Can of worms in here ;) - Priceing low to help the hobby - ya right

[Talkenlate04]

This is perfect example Jose. I have absolutely no idea who you are and I can't remember seeing your for sale ads or any other posts before this one. If I don't know anything about you I am far less inclined to buy from you, and in this case I have never bought from you because I never knew you existed.

 

[sharpfang]

Next Can - Spinich. Wow - What a Thread...

It's easy. If you have so many you can't get rid of them, keep them in a community until the 3rd instar or perhaps beyond, and allow them to cannabilise eachother until they're down to a managable number. That's what most breeders do!

Most will Not mention This....W/ out getting flamed....Happens in Nature...happens in captivity....How I was shown to do it, by respected Long-Time pioneer w/ T's.

If times are tough then business changes need to be made.

I agree w/ that thought, Way successful Long-Time businesses Survive.
Anticipate the Customers Needs...

Apology accepted I think?

LOL - I was wondering that 2. Who was the apology for David ?

You have to admit, Ken, that not all the dealers are like you.
You actually post way more often than most of the dealers here (right now, more than any of them)
What tics me off is when SOME come to us acting like they care so much and all they do is for our own good, when they dont even participate in ANY of the forums EXCEPT on the CLASSIFIEDS.

The reason is Fran: They Do Not want to be misunderstood....as Ken is sometimes....others as well ofcourse. I respect Ken's involvement in Controversal discussions, even if I don't agree w/ all his opinions.

oooh oooh can I be part of the drama?

Someone recently asked me why I'm not on the boards.
As you can see by the amount of post I've made, I don't post often, when I do its normally something I feel knowledgeable about. BUT i lurk continually. I keep up with the board on a daily basis. You know who I am and if you don't, I'm Ken The Bug Guy's Wife, Georgi. Here is a good example of why I, and other dealers do not post.

immediately followed by:
Deleted before I could post. I can't say that, I'm a dealer. I can't even be Myself, anything I say is just like Ken The Bug Guy said it himself, because of course every couple agrees with their spouse all the time...right :liar:

ROTFL
Ooooh - OOh - I can't wait 2 meet U....will U be at the meeting Saturday ?
Will U bring me some TP for my Laughter tears

A dealer who doesn't participate or contribute to the hobby except to post sale ads doesn't gain much credence in my eyes. Makes me think they have something to hide or only care about money instead of the growth of the hobby or sharing knowledge.

I hear what U R saying David......Though Not All dealers only care bout' $$$....
They do care bout' sticking around. Most of them. I'd like 2 see more Opinions shared also = Now THAT Is, good for Hobby

 

[BrettG]

Jose,if you could REALLY use the extra cash,like it sounds you could,you would find a way to make a few extra minutes to post more and get known by some of the members.I am not trying to stir the pot here,but does that NOT seem logical?A few posts here and there,and a few extra dollars in your pocket because of it? Just think of what 20 extra minutes a week on this site and others answering some newbs questions,or lending expert advice,could get you.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Didn't I just say I'd be more involved? The repetitive "insisting" was an attempt to keep on track with the Idea I was trying to convey, sometimes its hard to keep conversation on topic here. Which I insist on saying one more time.

I believe sometimes that Dealers stay out of conversations due to the fear of loosing customers.

Now I didn't say it was the best, right, worlds most wonderful Idea ever. Just that I believe it is one motive.

Ah! Then I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that *you* yourself stay out of conversations for this reason, hence my confusion.

While it could definitely be one motive, I think it could be that combined with being busy to the point that, if he/she were to post they would not be able to keep pace with thread topics because of the time and expense of running a business AND having a day job on top of that. Even I can't keep up with the threads around here most days. It's amazing how much this forum has grown.

And also, I didn't hear you say you'd be more involved. I was afraid I heard that you were saying that this is why you don't post and were giving up to going back to being a lurker.

I wonder at how many people there are residing in Lurkville who I would really want to get to know on the forums. But it's like being blind. You'll never know they're there if they don't post.

And just to clear this up.

