Bringing it back from the brink of death?

Okitasoshi

Arachnosquire
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I was wondering if anybody in this community ever found one of there spider starting to death curl, not already in it, put moving into a death curl, then brought them back to normal health.

The reason I ask this is because I bought a WC Cobalt Blue, and I changed him from his holding cell into a real cage, and a few days later I found him going into a death curl. At this point I thought maybe he hasn't been drinking his water for whatever reason, so I flipped him onto his back and dropped some droplets of water onto his mouth, then he kinda got angry and flipped himself back over into a Death curl right into his water bowl >.<. I fished him out immediately and placed him right side up on the substrate, and he stopped moving for awhile. Then I tried the "Raise the Humidity" technique I know people use for bad molts. So I put him in my bathroom and started the shower on hot water. the extra humidity made him move his legs a little bit, but still nothing, so I tried letting him be and he died =(.

Anybody else have this kinda experience and had the Tarantula live?

EDIT: And also post what you did to keep him alive
 

mr_jacob7

Arachnoknight
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sorry, i've only had 1 t, and she's still alive, and healthy (praise God). sorry for your loss, tho. :(
 

Nitibus

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Firstly, you shouldn't buy wild caught T's. Most are endangered. You never know how old they are, and they can come with parasites

Second : Cobolts are burrowers. Did you have enough substrate in there for it to dig ?
 

ironmonkey78

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if it was wild caught it could have just had something to due with getting shipped over here. from what ive heard most imports have a really high mortality rate. I got a WC cobalt, didnt know it was WC at the time, gave her a false burrow burried under the subsomewhat that she has adapted to very nicely.
my guess would be the stress.
 

cacoseraph

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Firstly, you shouldn't buy wild caught T's. Most are endangered. You never know how old they are, and they can come with parasites
er... this is not really a very good statement.

very few tarantula species, if any, are on endangered lists. this is not to say they aren't in critically low numbers... it's just that bugs don't make the lists as much as cute little birdies and what not. the genus Brachypelma from mexico is on the CITES list but you should, in theory, never even have the opportunity to buy a WC one.

a fair percentage the tarantulas that are in the hobby are from areas that are near expanding 2-3 world communities. for a lot of species, their main threat... BY FAR... is habitat loss. with habitat loss the species only hope for survival is captive breeding. in that case, as broad a genetic base as possible in the beginning of the CB effort is best.

while you don't know how old a tarantula is you can make some quick tests for healthiness and as long as you know about how big a species is you can kind of gauge how much life a spider would have left.

as far as WC containing parasites... that is actually fairly rare. something like 1:500 i would guess. i would be more worried about freaky mites or flies hitching rides. and typically all the parasites i have seen on the boards exit as larva and then turn into a flying insect. i can't think of a single time i have read or even heard about a parasite from a WC spreading to other spiders in the collection. nematodes, absolutely... but some big arthropodic parasite? no.

my main concern with WC is how they made it to my country. some have quite taxing experiences and are exhausted and stressed unto the brink of death... *typically* they look a bit crappy so you can steer clear if you have the opportunity to pick your spider yourself. i have to imagine most of the quality dealers keep an eye on their fresh imports for a month or three, otherwise they would be sending ppl spiders that potentially croak after a week or two.
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
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I was wondering if anybody in this community ever found one of there spider starting to death curl, not already in it, put moving into a death curl, then brought them back to normal health.

The reason I ask this is because I bought a WC Cobalt Blue, and I changed him from his holding cell into a real cage, and a few days later I found him going into a death curl. At this point I thought maybe he hasn't been drinking his water for whatever reason, so I flipped him onto his back and dropped some droplets of water onto his mouth, then he kinda got angry and flipped himself back over into a Death curl right into his water bowl >.<. I fished him out immediately and placed him right side up on the substrate, and he stopped moving for awhile. Then I tried the "Raise the Humidity" technique I know people use for bad molts. So I put him in my bathroom and started the shower on hot water. the extra humidity made him move his legs a little bit, but still nothing, so I tried letting him be and he died =(.

Anybody else have this kinda experience and had the Tarantula live?

EDIT: And also post what you did to keep him alive

i've brought back a few slings and adults from death curls. usually shipping induced deathcurls, but a few were my fault. i'd say i've been able to bring well over 10% but probably under 50% back, some from full blown curls in which they were completely nonresponsive.

i just dropped water on their mouth. i think that unless their abdomen is completely shriveled trying to give them food is likely just going to screw things up.
 

