Brave Wilderness misinformation

[Staehilomyces]

Response to a video about golden orbweavers. Admittedly I did make a mistake, which is detailed in my pinned comment.

 

[Wolfram1]

years ago i quickly realized it was turning from an informational channel into a sensationalistic one.

LOOK AT ME GET BIT BY __________

The worst part about it is that i assume many children watch this <edit>. Anyway i have long since banned the channel from appearing with a channel-blocker.

 

[The Snark]

This is a little funny. These pics are my buddy and me teaching some children about the local animals. Outside of their web Neph's are so cautious and dainty in how they move. Not oriented to solid surfaces at all. This poor gal got her web trashed. The kids and us found her a new safe clump of bushes and she made herself at home.

Five year old kid, simply enthralled by her and how she moved.

The hair on his arm and the watch had her confused

 

[Poonjab]

Seem like you’re being petty or overly nit-picky of the guy. Of course Coyotes show is meant to be entertaining. He’s going to hype things up a bit. That’s what gets people engaged or their attention. I think he does a fine job overall. Last time I checked, it wasnt like he was making outlandish claims. Spider attacks on sharks, are far greater than shark attacks on spiders or some crap like that.

 

[ChaniLB520]

I think it's interesting how at the beginning, you kind of get the impression that he's gone on some sort of "search" and is excited to have finally found one of these creatures. From what I am aware, in places where large orb weavers are common, they are SUPER common. Like, every house has one, pretty much. I remember seeing Trichonephila clavata all over the place when I spent four months in Japan.

 

[Staehilomyces]

Seem like you’re being petty or overly nit-picky of the guy. Of course Coyotes show is meant to be entertaining. He’s going to hype things up a bit. That’s what gets people engaged or their attention. I think he does a fine job overall. Last time I checked, it wasnt like he was making outlandish claims. Spider attacks on sharks, are far greater than shark attacks on spiders or some crap like that.

It's not like it's hard to get people excited about spiders without fearmongering. And as for not making outlandish claims, he repeatedly made out the orbweaver to have a much worse bite than it actually does, even going so far as to compare it to a black widow.
In a nutshell, what's good about him isn't unique, and what's unique about him isn't good.

 

[Poonjab]

It's not like it's hard to get people excited about spiders without fearmongering. And as for not making outlandish claims, he repeatedly made out the orbweaver to have a much worse bite than it actually does, even going so far as to compare it to a black widow.
In a nutshell, what's good about him isn't unique, and what's unique about him isn't good.

It is hard to get people excited about insects. Spiders in particular. The average person does not enjoy spiders. And honestly.. if he’s comparing their bite to a black widow, then good. Maybe less people will be messing around with them. He has his place with his content, just like you have your place. As long as he’s not abusing the animals, then who cares what he does. There are far worse content creators out there in comparison to him. But for some reason, it appears you have some weird bone to pick with this guy.

 

[Slappy]

The average person does not enjoy spiders. And honestly.. if he’s comparing their bite to a black widow, then good. Maybe less people will be messing around with them.

In my experience, fear doesn’t do well with humans and it tends to exacerbate both the level and intensity of them “messing” with things. Many individuals who might be passive towards most creepy-crawlies will make exceptions for what is made out to be “dangerous”.

That’s what made Steve Irwin so great… he would sensationalize animals, but with such a positive and passionate attitude that folks couldn’t help but be in awe of the creatures with him. He would always try the point out what makes the animals great, how they’re helpful, and how to respect them (although he did harass some a little).
That’s why Steve’s my hero.

 

[Staehilomyces]

It is hard to get people excited about insects. Spiders in particular. The average person does not enjoy spiders.

Sure, a lot of people find spiders frightening, and aren't exactly fond of them. But not liking spiders does not equate to not finding them interesting. A massive spider being handled is going to get a child's attention more often than not. Quite a few times, I've taken big huntsman spiders out to my old school (I'm a part-time cross country coach there) and every time, without fail, I get surrounded almost instantly by curious kids wanting to get a closer look, asking all sorts of questions (which I'm more than happy to answer/explain) and even wanting to hold them (which I generally decline politely, more for the spiders' sake). Plenty of those kids find spiders scary, but that doesn't stop them from being interested.
I'm firmly of the belief that, if you need crazy, over the top cinematics and horror movie music to keep an audience interested, then you simply aren't a good presenter. If Peterson had sufficient knowledge, he'd be able to provide interesting information to keep people hooked; instead, the video was basically just him repeatedly talking about how nervous he was while the spider did nothing more than slowly wander around.

And honestly.. if he’s comparing their bite to a black widow, then good. Maybe less people will be messing around with them.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with that. Any educator worth a cent would be able to find a myriad other ways to tell people to treat spiders with respect that don't involve equating an almost harmless orb-weaver with a medically significant black widow.

He has his place with his content, just like you have your place. As long as he’s not abusing the animals, then who cares what he does. There are far worse content creators out there in comparison to him. But for some reason, it appears you have some weird bone to pick with this guy.

