C.Gracilis(cuban) or C.gracilis(florida)?

[Omelskitot]

can anyone identify if this is florida or cuban morph?? tnx in advance

 

[gromgrom]

there are no cuban "morphs", just varieties. there are many many morphs, and to determine if its cuban is apparently nearly impossible without a microscope or something. Michel will know, hes the one who told me the above basically.

 

[Michiel]

I can't tell you, because I don't know it

 

[Nomadinexile]

I don't think there is a way to tell. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been evolutionary changes in separate habitats. They are genetically the exact same. So you shouldn't be able to tell unless you are in cuba and pick them up off the ground, or someone trustworthy says they did.

 

[gromgrom]

I don't think there is a way to tell. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been evolutionary changes in separate habitats. They are genetically the exact same. So you shouldn't be able to tell unless you are in cuba and pick them up off the ground, or someone trustworthy says they did.

well from reports cuban ones are MUCH more venomous and some are parthogenic?

also, damnit michel! Thought you knew! lol

 

[catfishrod69]

looks like a florida to me...i had both and the cubans were tanish colored, and called Centruroides guanensis

 

[Nomadinexile]

well from reports cuban ones are MUCH more venomous and some are parthogenic?

also, damnit michel! Thought you knew! lol

Yes, I've heard the venom difference before grom, but what does that have to do with visually id'ing it? :razz: Outwardly, they should look exactly the same. Of course their can be color variations across habitats, but that also happens within habitats!

looks like a florida to me...i had both and the cubans were tanish colored, and called Centruroides guanensis

That's a different species catfish!

 

[gromgrom]

Yes, I've heard the venom difference before grom, but what does that have to do with visually id'ing it? :razz: Outwardly, they should look exactly the same. Of course their can be color variations across habitats, but that also happens within habitats!

I mean that the Cuban variety is reported to have much more potent venom and well as the rumor to be parthogenic or something, but be visually the same.

So the best way to test it is to get stung. :clap:

 

[Nomadinexile]

I mean that the Cuban variety is reported to have much more potent venom and well as the rumor to be parthogenic or something, but be visually the same.

So the best way to test it is to get stung. :clap:

I see! Are you volunteering then? :razz:

As for the parthenogenesis, that should be for both populations or neither.

 

[gromgrom]

I see! Are you volunteering then? :razz:

As for the parthenogenesis, that should be for both populations or neither.

some actual "scientific paper" stated this.

and nah, i'll pass

 

[Kris-wIth-a-K]

yup its FL

 

[gromgrom]

yup its FL

Can you share with us how you came to this conclusion?

 

[Nomadinexile]

some actual "scientific paper" stated this.

and nah, i'll pass

Right. But that paper didn't say that only Cubans do this, only that they found it in the Cuban population. Without testing a wide population of Florida, you would have to assume that Partho applies with them as well. If it does not, then they are different species by definition I believe.

yup its FL

I'm going to second grom here. What makes you rule out Cubans or El Salvadorians, etc.???

 

[Ecstasy]

looks like a florida to me...i had both and the cubans were tanish colored, and called Centruroides guanensis

I actually have a pair of Centruroides guanensis and they're two totally different scorpions. They don't even remotely look like gracilis, I can take pictures if needed.

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------

Actually, I remember Sam having posted pictures of the guanensis when he was selling them, this is what a guanensis looks like:

 

[Galapoheros]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymorphism_(biology) As far as I can tell, "variety" usually refers to the same species that have the same feature in common in a population, it's diff than the meaning of the word morph. Say there is one species that live on two diff islands, the population on one is generally darker, on the other island they are lighter, those would be two diff varieties. I think an example of a morph would be when a few Tiger salamander larvae or Spadefoot toad tadpoles have the genetic ability to develop large heads and mouths to facilitate cannibalism when food and puddles start to dry up, while others don't have that genetic feature, not expressed anyway. Are the ones in Cuba generally darker, or lighter? Whichever, I think then you'd call a Cuban variety or the Florida variety. To me, "variety" is used a lot more in a hobby, kind of ignored in the science world. I don't know much about those scorpions, just trying to get a better handle on the terms variety and morph.

 

[gromgrom]

they're varieties/populations, as they look the same. but according to reports the cuban population/varities are much more venomous and have been reported to have given birth without mating.

note: i cannot say for sure if theyre a variety or a population.

note note: Dont know how much truth there is to it. Could end up being like sculpts.

notenoteedit:

http://www.ntnu.no/ub/scorpion-files/c_gracilis.php

I'll be looking through those papers... this class is so boring I have nothing better to do.

http://www.sea-entomologia.org/Publicaciones/RevistaIbericaAracnologia/RIA09/R09-016-141.pdf

gogo translators

 

[catfishrod69]

so your saying that there are a cuban bark, and a florida bark that look the same? if so i would just call it a florida bark, cause the cuba barks i had even though, were a diff species, looked diff, and would be stupid to call 2 scorpions that look identical different...but was just what im thinking

Yes, I've heard the venom difference before grom, but what does that have to do with visually id'ing it? :razz: Outwardly, they should look exactly the same. Of course their can be color variations across habitats, but that also happens within habitats!



That's a different species catfish!

 

[AzJohn]

so your saying that there are a cuban bark, and a florida bark that look the same? if so i would just call it a florida bark, cause the cuba barks i had even though, were a diff species, looked diff, and would be stupid to call 2 scorpions that look identical different...but was just what im thinking

I wouldn't call them florida bark or cuban bark I'd use the scientific names. Bark scorpion is more of a discription of lifestyle and overall apearence than anything else. Their are several gunus that can be considered bark scorpions. Their are at least 3 species of Centruroides in Florida. The one species we are talking about is C gracilis. C gracilis has populations in Florida, Cuba, and Central America. They are the same species and should be nearly impossible to tell the difference. I have C gracilis from Central America and Florida. If I didn't keep them in labled containers I wouldn't be able to tell them apart.

 

[Michiel]

well from reports cuban ones are MUCH more venomous and some are parthogenic?

also, damnit michel! Thought you knew! lol

The problem with answering these kind of questions is that you need experience or comparison material from the cuban and other populations and I don't have that material, nor have I experience in keeping them

But, there are more knowledgeable people here I think Btw, my name is Michiel, not Michel....I am NOT French

@ Nomad,

PS. Being able to reproduce parthenogenetically alone is not a character in species definition. Most parthenogenetic scorpions have sexual and parthenogenetic populations: Tityus metuendus, Tityus colombianus (a sexual and a parthenogenetic population in the same country), Tityus neblina, T.trivittatus, L.australasiae has a parthenogenetic population in the Philippines and a sexual one in Australia. H.hottentotta has sexual populations in several African countries. etc etc...So it is not impossible that the population from Cuba is parthenogenetic and the Florida population isn't....

 

[Omelskitot]

lol cant understand anything hahaha :wall: