Breeding loans – Is it safe???

sensei129

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Aug 12, 2002
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I currently have 4 males that have morph to adults within the last 3 to 4 months.
I know at this point their life spans are limited so I like to do what I feel is right for them and also acquire some s’lings to boot.

Purchasing females every time a male reaches maturity can be very costly so I’m thinking about loans (50/50 split).

My question is has anybody had any real horror stories?

What concerns me is TRUST!!!
What’s to stop someone from telling you your male was killed in the breeding process by the female. (Yet your male is making the world tour on their behalf.)
Or
The female has molted before she had a chance to lay her eggs (When in fact you partner is sitting on a nice juicy egg sac all to themselves.)

By reading some of the posts on this board or others you can get a good idea of some of the people you can trust with no questions asked.

Sorry if I sound paranoid but the idea of shelling some bucks out of your own pocket for a T and accidentally wind up just giving it away would really burn me up.

Something like this may have been posted before and I just missed it or maybe there are others out there who have the same concerns but just never posted them.

Either way let me know what you think.

Thanks, Chris
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Trust...

It's all about trust. There is some good money involved when you breed tarantulas. This is what usually chimes within a breeders head, when they finally get that eggsac, that successfully hatches, and yeilds plenty of well-formed babies.
It's a catch-22 also. Your sitting on a male, that has a finite window of opportunity for breeding, either you don't send him out and wait for him to die, or you send him out and take the chance on a possible breeding. You also hope that the breeder is knowledgeable enough to actually breed them, get an eggsac and successfully rear it. Lots can go wrong and usually does.
I have males out right now, I even requested that one male be returned dead preserved, or alive (for collection purposes). Which brings up another point, when you send out a male, the person you sent the male to should be courteous enough to let you know the progress of the breedings. A two or more month time span is not acceptable. A month maybe, because I usually give my females a month of conditioning before I introduce any males.
I have two females at the moment that have bred from loaned males. One guy I give constant updates, the other guy calls me so much I don't need to call him.
It all boils down to trust, and to tell you the truth, chances for you males going out, getting the job done, and you ending up with offspring, is pretty slim.
Kelly Swift, I think, would agree on this. Him, like me, lost out on beautiful male specimens, by sending them to "reputable" big name dealers.
What species are they? Perhaps, I could point you in a direction.
john
 

Paul Day

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"I currently have 4 males that have morph to adults within the last 3 to 4 months.
I know at this point their life spans are limited so I like to do what I feel is right for them and also acquire some s’lings to boot.
Purchasing females every time a male reaches maturity can be very costly so I’m thinking about loans (50/50 split)."


It is inappropriate to purchase females for breeding. Females need to be acclimated for several months prior to breeding. The best viable solution is to send the males off.


"What concerns me is TRUST!!!
What’s to stop someone from telling you your male was killed in the breeding process by the female. (Yet your male is making the world tour on their behalf.) Or
The female has molted before she had a chance to lay her eggs (When in fact you partner is sitting on a nice juicy egg sac all to themselves.)

I have never heard of this happening, it is rather uncommon. Just like anything, you are taking a risk. I tend to trust people, you may have some Scorpio influences in your natal chart making you suspicous, but anyway it's just something you are going to have to take a risk about.


"Sorry if I sound paranoid but the idea of shelling some bucks out of your own pocket for a T and accidentally wind up just giving it away would really burn me up."

A male tarantula is not an "investment", rather a disposable tool for breeding (at least to the hobby). While I do not agree with that premise (concerning animals being objects), there is little else you can do with a male other than breed him. I mean, you can enjoy him for the year or so he has left, but rarely do people get excited when they get a free male without intent to breed. Of course, they could tell you the breeding was a failure when it really wasn't, but you could always post that the breeding was a failure and warn people not to purchase the spiderlings if the person had lied.

There is nothing stoping this person from doing this. Breeding loans are definitly a risk. You just have to trust the person. Make sure the person is a regular on a forum, therefor if something afoul happens, you have a place to report them.

Pauly
 

Mister Internet

Big Meanie Doo Doo Head :)
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I guess I've managed to read a boatload of T literature and miss a very important fact... MALES ONLY LIVE FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS??

