Can of worms in here ;) - Priceing low to help the hobby - ya right

[John Apple]

I think the one not getting is IS YOU.
they were ASKING ME, ADDRESSING A QUESTION TO ME, and I answered, them, not you, them.

you are the one who shuld leave me alone for Christ sake.
What -in-the-hell is wrong with you..? Really
Im not talking to you, im answering Jose, where diod you come into place?
whos the one who needs to state over and over his opinion?
Geez...

Fran....public forum as you have allready said man....your thought whlie entertaining as they seem to be now are just that...fodder for those that want to poke and stab...or as others would put it entertaining:barf:....
Francisco you need to stop the thump thump philosophy and sit back and relax my friend

 

[Fran]

Fran....public forum as you have allready said man....your thought whlie entertaining as they seem to be now are just that...fodder for those that want to poke and stab...or as others would put it entertaining:barf:....
Francisco you need to stop the thump thump philosophy and sit back and relax my friend

what? :?
...:?

 

[Moose9]

Wow, what an interesting thread, lots of drama and many "opinions". Took me awhile to read. Good points on all sides of this debate. If we didn't have the internet, this hobby most likely would not be where its at today.

I personally breed and sell roaches and tarantulas. I have been in this hobby (bugs in general) for decades. Started a web presence last year. I buy, sell and trade and for the most part my business sustains itself. No extra money for myself, just enough to keep re-investing and adding new species, supplies, etc. If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't invest the time that I do.

When it comes to pricing, as a buyer, I am looking for the best deal. Whoever has the better deal to suit my buying power, weather it be a well known dealer or just an individual looking to move there stock, I will tend to go for the lower price. If prices are relatively the same across the region, then I would go with a reputable dealer. When purchasing from individuals, I do look at reviews and such first to get a feel before I buy. After buying and trading with a few here and there, you get feel for who you'll do business with.

Another selling point with me is communication and of coarse packing. I even buy from those on the boards who have no reviews, why, because we all had to start somewhere. When selling, I try to stay competitive with others in the same field. It aggravates me sometimes too when I see someone sell roaches as an example, for a third or less than I am. But for one it is out of my control, so I don't think much of it. You go with the flow. Your business will always have ups and downs.

Again, prices are set by the seller. There is definitely no great amount of money to be made. I'm in the hobby simply cause I enjoy it that much and it keeps me busy all the time. My theory on people getting rid of sacs early on with tarantulas is that they don't have the time or food source to feed all those little buggers. Feeding slings can be tedious work and very time consuming, I know I spend many hours a week doing just that.

I buy up "lots" of slings when the price is right for me. I have the time and the food source. And regardless of the species, weather common or rare, there going to sell eventually. I mean, an example, they don't import 100's of 1000's of G. rosea each year because they don't sell. They may not sell here on the boards cause everyones got one, but they do sell. Most of my business comes from other sources other than the boards.

Now I don't have the overhead expense as someone like Ken, but none the less I spend money and allot of time feeding, maintaining and packing for shipping. People will set there prices for there own needs and circumstances. If we all had the same pricing, there wouldn't be any competition. On the boards here, it would come down to who knows who or who has the most reviews. In turn, the well established dealer would get the reward of more sales.

I am not trying to make any point here, just sharing my thoughts and experience in this great hobby. By the way, is there a pricing standard chart available somewhere? I have never seen it if there is. Was curious, thought I would ask.

 

[AzJohn]

Right. Cool.
Now please, my beloved dealer, dont call me an idiot in my face. And im not talking about Ken, neither Jose whom I have no clue who he is.

There are overhead expenses, there are reasonable prices, and there are greedy arse prices. Fine, I wont buy,BUT DONT TELL ME they are so high because they have to.

Who called you an idiot?

Really I don't pretend to know what everyones overhead is. It will very from person to person, and life style to life stlye, what you value your time as, how much you need to earn per animal. It a matter of opinion. There are no monopolies, there is competition. Some dealers will be higher than others. It's that way in every market.

John

 

[Fran]

Who called you an idiot?

Figuratively speaking,

 

[evicton]

As a buyer I go to the source that suits my needs after being burned once I am very cautious as to who I'm buying from. And more often then not I will pay more to ensure I'm getting what I'm ordering. This means I tend to stick with dealers and hobbyist I know.

