Caribena versicolor color variation.

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Arachnoprince
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So, I had two color variations of C. versicolor, the "classic" one we are used to see, and a reddish one that is not so common, I believe. What I noticed is that the reddish one is a little bit bigger than the "classic".

Just want to know your thought about this. I mean, these two variations were already common in the forum? If don't, were they common for you as a keeper? For me, I've only seen about 5, or 6 reddish individuals, besides the one I had.

Here's a pic of both:
Above is the "classic", below is the reddish, both female.
To be clear, they both had the same age when I took this pictures, which was about 8, 9 years old so.
Another thing, even though they had about the same age, these pictures were taken in different periods of time.
Lastly, when they started to show adult colors, the "classic" one was never like the reddish or vice versa.
20200715_144317.jpg
 
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spideyspinneret78

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That's interesting. They definitely have different coloration. I think I've seen something similar in photos people have posted too. I wonder if they're descended from different localities/ populations (assuming they're not sacmates). It is interesting though. I wonder if others have noticed something similar.
 

Vanessa

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I have heard that there are two different locales and one is far more red than the other. I have not seen the red version in person.
The problem is that so many people over saturate, and over edit, their photos that you often don't know what is real and what has been altered.
 

Smotzer

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I believe they are different localities and should be bred accordingly. (Not sure if all people do though) I would like to get a red form breeding project going in a couple years if I can. I got a supposedly red color form slings recently but I am not sure if they will turn out that way or not.
 

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I was able to breed only the "classic" one. The reddish one I've never found a male and now she passed, already.

I heard about them being from different locales too, but apparently, the reddish one is not so common in the hobby.

I believe they are different localities and should be bred accordingly.
100% agree with it.

The problem is that so many people over saturate, and over edit, their photos that you often don't know what is real and what has been altered.
Unfortunately, when I took the pics of the reddish one, I was still learning, and they were oversaturated, I wish I could see another individual nowadays, the result would be different (for better or worse, lol) for sure.
 

Vanessa

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Unfortunately, when I took the pics of the reddish one, I was still learning, and they were oversaturated, I wish I could see another individual nowadays, the result would be different (for better or worse, lol) for sure.
My mature males have been more red than my females.
Sub-Adult Male
Mature Male
And it wouldn't take much to make them look even redder in Lightroom.
 

Smotzer

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I was able to breed only the "classic" one. The reddish one I've never found a male and now she passed, already.

I heard about them being from different locales too, but apparently, the reddish one is not so common in the hobby.



100% agree with it.
Yeah they certainly do not come up very much in the hobby!! There’s not a lot of information on them either. Maybe one day we will get a revision or some type of further classification on these forms if indeed they are the same species but different localities.
 

basin79

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My lass is of the red variety and I DON'T add additional saturation.

Freshly moulted, in the sunlight. And I mean freshly moulted. Still wasn't hard. Not sure why she was even out.
1DDED07B-B8A6-4934-90DA-825EAF892ACA.jpeg 2A67FC59-2D52-4A5F-820F-3B487C5FA8ED.jpeg

Sunlight again
461E6A63-7528-4D3E-9C33-56772C55C19D.jpeg A3CBD40E-D712-4149-9A39-A1EA83C9C2DB.jpeg 6B07F759-EAA8-44B9-B7FC-31B5A72908A7.jpeg

I will add even though I've seen less colourful versi's compared to my lass I'd always assumed it was just that their particular versi wasn't as colourful not an actual variation.

So maybe the reds occur where there are more or a particular predator? Red = warning? An evolutionary adaptation?
 

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My mature males have been more red than my females.
Sub-Adult Male
Mature Male
And it wouldn't take much to make them look even redder in Lightroom.
Yes, they are more red, but they arent the reddish variation.

These guys are different, when you see one in person, you'll noticed right away.

Beautiful ones you have there.

Yeah they certainly do not come up very much in the hobby!! There’s not a lot of information on them either. Maybe one day we will get a revision or some type of further classification on these forms if indeed they are the same species but different localities.
When I first noticed the differences between them, they were all Avicularia. I thought something about this would be mentioned on the revision (where they were moved to Caribena) but there's nothing there, at least, there I can remember.