I had no idea... I just thought there was higher turnover due to fact that so many get eaten in breeding projects... I didn't know they physically died from old age so soon after maturation... is it the same with ALL species?
 

Code Monkey

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Originally posted by Mister Internet
I guess I've managed to read a boatload of T literature and miss a very important fact... MALES ONLY LIVE FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS??

I had no idea... I just thought there was higher turnover due to fact that so many get eaten in breeding projects... I didn't know they physically died from old age so soon after maturation... is it the same with ALL species?
Yep, except for unusual cases, the moult that brings sexual maturity is a male T's last one; hence, the term: ultimate moult. In fact, 'couple of years' is an optimistic statement. Although you hear from time to time of a male T that has survived multiple years after its ultimate moult, and even a few that have undergone post-ultimate moults (and almost invariably losing their pedipalps in the progress, so no more breeding), the majority die within 1-2 years.
 

Mister Internet

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Originally posted by Code Monkey
Yep, except for unusual cases, the moult that brings sexual maturity is a male T's last one; hence, the term: ultimate moult. In fact, 'couple of years' is an optimistic statement. Although you hear from time to time of a male T that has survived multiple years after its ultimate moult, and even a few that have undergone post-ultimate moults (and almost invariably losing their pedipalps in the progress, so no more breeding), the majority die within 1-2 years.
Thanks for the info... so I guess one should look for females if one wants a "pet" or display specimen, and males are basically just for breeding... I get it now...

Originally posted by Code Monkey
For anyone who wonders why I have a toilet paper logo for my avatar: http://afrosquad.com/video/as_tp.mpg
My eyes. That was hideous.

:)
 

Immortal_sin

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My males ONLY go out to people that I know, or people that I know I can trust.
After you've been posting for awhile on different boards, you can certainly get a feel for people...trust your instincts...
There is a great review section on this sight too.
Currently, I have two males out on breeding loans, one male here on a breeding loan, another arriving next week, and a female with a hatched eggsac.
I keep in touch with everyone, I take lots of pics on my end also.
But it all boils down to trusting someone too.
I tried my hardest to find someone to take my mature male C brachycephalus back in Feb when he molted out mature...nobody wanted him :(
So, getting desparate, I would have been less picky as time went by. He's still alive and kicking, and making sperm webs, pacing etc. I feel really bad having to watch the poor little guy...
 

sensei129

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 12, 2002
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Thanks to all that have replied. I’ve kept T’s for quite some time and currently posses 31 of them. This is the first time that I’ve considered breeding them whether it is by my own females or on loan.

The idea of selling or purchasing CB over WC has always been an important issue with me. Since I fish yet know if I have a taste for fish there are plenty of places to go to satisfy that need therefore I support catch and release. I would think by now in this hobby there would be enough T’s in variety to keep WC at a minimum.

Some new questions as a result from your post are:

Unregistered -Which brings up another point, when you send out a male, the person you sent the male to should be courteous enough to let you know the progress of the breedings

No words ring truer, Unfortunately though my only loan so far went to someone whom I met at his booth at a swap I frequent ( I’ve asked around first and received favorable comments before committing to the loan.)
He has (No email address - unheard of in this day and age.) We did exchange phone numbers though ( No answering machine.) and told him to call if there was a problem ( So far no calls.)
I usually call the night before the swap to see if my guy is ready to come home

Chances for you males going out, getting the job done, and you ending up with offspring, is pretty slim.

Would anyone happen to have any rough odds or percentages on this?

Paul Day - A male tarantula is not an "investment", rather a disposable tool for breeding (at least to the hobby). While I do not agree with that premise (concerning animals being objects)

I must admit, I’ve seen some males that have reached maturity turn out looking better than their female counterparts.

Immortal_sin - I tried my hardest to find someone to take my mature male C brachycephalus back in Feb when he molted out mature...nobody wanted him

I myself have a C brachycephalus which is the only male out of my 4 that is currently out on loan. As a matter of fact the person I loaned him to has 2 females he wanted to breed him with. The last time I saw this person I loaned my guy to told me he had a couple of friends whom also had 2 females each that they would like to breed him with. I went ahead and gave the green light thinking this would better my odds on receiving s’lings but placing the original borrower responsible for my male considering I didn’t know his friends. He agreed but also added that he thought I was very trusting which sent up the red flags bringing me to place this post.