Talkenlate04

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I have and it was recently.......
I had a robustum decide it was going to go on a house tour self guided..... well 3 weeks later we came home from dinner and the cat bolted from the kitchen. There she was bleeding from one leg badly inflicted by the cat and barely able to move. I applyed liquid bandaid and sealed the would and placed her in an ICU for a little while..... that injured leg shrivled and will be cast soon I am sure, but she is back to her defensive self again and should be just fine.

WC is kind different..... there might be something going on that you cant see, mites or other unknowns. But try and ICU make sure she has access to water and cross your fingers thats about all you can do.
 

Arlius

Arachnodemon
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I've brought many a T back from a death curl, but never when I first received them or shortly after. Seems that in those cases, it was something more serious and there was nothing that COULD be done. If water and food and a proper enclosure don't fix em up, nothing will. (We don't really have vets for Ts)
 

Nitibus

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very few tarantula species, if any, are on endangered lists. this is not to say they aren't in critically low numbers.... the genus Brachypelma from mexico is on the CITES list
.

Do you know what CITIES stands for : CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora

Nuff said
 

Talkenlate04

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Do you know what CITIES stands for : CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora

Nuff said
But you were still wrong...... most WC taratulas are not endangered. Yet at least.
 

Nitibus

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But you were still wrong...... most WC taratulas are not endangered. Yet at least.
In 1995, all spider species of the genus Brachypelma (which includes the Mexican red-kneed tarantula) were listed on Appendix II of CITES. This designation is for species that are not currently threatened by extinction but have the possibility of becoming threatened if trade is not regulated. This includes the following Brachypelma species (from a query of the CITES species database on Order Araneae):

albopilosum (Curlyhair)
angustum (Costa rica red)
auratum (Mexican orange beauty)
aureoceps (Florida golden chestnut)
baumgarteni (Mexican fireleg)
boehmei(Mexican rustleg)
emilia (Mexican redleg) epicureanum (Yucatan rust rump)
fossorium (Costa Rican rustbrown)
klaasi (Mexican pink)
pallidum (Mexican rose)
sabulosum (Guatemalan redrump)
smithi (Mexican redknee)
vagans (Mexican redrump)

It is important to note that additional research on the status of natural populations of these species is needed in order to characterize the actual threat, if any, posed by collection pressures. Little is known about the geographic distribution of many of these species. It is possible that they could be negatively impacted by overcollection due to their long life spans, population structures, and sensitivity to environmental stochasticity

Please see : www.geocities.com/rainforest/9081/actions.htm+endangered+list+tarantula&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=ca

Though they may not be " endangered " the list above are threatened, or may be endangered. We know so little about the populations they may very well be near extinct.

In a way we are both half right.
 

Cheshire

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er... this is not really a very good statement.

very few tarantula species, if any, are on endangered lists. this is not to say they aren't in critically low numbers... it's just that bugs don't make the lists as much as cute little birdies and what not. The genus Brachypelma from mexico is on the CITES list but you should, in theory, never even have the opportunity to buy a WC one.

a fair percentage the tarantulas that are in the hobby are from areas that are near expanding 2-3 world communities. for a lot of species, their main threat... BY FAR... is habitat loss. with habitat loss the species only hope for survival is captive breeding. in that case, as broad a genetic base as possible in the beginning of the CB effort is best.
Nitibus, if you'd have bothered to read Caco's post you'd know that what he was saying was correct. The vast majority of tarantulas species are nowhere near endangered and those that are threatened are threatened because of habitat loss which CITES does nothing to protect against.
 

spidergirl07

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Feb 8, 2007
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i've brought back a few slings and adults from death curls. usually shipping induced deathcurls, but a few were my fault. i'd say i've been able to bring well over 10% but probably under 50% back, some from full blown curls in which they were completely nonresponsive.

i just dropped water on their mouth. i think that unless their abdomen is completely shriveled trying to give them food is likely just going to screw things up.
So you flip them on thier back and drip water on thier mouth and then flip them back over? My lugardi is all of a sudden decided to death curl and be nonresponsive but he he is still alive. it is only a 2'' sling. What exactly do you do to try and bring them out of a curl?:eek:
 

Nitibus

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Nitibus, if you'd have bothered to read Caco's post you'd know that what he was saying was correct. The vast majority of tarantulas species are nowhere near endangered and those that are threatened are threatened because of habitat loss which CITES does nothing to protect against.
Chesire,

I think you missed the point. The debate is over th nature of T's endangerment, NOT the intimate workings of CITIES. " Yes " I agree T's habitats are threatened, and " Yes" CITIES does nothing to stop habitat destruction. The fact of the matter is this : Why would these T's be labled as " threatened " for NO reason ? The situation may be worse then we think. It could also be better then we think. But to just assume " all is well " I think is enviromentally negligent. There are enough CB out there to keep every T keeper happy. Pulling from the wild MAY ( I said " MAY " BTW) further threaten a species that is already jeopardy.