I wouldnt be surprised if they happened to be different species, though.
 

wesker12

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My lil versi sling that I raised from 2i to mature male looked very purplish when he matured (prettier than red imo). Versicolor is literally Latin for changing colors, I wouldn't be surprised if within the same species, multiple phenotypes for color variation exist. 20120716_170111.jpg

Also it's important to remember that the visual spectrum and how we see colors are very, very different from most other organisms and there are many inverts that see in different spectrums and way more or way less "colors' and variations of colors. If I remember right too, one of the most advanced visual systems I ever studied, was a predatory invert! Freaking mantis shrimps.
 

viper69

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The males I’ve owned were always heavy purple esp towards the rear legs, not at all red like below.

The 2 juvi female sacmates I own are red

Here’s one, but they are identical. With and without flash off iPhone Xs Max- fresh, about 2 weeks post-molt.

I can tell you decades ago females weren’t as red as some pics now. Could be digital reasons, not natural.

Let me know what you think.

Also it's important to remember that the visual spectrum and how we see colors are very, very different from most other organisms and there are many inverts that see in different spectrums and way more or way less "colors' and variations of colors. If I remember right too, one of the most advanced visual systems I ever studied, was a predatory invert! Freaking mantis shrimps.
All true, I’ve read research about their eyes. There’s a great article that shows us how they see.

But all that has nothing to do with how we see things ;)
 

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The males I’ve owned were always heavy purple esp towards the rear legs, not at all red like below.

The 2 juvi female sacmates I own are red

Here’s one, but they are identical. With and without flash off iPhone Xs Max- fresh, about 2 weeks post-molt.

I can tell you decades ago females weren’t as red as some pics now. Could be digital reasons, not natural.

Let me know what you think.
The purple ones (or, the "classics", as I called them), can show red coloration on her legs too, I believe there is some kind of polichromatism between these specimens. However, the reddish one is a little bit different, considering both of them are all C. versicolor, if we compare red x purple we can say polichromatism AND polimorphism are presented here. If you noticed, there are a few differences between the classic ones, but they are all similar morphologically. These reddish ones, however, are bigger, they seemed to be more "robust" and have more volume of setae on her legs. This is the observations I've seen in person, and based on a few pics I've also seen of the reddish ones.

Now, just to be clear, here's what I think:
I believe they both are C. versicolor. However, if the morphotypes of A. avicularia are doubtful, I dont discard the possibility of these C. versicolor variations being different species too.
 

viper69

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The purple ones (or, the "classics", as I called them), can show red coloration on her legs too, I believe there is some kind of polichromatism between these specimens. However, the reddish one is a little bit different, considering both of them are all C. versicolor, if we compare red x purple we can say polichromatism AND polimorphism are presented here. If you noticed, there are a few differences between the classic ones, but they are all similar morphologically. These reddish ones, however, are bigger, they seemed to be more "robust" and have more volume of setae on her legs. This is the observations I've seen in person, and based on a few pics I've also seen of the reddish ones.

Now, just to be clear, here's what I think:
I believe they both are C. versicolor. However, if the morphotypes of A. avicularia are doubtful, I dont discard the possibility of these C. versicolor variations being different species too.
Maybe, only genetic analysis will tell us
 

Vanessa

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There are a number of islands that make up the Antilles and Martinique is only one of them. And while they might not be as common on the other islands, has anyone determined 100% that they couldn't be on other islands? There could potentially be island locales other than Martinique to account for differences in appearances.
I worked with someone years ago who grew up on St.Vincent and he said that there were definitely tarantulas about. You can't discount them existing on more than one island in the group.
 

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There are a number of islands that make up the Antilles and Martinique is only one of them. And while they might not be as common on the other islands, has anyone determined 100% that they couldn't be on other islands? There could potentially be island locales other than Martinique to account for differences in appearances.
I worked with someone years ago who grew up on St.Vincent and he said that there were definitely tarantulas about. You can't discount them existing on more than one island in the group.
Thats another reason why I wouldnt be surprised if they were different species.

Lets say the red one locale is from a different island, there's a whole sea isolating them geographically so, who knows?
 
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