by a bear, dispite the fact that it's a natural event.


I happily feed F/T pinkies and living roaches though.

 

[PhilK]

I hate the "it happens in the wild" argument. What a load. They aren't wild centipedes, your humidity controlled, temperature controlled tank isn't the wild. You remove mites even though that 'occurs in the wild'.

I'm fine with feeding live prey (though I'd probably feel bad).. But the sheer amount of joy some people get out of it disturbs me more than a little bit.

Example:

The mouse tried to jump away halfway through the process, and it was pitiful.. the mouse dragging what was left of it's body around, while a massive pede was hanging on enjoying lunch

Disturbing...

Nutritionally a frozen thawed mouse is no different to a live one, and it's a whole lot more humane.

That being said: wicked video, and great pics!

 

[kimjonga]

:clap: :clap: wow
nice
Vietnam giant centipede~!

i'm dehaani mania !!

 

[cacoseraph]

Nutritionally a frozen thawed mouse is no different to a live one, and it's a whole lot more humane.

wrong

all KINDS of stuff is dif between FT and live. we don't know if one is better than the other... but not the same at all

 

[PhilK]

All the stuff we got taught said one is just as good as the other. This is why snakes on F/T don't die sooner than snakes on live etc etc

 

[cheetah13mo]

I hate the "it happens in the wild" argument. What a load. They aren't wild centipedes, your humidity controlled, temperature controlled tank isn't the wild. You remove mites even though that 'occurs in the wild'.

The pede is still in an undomesticated and untamed state and therefor, it is wild. It's just not out in the wild.

 

[bliss]

Feeding live mice is okay with me unless it gets really disgusting.

lol when you feed a pede a mouse, it's gonna get ugly, regardless.



"in the wild argument"? yes i like that one but only to an extent. it's true, we DO have the choice to feed our inverts other things besides a mouse. im totally aware of this. but it doesn't matter to me. i like seeing that mouse struggle

and yes very true, i like things that most would deem disturbing. i find it an absolute thrill.
but eh, i can understand why some people might not like it. oh well, apples and oranges i suppose.

 

[cacoseraph]

All the stuff we got taught said one is just as good as the other. This is why snakes on F/T don't die sooner than snakes on live etc etc

that is just silly

a living mouse will have living gut fauna. a dead mouse won't. a dead mouse, no matter how it is preserved will have started to decay in certain senses... a live mouse won't. a freakin FROZEN then thawed mouse will have even more changes... cells ruptured and sliced apart by ice crystals....


like i said, all kinds of differences. are the differences consequential? probably not. are there differences? obviously. is one better than the other? we for certain can't conclusively say in centiworld. dunno about snake world, just got my one corn and haven't done much deep reading

 

[PhilK]

You do realise that regardless of live/dead it is made out of the same stuff, and the nutrients the snakes obtain from the food item (this does not include gut fauna...) will still be there, in the cells of the food item. There is simply not a big enough difference between F/T and live to justify feeding live.

But like I said, I don't really have any type of problem with it

 

[cacoseraph]

You do realise that regardless of live/dead it is made out of the same stuff, and the nutrients the snakes obtain from the food item (this does not include gut fauna...) will still be there, in the cells of the food item. There is simply not a big enough difference between F/T and live to justify feeding live.

But like I said, I don't really have any type of problem with it

not really. there is going to be changes. lots of the like, chemical strucures are going to change. i'm not saying one is better than the other... i am just saying it most certainly is not the same. probably not really even super close, either.


but... snakes and centipedes are both able to scavenge so it's not a big deal.

it's just... not the same

 

[bliss]

i don't freeze my mice or feed them live, when pertaining to my snake. i take their heads to the sink several good times. then it's feeding time and NO, i don't like to do it that way. trust me, i hate hearing that mouse squeak when i pick it up by the tail. i also hate cleaning the blood off of my sink.

i just find it a real pain in the butt to do F/T, because: 1. the petstore doesn't sell the F/T mice. i don't know why, but they just don't. 2. I don't freeze them myself because that takes too long, and i'd rather have it over with so i can continue my day without having to wait. 3. When it's Frozen, you have to wait for it to thaw. once again, im not willing to wait.

when it's freshly killed, you have the added bonus of the body warmth still being there, and in my experience, that's a big help.

 

[PhilK]

not really. there is going to be changes. lots of the like, chemical strucures are going to change. i'm not saying one is better than the other... i am just saying it most certainly is not the same. probably not really even super close, either.


but... snakes and centipedes are both able to scavenge so it's not a big deal.

it's just... not the same

The process of death isn't quite that simple.. chemical structures don't just change and then all the nutrition is gone. First of all, once blood stops circulating through the lungs to be oxygenated, and the animal is 'dead' .. all the tissues are still alive. All the cells are operating by themselves trying to keep living, and they revert to anaerobic metabolism. Only once this is exhausted does the pH etc rise from lactic acid secretion.. This will denature proteins and enzymes, and then lysosomes in the cell rupture, and the cells 'digest themselves'. Freezing would most definitly slow this process down..

I agree that they're not the same.. but I disagree that they are very different. I would argue they are quite similair (otherwise animals that have evolved to feed on live prey could not subsist and thrive on frozen/thawed prey)

 

[Selenops]

Too bad nobody has genetically created 3"-5" tall chickens than nobody can complain, just ring them by their necks.

What about anoles? I haven't tried them yet. I don't like to see animals suffering by being eaten alive. Don't let me influence anybody though.

Centipedes have the venom capacity to kill mice yet I guess they conserve it. Yet because the venom is designed to produce pain via histamines, serotonin, etc is there any possibility the mice are suffering shock or numbness before the chowing begins? Has anyone thought of that?

 

[PhilK]

No. If they weren't feeling pain they wouldn't react the way they do. They're definitly feeling it.

 

[Stylopidae]

The best way to kill a mouse it to take it by it's tail, grab the lid of a KK, place it right behind it's skull (hard enough to pin it to a hard surface) and pull it straight up.

If done correctly that should sever it's spine from it's brain stem, killing it instantly.

The gut flora argument is BS because a freshly killed mouse wouldn't have time to decay, and the 'in the wild' argument is BS because you are only rationalizing putting your pet in more danger than it needs to be in.

The rest of the arguments are just thinly velied rationalizations for wanting to see the centipede kill a mouse.

Like I said in another thread...just get a tennis raquet.