I don't have a "bone to pick" with him per se. My issue with him is that, unlike the crappy Top 10 lists I often react to, which I doubt many people take seriously to begin with, many people see the guy as an expert when he is far from it. Sure, the information he gives isn't as outright ludicrous as some other content creators, but it's well below the standard I'd expect from a supposed "expert"; at best, he sounds like he skimmed the first few sentences of a Wikipedia article right before filming. You'd think someone with such a huge following would put in a little extra time to make sure his information is more accurate.

 

[Poonjab]

In my experience, fear doesn’t do well with humans and it tends to exacerbate both the level and intensity of them “messing” with things. Many individuals who might be passive towards most creepy-crawlies will make exceptions for what is made out to be “dangerous”.

That’s what made Steve Irwin so great… he would sensationalize animals, but with such a positive and passionate attitude that folks couldn’t help but be in awe of the creatures with him. He would always try the point out what makes the animals great, how they’re helpful, and how to respect them (although he did harass some a little).
That’s why Steve’s my hero.

Go watch Coyotes videos, there is nothing as far as I’m concerned as him fear mongering. If he was telling you that the spider was going to break into your house and eat you alive, then sure…however what he’s doing is tame sensationalism at best.

 

[Staehilomyces]

Go watch Coyotes videos, there is nothing as far as I’m concerned as him fear mongering. If he was telling you that the spider was going to break into your house and eat you alive, then sure…however what he’s doing is tame sensationalism at best.

The Cambridge Dictionary defines fearmongering as: "the action of intentionally trying to make people afraid of something when this is not necessary or reasonable". Comparing a practically harmless orbweaver with medically significant Latrodectus fits that definition pretty well to me. The only possible point left for debate is the "intentionally" part; it's possible Peterson simply didn't know what he was talking about, which is still pretty poor form for a supposed educator.
There's also the time when he referred to Australia as "arguably the most dangerous continent in the world", which is ridiculous, and feeds into the already widespread hysteria that Australia is some super deadly place when it's actually very safe.

 

[Poonjab]

The Cambridge Dictionary defines fearmongering as: "the action of intentionally trying to make people afraid of something when this is not necessary or reasonable". Comparing a practically harmless orbweaver with medically significant Latrodectus fits that definition pretty well to me. The only possible point left for debate is the "intentionally" part; it's possible Peterson simply didn't know what he was talking about, which is still pretty poor form for a supposed educator.
There's also the time when he referred to Australia as "arguably the most dangerous continent in the world", which is ridiculous, and feeds into the already widespread hysteria that Australia is some super deadly place when it's actually very safe.

Pretty apparent you’re just being nit picky. There is a reason people find content like his more engaging. His subscription count compared to yours highlights that. People who want to seek out “scientific” content will. I’m not trying to throw any shade, but after sitting down and watching your commentary on his video, you’re being pretty petty over extremely insignificant things. Like I stated, both of your guys content has its place. Ones more educational, the other is more entertainment with educational aspects thrown in.

 

[Richard McJimsey]

it's like you're posting to market your youtube channel as the accurate alternative to Coyote or something

I don't know anyone who enjoys his videos, we just make fun of him. But we also don't complain about him, because we realize no serious hobbyist likes or believes anything he says.

"But what about people that don't know about these animals?" People with strong preconceived notions about things, ie brown recluses everywhere and deadly for example, aren't very likely to change their feelings to any strong degree because you rant at them about true facts. Maybe I'm lazy, maybe it's because of I've been doing it for so long, but it's just not worth it most of the time.

 

[Staehilomyces]

Pretty apparent you’re just being nit picky.

I'm simply holding him to a higher standard. If he was some random bloke with 10 subscribers, I wouldn't care nearly as much. He has a massive audience, many of whom see him as an expert. I don't think it's irrational to think that he should therefore put some more effort into making his information accurate, especially in the case of animals that are already widely feared.

There is a reason people find content like his more engaging. His subscription count compared to yours highlights that.

There are a multitude of additional reasons for his much higher subscriber count:
1: His channel has been around far longer than mine.
2: He does it full-time; I do it as a hobby, and have to find time for it among uni studies.
3: He can access a greater variety of wild locations; I can't drive, and can only make it as far as public transport, or my own two feet, can get me.
4: He has an entire team with lots of expensive filming gear; I do everything myself, with one fairly ordinary video camera.
Even so, his greater success as a result of sensationalism doesn't change the fact that it's spreading unnecessary fear about already misunderstood animals. In YouTube terms, Exotics Lair is FARRR more successful than Tom Moran or Birdspidersch; does that mean his approach is inherently "better"?

People who want to seek out “scientific” content will. I’m not trying to throw any shade, but after sitting down and watching your commentary on his video, you’re being pretty petty over extremely insignificant things. Like I stated, both of your guys content has its place. Ones more educational, the other is more entertainment with educational aspects thrown in.