Nope not what I said at all, in fact, yes we do use TP to ship slings in 2.5 - 20 dram tubes. We use PT for almost everything else. I have no problem discussing shipping options with a customer. We have a 98+% survival rate with the packing methods we use. Since September 2009 we have shipped over 1100 packages with live invertebrates and if you take a look at our reviews you will note that packing is among the most complimented.

Awesome!

I have just read over your reviews (all 21 pages, as per forum default), watched robc's video reviews, checked out sharpfang's pics (of the inverts, I mean ), and I am impressed.

ken's wife also described how they use 2-ply because of how much stronger it is. Or did you purposely miss that in your reading because you saw what you wanted to see?

LMAO!

Did you not notice by reading my post that I am not okay with TP being used as a shipping material at all, be it one or two ply?

Or did you purposely miss that in your reading because you saw what you wanted to see?

In my opinions there are HUGE diff between dealers.

In my experience; I have bought from Ken, Ken has bought from me. Ken answers your questions right away, hes up to discussion when it comes to learning, hes really nice and show involvement in the hobby.
On top of that his prices are reasonable.

Then you have other dealers where they NEVER show up on the boards, they never discuss anything, they never participate and they only advertize.Period.

Thats the difference.

Good point Fran, and I respect you coming in to post in defense of a dealer you have had good experience buying from.

I'm one of the other dealers let me start of by saying the only reason that I dont go on the boards is because I have two kids one that is Autistic, and we are having a baby this month so that's four humans besides my self and my spiders that I have to care for. If my prices seem to be high is because of the following I have a full time job I work 80 regular hours every two weeks + 30 hours of over time on top of that each pay check. My wife does not work at a regular job, she's a stay at home full time mom. I pay for everything at home we are talking about food, diapers, all type of clothing, gas, credit card bills, light, telephone, water, spiders, crickets, mice, containers, car insurance, rentals insurance, shoes, makeup, dishes, all type of soaps, contact lenses, dactors appointments, toys, vermiculite, replacing dead spiders, haircuts, children's motrin, car washes, entertainment, furnitures, crib, high chair, blankets, pencils, papers, ink for the copy machine, beer and rent that's right rent! I'm 39 years old and never owned a home it's obviously is to expensive here in the land of the Mormons or just about anywhere.

Everyone is having issues right now, financially and otherwise. Your problems are no greater or less than theirs. So there really is no need to post all that personal info... unless you are fishing for a pity-purchase.


And these days the last thing a potential customer wants to hear is how much worse your problems are than theirs, which is essentially what you are saying, especially when you get to this part of your post:

I like someone to start a thread asking how many of you and dealers live with their parents and dont have to pay rent or any of this things that I listed plus other things that people in this world have to pay just to stay alive.

And, just to touch on that point you made, I know quite a few people around here who have moved back in with their families so that they can help each other out. Hell, I've even heard of parents moving in with their kids lately, just to be able to make ends meet. Things are rough out there, and I have a feeling they will only get worse.

But... turning on other people in the hobby and blaming them for creating said financial distress is only going to hurt the hobby and your own reputation as a dealer.

Despite what it might seem, I am really not trying to attack anyone in this thread. I am just... irked at the OP, the same as the OP was irked at another dealer.

The simple fact of bringing this up, even if you are going to veil it with being "for the sake of discussion" (Puh-leeeeeze... ) shows very poor taste, IMO.

In fact... ranting about another dealer's price cuts "for the sake of discussion" sounds like it parallels the claim that selling cheaper slings is "good for the hobby."

now before anyone says it, yes, it does affect my business also and I do not deny that it aggravates me. When I see something selling for a 3rd of its cost because someone bred something they don't feel like taking care of till they can sell them all really aggravates me. I just bought so and so species for 10 dollars each and then a hobbyist goes on the board and sells them for 10 dollars each....how the heck am I supposed to sell mine now? Anyways I know I am opening myself up for attack here but hey its a good topic anyways I am sure it will be fun

It's 100% his business at what size and at what cost he chooses to sell them at. Just as it is 100% your business to do the same.

I personally do care when I see spiders that are been sold cheaper but what can I do about it, not a dam thing so I just go on.

Exactly.

Sounds like Jose here has some advice you might want to take to heart next time, Ken.

I think people have the right to shop where they want to go. The one thing that people need to realize is that some of the dealers are paying taxes on to run a business. Alot of you on the boards aren't, so dont just think of them as dealers that are robbing the public you dont know why their prices are higher than others.

That is too bad. But that's their/your problem. It comes with the territory and I suppose only *you* can decide if it's worth it or not.

I hate to tell you, but there are and always will be a lot of customers who really don't care about making or breaking your business in the T hobby.

On a kinder note, thank you for posting.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Jose,if you could REALLY use the extra cash,like it sounds you could,you would find a way to make a few extra minutes to post more and get known by some of the members.I am not trying to stir the pot here,but does that NOT seem logical?A few posts here and there,and a few extra dollars in your pocket because of it? Just think of what 20 extra minutes a week on this site and others answering some newbs questions,or lending expert advice,could get you.

It's not about the cash is about the time and effort that I have on my hands. You know Kelly and Ken told me the same thing I should post more but like I said before I work alot I cant always post everything up, right now my concentration is the baby that's coming anytime and everything else around that. I do spiders cause I like too not because I have to Ken and Kelly know this and out of respect for them and others I keep the prices up too cause that's where I also think they should be at. And no you're not trying to stir things up, as I'm writing to you all, I have to make time for everyone in this family so they know that I still exist..... Remember everthing that I pay for here is because that is just the way of life. I would like to go and tell companies that are selling the things that I need to provide for my family I want it cheaper cause ten years ago it was this cheap so I should buy it that cheap still. Do you know what they'll say to that! Ha, Ha, Ha, right..... I dont understand why this has to be such a big battle between dealers and hobbiest I'm a hobbiest and bought from hobbiest. I could see if some one screwed you on one your orders. Come on! are we that bored in life that we have to make enemies on the boards all over a dollar amount. We are not the enemies we are providing the product that you all need and you're not taking it because your to proud to buy from a dealer. Very stupid on the buyer and also when they have an eggsac to sell to a dealer just because, I dont like dealers they are all evil I would only sell to a hobbiest. Not smart, but hey that's what they want to do more power to the hobbiest right!
I spent alot of money in my life time buying spiders for example does anybody remember John from E-Spiderworld I spent alot of money from him and if anybody remembers him he was very expensive but I did not give a <poop> how expensive he was. I didn't care wether he spend alot less than what I bought it for I just wanted my tarantula that's all I care about. Maybe if some of you would have this mentality of not caring for the prices it would be easier to get your tarantula, I know for me it is. Late last year I came up with a Brachypelma Smithi 5.25" inches big female with the cage and water dish at a local pet store for twenty five dollars. She's now 5.5" inches big does that mean I should sell it for $35.00 just because I bought it that cheap. No I will sell it for the price that I think she's worth at the size that she's at. On the light of things I want to show you all a picture of her....



Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com

 

[Mad Hatter]

@ jose: First of all... especially since you say it takes a lot of time and energy to post... you should really start spacing out those huge blocks of text. I point this out because it makes it near impossible to read and most people won't.

Second... might want to quit the swearing. I believe it's frowned upon here.

I spent alot of money in my life time buying spiders for example does anybody remember John from E-Spiderworld I spent alot of money from him and if anybody remembers him he was very expensive but I did not give a <edit> how expensive he was.

Thirdly, yes, I remember that place well. It's too bad it's gone now. I bought many fine Ts from them...

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Ah! Then I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that *you* yourself stay out of conversations for this reason, hence my confusion.

While it could definitely be one motive, I think it could be that combined with being busy to the point that, if he/she were to post they would not be able to keep pace with thread topics because of the time and expense of running a business AND having a day job on top of that. Even I can't keep up with the threads around here most days. It's amazing how much this forum has grown.

And also, I didn't hear you say you'd be more involved. I was afraid I heard that you were saying that this is why you don't post and were giving up to going back to being a lurker.

I wonder at how many people there are residing in Lurkville who I would really want to get to know on the forums. But it's like being blind. You'll never know they're there if they don't post.



Awesome!

I have just read over your reviews (all 21 pages, as per forum default), watched robc's video reviews, checked out sharpfang's pics (of the inverts, I mean ), and I am impressed.



LMAO!

Did you not notice by reading my post that I am not okay with TP being used as a shipping material at all, be it one or two ply?

Or did you purposely miss that in your reading because you saw what you wanted to see?





Good point Fran, and I respect you coming in to post in defense of a dealer you have had good experience buying from.



Everyone is having issues right now, financially and otherwise. Your problems are no greater or less than theirs. So there really is no need to post all that personal info... unless you are fishing for a pity-purchase.


And these days the last thing a potential customer wants to hear is how much worse your problems are than theirs, which is essentially what you are saying, especially when you get to this part of your post:



And, just to touch on that point you made, I know quite a few people around here who have moved back in with their families so that they can help each other out. Hell, I've even heard of parents moving in with their kids lately, just to be able to make ends meet. Things are rough out there, and I have a feeling they will only get worse.

But... turning on other people in the hobby and blaming them for creating said financial distress is only going to hurt the hobby and your own reputation as a dealer.

Despite what it might seem, I am really not trying to attack anyone in this thread. I am just... irked at the OP, the same as the OP was irked at another dealer.

The simple fact of bringing this up, even if you are going to veil it with being "for the sake of discussion" (Puh-leeeeeze... ) shows very poor taste, IMO.

In fact... ranting about another dealer's price cuts "for the sake of discussion" sounds like it parallels the claim that selling cheaper slings is "good for the hobby."




It's 100% his business at what size and at what cost he chooses to sell them at. Just as it is 100% your business to do the same.



Exactly.

Sounds like Jose here has some advice you might want to take to heart next time, Ken.




That is too bad. But that's their/your problem. It comes with the territory and I suppose only *you* can decide if it's worth it or not.

I hate to tell you, but there are and always will be a lot of customers who really don't care about making or breaking your business in the T hobby.

On a kinder note, thank you for posting.

I know everyone has issues. People are asking why dealers are charging so much so I gave my answer to why my prices are the way they are. I get right down to the point. I'm not crying about my situation I'm stating the facts.....


Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com

 

[sharpfang]

Interesting.....

So their Prices being HIGH, Didn't keep them Afloat -Or- Did they leave 4 other reasons ???

Fact is.....We all Love tarantulas.....So let's go enjoy them :razz: - Jason

P.S. 2 All going to next saturdays T-Meeting....C-ya there! Gotta Go feed.

 

[Redneck]

Well.. Here are my thoughts..

Jose.. You personally choose to run a business that is not going to make you rich.. You choose to run a business that is time consuming.. In order for your busines to make you any money you need to be more active.. As someone done stated.. They dont know you.. I have never heard of you either..

There are a few dealers I know personally.. Well not personally but from the boards here.. Thats Ken.. Well nevermind.. I only know Ken.. He is the only somewhat active dealer.. I have heard of others.. But they never post..

I personally see 2 dealers that MIGHT have my business.. Thats Ken, & Paul.. Paul beacuse I hear nothing but good things about him & his prices..

Ken.. Because he is active.. He is will to take part in the hobby.. For example.. That one thread about the postage.. The letter he wrote out.. That was Ken taking the time to "help" the hobby..

For the statement about hobbist selling their egg sacs to make a buck.. I dont see nothing wrong with it.. In fact.. If I remember correctly.. I tried selling my G. rosea egg sac to a dealer.. No I trade to make a trade.. No dice.. Because they dont sell fast enough for him..

No need for names..

But from now on.. I wont try going to a breeder with any egg sac that might be produced in my care.. Why? Because it might not be a tarantula that is able to be sold for high dollar.. So.. Whats the point?

I have not problems with the dealers.. I do have alot of respect for the ones that actually take the time to "help" the hobby.. Helping the hobby aint just getting a tarantula that is "rare"..

Helping the hobby is sharing information with other hobbist and dealers..
Helping the hobby is being an active member in whatever community you are a part of.. Help the newbs..