One point that I didn't see though that I may have missed though is while dealers pick their price its the consumers who ultimately decide whats to high and whats not. This is true for every market if you want to look at an example look at all the threads on P. Metallica's pricing especially the ones from last year with all the negative posts there was on this species price you'd think they'd never sell but the fact is they do sell and sell well at the price which so many stated was to high.

A good example that has nothing to do with our market, Modern Warfare 2 just had its first map pack come out for the price of 15$ I think every major gaming forum was full of nothing but posts on how this price was crazy and Activision should be shut down for the crimes against humanity. This pack also went on to break the record for best selling downloadable content for a 360 game at 2.5 million.

Another great example of the consumer working against itself is the out cry against imported goods (mostly from asia). The fact is, if these imported goods did not sell better then there american counterparts companys would not offer them.

Products that are not selling cost money to sit on shelves and take away space that could be used for something that is. The one price that is really 'to high' is the one that people refuse to pay for.

 

[DireWolf0384]

I'll probably open a can or worms here too but seeing as I am disabled and can only work certain job due to my disability, I cannot afford much for my Scorps. I get my Scorps where I can afford them and if I can get into breeding, I want to provide the Hobbyist with healthy but affordable Scorps. I know there is overhead and all that but I plan on doing it for two reasons,to provide the hobbyist with affordable inverts but also because its something I really enjoy. But most big dealers and breeders do Mainly T's and not scorps so I want to get into a Niche and specialize in Scorps cause its what I enjoy and what my passion is. I want to provide people with a specialist in scorps.

 

[DamoK21]

I think the one not getting is IS YOU.
they were ASKING ME, ADDRESSING A QUESTION TO ME, and I answered, them, not you, them.

you are the one who shuld leave me talone for Christ sake. Why are you insulting me, why are you putting your nose into this when it was not about you? Your name didnt even appear in my 2 posts. Do you want me to draw you a picture?
Really
Im not talking to you, im answering Jose, where did you come into place?
whos the one who needs to state over and over his opinion?
Geez...

Why is everyone at Fran for ??,,, I apriciate this thing called "FREE SPEECH" and belive that, this should be forced upon many user's, as to much personal, digging, and slaughtering is going on...

You no from were im sitting, Fran is a real decent guy, Yea i admit, iv gave him a mouth full before, but once you kinda see what he is saying it all makes alot of sence, not to mention he a legend !!, just read his post's,, very educating...

so please.. chill and just lets all get on yea PLEASE, not much to ask, and in all fairness (and im not just saying this) my little sisters act more adult, more behaved, more understanding of others than what i see in these forum's... and there 8 and 10... Doesnt this tell you anything, i understand you have the right to defend what you belive in, But do it in a nice way...

I mean if i went out later and started fighting somone for the fact they say "This is to expencive" then you all would say "Childish", but if i sat down beside him and said, "ya no what it's ok, i understand what you saying but please if its to much, then dont buy it, im sure shopping around will get you a better deal".... Or somthing very similar with a smile and a relaxed enviroment, that way no one is affended.

not by saying "Oi you ***** i want to say this to you, dont like it you **** then **** off"

I think you should all back away from Fran, calm down, and lets all get on....

If not then, to be fair for everyone, and because fran is fighting alone here against many, Ill back him up on what he says, To make it a fairer defence on equal sides,

so please calm it, appoligise and what not, and lets all just get on please

thankyou;P:}

[EDIT] just to add i appriciate were youre coming from ken, and i hope for the best in the near future for you and every breeder out there. I hope for you ken that things go to plan, in the very near future, as i can understand and see, that you work very very hard for your buissness, and personal life... Just hope things turn out well for you my friend

 

[gromgrom]

i think it will be just easier for Fran to stop posting so much about "certain" dealers, and others to stop prodding him for it. We know some dealers have more overhead or charge more, but they have a reason for it. I think the original topic has been beaten to death and answered and the only reason this is still being posted on is off-topic discussion which needs to be taken to a new topic.

 

[Fran]

Thanks for the post.

I dont have any desire to talk about it, believe me.

I was just addressing Jose's question .

 

[gromgrom]

Thanks for the post.

I dont have any desire to talk about it, believe me.

I was just addressing Jose's question .

dont worry man. I've just seen it in both topics and I agree; some dealers have ridiculous pricing! Especially ones who ARENT on here.

