c. hainanus or e. murinus?

u bada

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
17
Well if @Chris LXXIX chimes in on your post of course one must tag him!

I'm not too worrisome on the venom thing but the other half is and there's always the chance that say a earthquake hits in my neck of the woods and high potency bitey thing running around wouldn't be a great idea for us or the neighbors... but that's how I think through things far in the future... on other hand, if I got it, it would definitely be in high tightly lidded security enclosure.

My guess is it would be WC. I just gotta ask the store owner.

... wanted to add in last post, I don't think I've even seen hainiaum at all available on sellers lists around here and I always seem to be drawn to what is rare and not as expensive, the combo definitely hits the spot LOL

oh but the e murinus lightning details are oh so interesting, but could get that as a sling anywhere it seems...
 

SonsofArachne

Arachnoangel
Active Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
925
Let me tell you, honestly I don't get all of this 'venom potency' concerns about the former H.hainanum. Yes, that venom is powerful, ok but it's not that the likes of the 'Orange Bob' (OBT), various S.calceatum etc are less powerful.
Do we actually know that C. hainanus venom is no more potent in humans than other OW's? I did a quick Google search and found no formal studies but the anecdotal evidence (including the one bite report here) seems to imply that it is. If you read the bite report the poster was grazed by one fang and had as severe a reaction to it as any other OW bite I've read about. Anyway I'd rather not find out the hard way.
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
5,666
Do we actually know that C. hainanus venom is no more potent in humans than other OW's? I did a quick Google search and found no formal studies but the anecdotal evidence (including the one bite report here) seems to imply that it is. If you read the bite report the poster was grazed by one fang and had as severe a reaction to it as any other OW bite I've read about. Anyway I'd rather not find out the hard way.
No one wants to find out the hard way, that's why bites and bites scenario/s should be avoided always. Here is full of keepers that were never tagged in years and even decades.

For the rest I doubt that C.hainanus venom could be more powerful than the one of a common, always available, dirty cheap S.calceatum.

Consider also that the average (and cheap and amazing) Asian 'pedes we keep, such S.subspinipes, are definitely more "dangerous" on that sense - I still think that a bite from those in a sensible area such neck etc could lead to medical bad news.

The whole C.hainanus thing went IMO a bit on the "myth" side of things during years but if you ask me the reality is that it's just the next highly defensive, fast as heck, OW Asian Theraphosidae.

Let's also consider that a single bite report is not that much, plus, as always, different people, different reactions, different pain level etc.
 

SonsofArachne

Arachnoangel
Active Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
925
No one wants to find out the hard way, that's why bites and bites scenario/s should be avoided always. Here is full of keepers that were never tagged in years and even decades.

For the rest I doubt that C.hainanus venom could be more powerful than the one of a common, always available, dirty cheap S.calceatum.

Consider also that the average (and cheap and amazing) Asian 'pedes we keep, such S.subspinipes, are definitely more "dangerous" on that sense - I still think that a bite from those in a sensible area such neck etc could lead to medical bad news.

The whole C.hainanus thing went IMO a bit on the "myth" side of things during years but if you ask me the reality is that it's just the next highly defensive, fast as heck, OW Asian Theraphosidae.

Let's also consider that a single bite report is not that much, plus, as always, different people, different reactions, different pain level etc.
Everything you say makes sense yet proves nothing. C. hainanus may be more toxic to humans than S. calceatum, or not, but everything I've read implies that C. hainanus is above the OW norm. But without testing on humans there's no way to be sure - mice deaths really don't mean anything - and I doubt many would volunteer. Now, if someone were willing to pay real money, I'm sure you could get enough people for a decent study. :writer::nurse: - :arghh::hurting::vomit:
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
5,666
Everything you say makes sense yet proves nothing. C. hainanus may be more toxic to humans than S. calceatum, or not, but everything I've read implies that C. hainanus is above the OW norm.
Yes, above the OW's norm, no doubts. Just like S.calceatum, as mentioned before and C.fimbriatus (that venom may affect the heart rate, rarely) yet I've never heard no one pointing out similar issues for/when it comes to this last mentioned species - aside the wise, general 'be careful' advices.

There's a lot that we don't know and that probably we will never know, because no one would love to sacrifice him/herself for the 'science', that's why the rule remains "don't get tagged" which is more simple like may seems, if/when the keeping is done top notch.
 

Vanisher

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
2,140
E.murinus. If it is a sexed female, that is. If it is unsexed, you can bet you'll have a mature male on your hands within one or two moults.
Mine is out every night except when in premoult, sitting at the mouth of her burrow sporting those sexy legs. I don't know much about the other species you mention. I don't say this often about a species but E.murinus is a must-have when you love Theraphosidae. Can be fast, but when established a burrow they get less flighty. Can work up quite a temper so no fingers in the enclosure ever. Venom is weaker than OW, but stronger than regular NW so still not a spider to mess with.
Love my girl to bits. :)
Do E murinus have stronger venom tjan other NW?? Never heard that!
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
5,666
Do E murinus have stronger venom tjan other NW?? Never heard that!
Basically every NW T's that isn't in the Grammostola/Brachypelma/Aphonopelma etc has (in comparison) a more potent venom, perfect examples are the Psalmopoeus and Ephebopus ones.

All of this "NW's T's weak venom potency" story is due to the fact that during decades those kind of weak venom (mentioned above) T's, were (and still are) evergreens, numbers talking. Add to that the always recurrent OW's venom potency comparison but trust me, no one wants to be tagged by the likes of an adult female P.irminia.
 
Last edited:

Vanisher

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
2,140
Yes, that is because Psalmopoeus sp are remotely related to Poecilotheria sp, thats why they have slightly stronger venom than other NW! But Ephebopus is not related to Poecilotheria! So i repeat my question! Why do you claim Ephebopus have stronger venom?
 
Last edited:

Andrea82

Arachnoemperor
Active Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Messages
3,515
Yes, that is because Psalmopoeus sp are remotely related to Poecilotheria sp, thats why they have slightly stronger venom than other NW! But Ephebopus is not related to Poecilotheria! So i repeat my question! Why do you claim Ephebopus have stronger venom?
If I remember correctly, Ephebopus has shared a family group with Psalmopoeus for a time but I could be mistaken. About the venom potency; there is a study on here that treated the subject... But of course I can't find it, darn it. Tarantula venom and anafylaxis isn the thread called, I think it was explained there. They classed E.murinus with Psalmopoeus in terms of potency. Maybe @AphonopelmaTX knows more? Or @cold blood?
 

Vanisher

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
2,140
Aha, ok! This was what i meant. Some sort of study! I will try to find it! Thanx! I will try to find it!
 
Top