There's LOTS of CB's out there, get one of those !
 

Cheshire

Arachnoking
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Chesire,

I think you missed the point. The debate is over th nature of T's endangerment, NOT the intimate workings of CITIES. " Yes " I agree T's habitats are threatened, and " Yes" CITIES does nothing to stop habitat destruction. The fact of the matter is this : Why would these T's be labled as " threatened " for NO reason ? The situation may be worse then we think. It could also be better then we think. But to just assume " all is well " I think is enviromentally negligent. There are enough CB out there to keep every T keeper happy. Pulling from the wild MAY ( I said " MAY " BTW) further threaten a species that is already jeopardy.

There's LOTS of CB's out there, get one of those !
And I think you missed the H in my name. I said the VAST majority. You only listed one genus. Genus pocielotheria is another example and maybe a handful of locally endemic US spiders.

There's a handful of genera in trouble, however the vast majority of the 600+ known tarantula species are not listed as threatened. You can't just list a handfull of spiders from one genus and claim that every single species across the face of the globe is in trouble...that's just not a logical arguement.

Remember, all of the species in captivity in the US were brought in from wild caught individuals at one point. Wild caught specimens do have their place in the hobby. However once a species is established in the hobby, then yes...captive bred is the way to go.

Pulling massive numbers of spiders from the wild (like with the genus you listed, as well as possibly G. rosea) may eventually cause numbers to dwindle until the species is in danger of extinction. However, if they're never imported in the first place then they'll never be in the back up gene bank we refer to as the tarantula hobby.
 
Last edited:

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
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So you flip them on thier back and drip water on thier mouth and then flip them back over? My lugardi is all of a sudden decided to death curl and be nonresponsive but he he is still alive. it is only a 2'' sling. What exactly do you do to try and bring them out of a curl?:eek:
actually i leave them on their back the whole time. i don't know if that is going to help, hinder, or neither the process... but the water drop will stay on their mouth longer than i care to sit around and i figure if they flip themselves over it might be time to put them next to a waterdish
 

cacoseraph

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i have never really believed that a species can be collected to extinction... except for *maybe* pocket species in special cases


as more and more and more and more are collected they become increasingly difficult to find to collect. eventually they will be too hard to reasonably collect for the natives and the "collection threat" will naturally abate. self regulation is a wonderful thing :D

plus... do you *really* think every individual can be caught?


also, the reason brach's made it to cites was mainly because the natives were digging smithis out of their burrows and leaving massive pits that started like, advanced erosion patterns that spread and in turn altered/destroyed more habitat.... it wasn't the collecting of the tarantulas, per se, that landed them on CITES but method of collection, as far as i understand


also, don't get me wrong... cb's are a wonderful thing... great for the hobby, great to make like, internally selfsustaining crops in our respective countries
 

Nitibus

Arachnodemon
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.

There's a handful of genera in trouble, however the vast majority of the 600+ known tarantula species are not listed as threatened. You can't just list a handfull of spiders from one genus and claim that every single species across the face of the globe is in trouble...that's just not a logical arguement.

.

Point taken. It's too bad that many of these 2-3rd world countries don't have the infrastructure to establish their T populations. We may never know the truth...

Keep in mind : as long as we have 12 dissimilar bloodlines of any species, we would have enough genetic diversity for prolonged captive breeding. ( I can't remember where I read that )

I agree CB is the way to go !


BTW sorry for hi-jacking this thread !
 

Cheshire

Arachnoking
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Point taken. It's too bad that many of these 2-3rd world countries don't have the infrastructure to establish their T populations. We may never know the truth...

Keep in mind : as long as we have 12 dissimilar bloodlines of any species, we would have enough genetic diversity for prolonged captive breeding. ( I can't remember where I read that )

I agree CB is the way to go !


BTW sorry for hi-jacking this thread !
Actually if someone were to capture wild populations of tarantulas in their home country and captive breed them specifically for export all over the world, we could probably curb any environmental damage done by collecting (populations or otherwise) and increase the diversity of species in the hobby at the same time while giving other people jobs in third world countries ;)

Just a thought.
 

rm90

Arachnobaron
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My G.Rosea is wild caught. =/ But healthy as I can see..
 
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