Currently the males I have available are:

Avicularia Metallica – I purchased a female for him and they have mated recently. Just waiting on the egg sac.

Ceratogyrus brachycephalus – Out on loan for 6 females

Grammostola rosea – Purchased 2 females for him but nothing so far. I think both females are in pre-molt. Also have someone requesting a loan on him but I’m still waiting for an email response back.

Aphonopelma Bicoloratum – Just morphed this week and should be available soon.


Call me paranoid but you gotta start somewhere

Chris
 

galeogirl

Arachnoprince
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Aug 15, 2002
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Holley,

I wish my C. brachycephalus was mature, I'm almost positive Marawuti is female! It causes me pain to know that we live so close and we'll be missing this window of opportunity.
 

Immortal_sin

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Oh, Galeogirl...what a bummer! I'm sure he'll be old and gone before she is mature....
You could always try though...if you want
 

Phillip

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hey immortal...

Hey immortal did you say you had a male brachycephalus? I have a mature female and she's ready to try with as far as having molted a few months back. I would hate to see him go to waste as well.
Phil
 

Immortal_sin

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Phillip..
he matured Feb 6 of this year, so the poor guy is OLD!
He lost leg III on the left side as well...
He's still sprightly, and eating a cricket every week or so, but don't know how long he will last...what do you think?
 

Phillip

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Ive seen worse.....

Well he's definately doomed if you just wait so my oipinion is that it's worth a shot. I have seen some pretty crappy looking males still manage to hook up but I have also heard that the males aren't viable after a few months so it's really a crap shoot either way. Still it won't ever happen without getting him to a female. I guess it comes down to how attatched to him you are. My opinion is that I would rather try and fail than to never try.
Phil
 
U

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Guest
Aphonopelma Bicoloratum – Just morphed this week and should be available soon.


Chris, I have several females........what is the leg span on your guy, my females are around 4 or 4.5". IMO, one of the nicest looking aphonopelmas.

as for breeding loans, I have several males here on loan (I had to give references for one person that had a rare and desirable mature male). at last count there are at least 6 of my males of various species floating around out there on breeding loans. I have had several of my males out on loan die and or been eaten before I could get them back and use them for my own females......I have had several loaner males get nailed by my females.....it happens. like Holley said you get a feel for who to trust.
Ed
 

Wade

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Sensei-

You might want to consider selling your males outright or perhaps trading them. The payoff won't be as great if the breeding is successful, but it's more of a sure thing and you're done and no nail biting.

Wade
 

sensei129

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Chris, I have several females........what is the leg span on your guy, my females are around 4 or 4.5". IMO, one of the nicest looking aphonopelmas.

Ed I would have to say he's aprox. 4 to 5 inch's himself

Chris
 

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Immortal_sin

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Re: Ive seen worse.....

Originally posted by Phillip
Well he's definately doomed if you just wait so my oipinion is that it's worth a shot. I have seen some pretty crappy looking males still manage to hook up but I have also heard that the males aren't viable after a few months so it's really a crap shoot either way. Still it won't ever happen without getting him to a female. I guess it comes down to how attatched to him you are. My opinion is that I would rather try and fail than to never try.
Phil
Phil,
did you get my PM????
IF not, send me an email...I will send him your way
Holley
 

sensei129

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My male had the same appearance as your female before the molt (as in the pic below) But as soon as I saw the color change after the molt I new I had a male.

I couldn’t check the sex from previous molts as I only had him for about 2 months.
 

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atavuss

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Originally posted by sensei129
My male had the same appearance as your female before the molt (as in the pic below) But as soon as I saw the color change after the molt I new I had a male.
seems aphonopelmas all undergo a dramatic color change when mature as a male......I had an a. moderatum male do the same color change.
If you are interested in a breeding loan with your male bicoloratum e mail me privately to work out the details.
Ed
 

Paul Day

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God, that one looks like it's about to pop! Luckily it's in premolt!!
hehe

Pauly
 
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