If you are not active for nothing but to sell a tarantula.. You are only helping a certain aspect of the hobby..

If you think coming here and laying your personal business out is going to help you get business.. You wont get mine.. Honestly..

If you are worried that you cant make end meet with your own family.. You should probably not be a dealer..

Just my opinion on the whole matter.. Sorry for making this so long..

*Note* This is not a personal attack on anyone here.. This is just my opinion!

 

[Kathy]

Anyone want to sell me a b. smithi sling? What are your prices?

Wow, heated thread - good points on all sides - but the bottom line is a good combination of price/quality/service/reputation - that's how most people decide. It's not always about the price.

 

[sharpfang]

And your Opinion is RESPECTED by me....Red

I just PM'd "Jose" after his Initial posts, and said *nice* things....asked what he had to sell........

No Return REPLY.......Well, That won't get my Business

O.K. Now I am really going 2 go Feed - Later Everyone - Jason

 

[Mojosmf]

Sad but true.

Look, like ken says, the price of a p. metallica isn't high because there is anything special about them really, they are high because of the history of the hobby and how few there are, but in 5 years, many of us are going to still be in the hobby and if the price of p metallicas or really, any other t is the same price as a avic avic? or a t blondi is the same price as a p. irminia? things are going to take a turn for the worse, and there in turn Wont be as many of todays valuable species in the hobby because they will be worth as much as an easier to breed species and they are hard to breed. So why breed the hard to breed ones?


Look, this isn't just happening in the T hobby. its happening in the aquarium hobby, the reptile keeping hobby and in all other exotic animal hobbies. You should go post this on some more forums, I will spread it if you want.

 

[AzJohn]

Wow, people. Just a couple of things.

1. If you want to encourage dealers to take part in these discussions we might want to think about not flaming them when they explain their reasons for pricing stuff. Do you think they are going to change there mind? On sveral of the threads started by Ken latley the dealers have gotten into arguements about priceing. So why bother posting if all that happens is that the get into arguments you don't have time for.

2. Jose doesn't even post in the for sale section. What percent of his sales are made up of AB menbers? One person on AB not buying his stuff is probably not going to hurt him that bad. A dealer might be missing a great opprotunity for sales here on AB but it's there buiness and they will run it the way they want to.

3. The bottom line is this IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE PRICE DON'T BUY IT. I think we have to many Walmart's. We expect everything to be cheap. There are a ton of post on this thread explaining why prices are the way they are from both dealers and breeders. What else is there to say.


John

 

[Fran]

Wow, people. Just a couple of things.

1. If you want to encourage dealers to take part in these discussions we might want to think about not flaming them when they explain their reasons for pricing stuff. Do you think they are going to change there mind? On sveral of the threads started by Ken latley the dealers have gotten into arguements about priceing. So why bother posting if all that happens is that the get into arguments you don't have time for.

2. Jose doesn't even post in the for sale section. What percent of his sales are made up of AB menbers? One person on AB not buying his stuff is probably not going to hurt him that bad. A dealer might be missing a great opprotunity for sales here on AB but it's there buiness and they will run it the way they want to.

3. The bottom line is this IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE PRICE DON'T BUY IT. I think we have to many Walmart's. We expect everything to be cheap. There are a ton of post on this thread explaining why prices are the way they are from both dealers and breeders. What else is there to say.


John

Right. Cool.
Now please, my beloved dealer, dont call me an idiot in my face. And im not talking about Ken, neither Jose whom I have no clue who he is.

There are overhead expenses, there are reasonable prices, and there are greedy arse prices. Fine, I wont buy,BUT DONT TELL ME they are so high because they have to.

 

[Fran]

Fran, I remember you complaining about prices before on one of the threads that Ken put up, one of your post you put up a link to my Theraphosa blondi and you said let's talk about pricing. Well if you think my prices is to high why a day or two to days later you left me an e-mail wanting to buy a Bachypelma klaasi 3.75" inch female for $280.00 + shipping from me? I dont get it....