 

[DamoK21]

dont worry man. I've just seen it in both topics and I agree; some dealers have ridiculous pricing! Especially ones who ARENT on here.

haha definatly agree on that one,, also the one's who DONT have a clue, "about anything", when it comes to T's.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Simple, Jose. The 4" or 6" Wild caught T blondi for like $200 or $240 (dont remmember), to me is INSANE.
The $280 for a 3.75 female Klaasi, is pricey, but more reasonable.
I would go with Kens at $250, but I would pay that $280.

I hope that helps.

PS: And I wasnt complaining. Really, just to remind you that since you have a public website and you put yourself out there in the net, you are subject to critics and you have to understand it. Not agree with it, but expect it.

Just a quick reply Fran, I dont pay the same prices that some of this other dealers do. I dont know you either, or 99.9% percent of the people on the boards so I have no comments to make to anyone here on the boards wether is good or bad. I based my opinion on this matter and so be it......


Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com

 

[DireWolf0384]

Ummm......Am I the only one that finds this bickering back and forth counterproductive?:?

 

[AzJohn]

I wonder why more dealers don't take part in forum discussions.

On a more serious note, what would you guys consider a fair markup? I'd be curious to see.

John

 

[Fran]

It gets pointless to beat a dead horse, but honestly, if everybody agree all the time there wouldnt pretty much be threads to post on, no one would learn anything and everything would be really boring.

I dont see anything wrong with saying what you think and discussing a matter ,wether you are the hobbyst or the dealer.

 

[thebugwife]

....Lurk....Lurk...Lurk....

 

[sharpfang]

Peering, Lurking & Laughing

Tee-Hee I got 1st Instar Chromatus Slings for: $0.02 EA.

DEAL OR NO DEALER That HELPS the Hobby, Right

BIG SALE On horse parts 2! - Jason

 

[OneSickPuppy]

Just wow. Ken hit it right on with one point ... just nowhere close on the topic itself. Dealer oversaturation has done a lot of destruction to the hobby. When I first got here there were hobby pioneers still in large numbers. We traded amongst each other and sold off our excess stock low enough where we made money back to feed our own projects we enjoyed keeping and learning about. Thanks to dealers trying to make a buck from something that was trading at a market sustainable price, the pioneers got disgusted in large numbers. Im not saying dealers are bad .... but really when are there too many? When they start driving up prices because they are fighting for the same stock and then having to mark it up higher to justify paying the bills vs supporting a hobby that was meant to do nothing but eat their money, the dealers hurt the hobby by pricing out people who collect large numbers of species and traded around the world to get in new stock. Large amounts of dealers are great for people who keep maybe 5 or less and lose interest quick in the hobby. Part of the fun of this for me was that I had to bide my time and wait to collect from either in or outside of my friend circle.

The guy giving slings away cheap ... that does help the hobby a lot ... just doesnt help the dealers bottom line. Few dealers are bringing much new in (im not saying all) ... just buying out hobbyists and reselling their stock marked up. Ever notice how we pass things along and then that gets passed along again through a network of friends? Someone turns a friends excess slings into a breeding project and then they get bought by others wanting to own 1 ... or 10. Im sorry if it hurts the dollar value, but this isnt about dollar value for me. Hate to tell ya this but I still give stuff away to friends on occasion for free. Do you think that hurts serious collectors or the hobby? Please tell us how. Scorpions and tarantulas are not mainstream commodities. This hobby was not about turning a buck when I got here. We loved our bugs and we loved trading them. We made lasting friendships in the process of passing along our joy. There were a few dealers and it balanced itself out. If this doesnt scale back on the profit turning were going to keep slowly going the way of baseball cards. History has a way of repeating itself and you can already see it if youve been here a fair number of years.

 

[OneSickPuppy]

It's better to support breeders for the great good of the hobby because they may also be importers. They may use any income they make to import new species for us and it can cost a lot of money, time and work to import.

HAH! Customs had a few of us hobbyists pictures hanging on their most wanted lists once upon a time. We used to do a few things the wrong way.

I wont mention names (partly because I no longer remember which ones and also dont want to offend any good dealers who I might not mention in this writing by leaving them out) but there have been some really good dealers here who were on that level of bringing in new stuff to the hobby and breeding their own stock rather than buying up and reselling hobbyists critters solely. And at that time the dealers worked hand in hand with the hobby and werent half of the classified section. Sure they had to price things higher than those of us did in the classifieds, but they were still die hard collectors who had a full time job with the hobby business as just that ... a hobby. They didnt cause prices to go up as they weren't selling more than 10% of the hobby.