Simple, Jose. The 4" or 6" Wild caught T blondi for like $200 or $240 (dont remmember), to me is INSANE.
The $280 for a 3.75 female Klaasi, is pricey, but more reasonable.
I would go with Kens at $250, but I would pay that $280.

I hope that helps.

PS: And I wasnt complaining. Really, just to remind you that since you have a public website and you put yourself out there in the net, you are subject to critics and you have to understand it. Not agree with it, but expect it.

 

[Anastasia]

Right. Cool.
Now please, my beloved dealer, dont call me an idiot in my face. And im not talking about Ken, neither Jose whom I have no clue who he is.....

so who are you talking about then? what dealer?

 

[jayefbe]

Right. Cool.
Now please, my beloved dealer, dont call me an idiot in my face. And im not talking about Ken, neither Jose whom I have no clue who he is.

There are overhead expenses, there are reasonable prices, and there are greedy arse prices. Fine, I wont buy,BUT DONT TELL ME they are so high because they have to.

With this again? Last time you went on a rant about this you got a scolding from MrI.

 

[Fran]

With this again? Last time you went on a rant about this you got a scolding from MrI.

What is wrong with you? Could I address the people questions without you being up my butt?
Are you obbsessed with me or something?
Geez... Talk about minding your own bussines.

 

[jayefbe]

Right. Cool.
Now please, my beloved dealer, dont call me an idiot in my face. And im not talking about Ken, neither Jose whom I have no clue who he is.

There are overhead expenses, there are reasonable prices, and there are greedy arse prices. Fine, I wont buy,BUT DONT TELL ME they are so high because they have to.

Simple, Jose. The 4" or 6" Wild caught T blondi for like $200 or $240 (dont remmember), to me is INSANE.
The $280 for a 3.75 female Klaasi, is pricey, but more reasonable.
I would go with Kens at $250, but I would pay that $280.

I hope that helps.

PS: And I wasnt complaining. Really, just to remind you that since you have a public website and you put yourself out there in the net, you are subject to critics and you have to understand it. Not agree with it, but expect it.

What is wrong with you? Could I address the people questions without you being up my butt?
Are you obbsessed with me or something?
Geez... Talk about minding your own bussines.

Fran, pot meet kettle. You think dealers' prices are too high, we get it. You've gone on and on and ON about it. You refuse to listen to valid reasons for higher prices, you refuse to acknowledge standard business practices and apparently do not understand the concept of 'overhead'.

And yet you still feel the need to critique every dealer's business practices. This is their job, for some it's their livelihood. If you don't agree with their practices, then don't buy from them. It really is as simple as that. So why don't YOU mind your OWN business, and quit telling people how to do their own jobs. It has gone on ad nauseam, and we all get it. You're a hypocrite when it comes to pricing, and are ignorant of business practices. You've made that very clear.

And why is it, that if someone disagrees with you he's obsessed with you or is somehow trying to get up your butt? Wishful thinking on your part?

 

[Fran]

Fran, pot meet kettle. You think dealers' prices are too high, we get it. You've gone on and on and ON about it. You refuse to listen to valid reasons for higher prices, you refuse to acknowledge standard business practices and apparently do not understand the concept of 'overhead'.

And yet you still feel the need to critique every dealer's business practices. This is their job, for some it's their livelihood. If you don't agree with their practices, then don't buy from them. It really is as simple as that. So why don't YOU mind your OWN business, and quit telling people how to do their own jobs. It has gone on ad nauseam, and we all get it. You're a hypocrite when it comes to pricing, and are ignorant of business practices. You've made that very clear.

And why is it, that if someone disagrees with you he's obsessed with you or is somehow trying to get up your butt? Wishful thinking on your part?

I think the one not getting is IS YOU.
they were ASKING ME, ADDRESSING A QUESTION TO ME, and I answered, them, not you, them.

you are the one who shuld leave me talone for Christ sake. Why are you insulting me, why are you putting your nose into this when it was not about you? Your name didnt even appear in my 2 posts. Do you want me to draw you a picture?
Really
Im not talking to you, im answering Jose, where did you come into place?
whos the one who needs to state over and over his opinion?
Geez...