Like I said, a supposed "expert" making elementary mistakes and greatly overblowing the risk posed by a practically harmless spider doesn't seem very insignificant to me. Then there's his centipede videos, which are all worded like badly written persuasive essays on why you should be scared of them, with a couple extremely basic facts thrown in.

it's like you're posting to market your youtube channel as the accurate alternative to Coyote or something

Like all my reaction-type videos, I post them as counters to misinformation. Many of my subscribers enjoy my response videos as they think they're a good balance between dry humour and educational content.

...we realize no serious hobbyist likes or believes anything he says.

And that's the difference. I don't aim videos like this at people who are already well-versed on the topic. I aim them at laypeople who might otherwise fall for the sensationalism and poor-quality info.

People with strong preconceived notions about things, ie brown recluses everywhere and deadly for example, aren't very likely to change their feelings to any strong degree because you rant at them about true facts. Maybe I'm lazy, maybe it's because of I've been doing it for so long, but it's just not worth it most of the time.

Even one changed mind is worth it in my eyes, and judging by the comments I receive, even with the small following I have, I've managed to change many minds.

 

[Poonjab]

In YouTube terms, Exotics Lair is FARRR more successful than Tom Moran or Birdspidersch; does that mean his approach is inherently "better"?

Here’s the big difference between exotics liar and Coyote Peterson. While they are both on the entertainment side of things, Coyote, from what I can tell, cares about the animals. Or at least pushes the angle that they should be respected. Exotics liar on the other hand doesn’t care. The animals are nothing more than a prop to line his pocket. That’s where things become problematic.

 

[Staehilomyces]

Here’s the big difference between exotics liar and Coyote Peterson. While they are both on the entertainment side of things, Coyote, from what I can tell, cares about the animals. Or at least pushes the angle that they should be respected. Exotics liar on the other hand doesn’t care. The animals are nothing more than a prop to line his pocket. That’s where things become problematic.

Exotics Lair is worse for sure, and I don't doubt that Peterson's heart isn't in the right place. The purpose of the comparison was simply to show that more subscribers =/= better, unless subscriber count is your standard of success.

 

[ForTW]

He is nothing near that fishing dude trying to tell that there are trouts in Saudi arabia swallowing you in one piece if you enter the pond of those 15cm beasts.

A biologist....or Entertainer, covering such a wide field of animals/places makes some mistakes or relays on older Information. Which is fine, therefor we have experts more specific.

 

[The Snark]

@Staehilomyces Two suggestions. 1. Give yourself a sensationalism nickname. 2. Don't bother responding to people who predominantly - almost constantly post criticism and negativity.
As far as Mr. Coyote is concerned, from a native viewpoint an appropriate name, a trickster, untrustworthy. Just imagine him in academia presenting a term paper to a professor in the vein he makes his videos -> there's the door. Consider switching your major to performing arts.
PS People love horse manure. If it's pretty enough and comes with a nifty sales pitch they will gladly eat it by the bucketful. However, the people with active frontal lobes are of much greater value if less numerous. Coyotes rarely get 30 seconds of their attention.

 

[ThemantismanofPA]

Go watch Coyotes videos, there is nothing as far as I’m concerned as him fear mongering. If he was telling you that the spider was going to break into your house and eat you alive, then sure…however what he’s doing is tame sensationalism at best.

I only want to throw my 2 cents in and by no means want to seem like i am attempting to "gang up on you" per say. However, Coyote certainly does a large amount of enticement of fear from his audience, for example, in his centipede video where he repeatedly mentions how terrifying they are, how he never wants to touch another, and how he very clearly exaggerates his pain. While some of his content is informative to the general public and allows for easy learning on some interesting facts, it really irks me how he seems to never mention how harmless the animals are as long as left alone. I think he doesn't go crazy with the fear mongering, in my public outreach job i have yet to talk to a person about centipedes, scorpions, many more, and not hear something about how "coyote peterson says thats extremely venomous and painful and dangerous". Its very annoying to have to reverse every stigma he has put in place against these animals. So. No, he is not going out of his way to explicitly state how terrifying everything is (with exception to the centipede), but through his hintings at, as well as his tone, its pretty obvious how he is "fearmongering". also sorry if this is jumbled, writing before i board a flight back home haha

 

[Poonjab]

I only want to throw my 2 cents in and by no means want to seem like i am attempting to "gang up on you" per say. However, Coyote certainly does a large amount of enticement of fear from his audience, for example, in his centipede video where he repeatedly mentions how terrifying they are, how he never wants to touch another, and how he very clearly exaggerates his pain. While some of his content is informative to the general public and allows for easy learning on some interesting facts, it really irks me how he seems to never mention how harmless the animals are as long as left alone. I think he doesn't go crazy with the fear mongering, in my public outreach job i have yet to talk to a person about centipedes, scorpions, many more, and not hear something about how "coyote peterson says thats extremely venomous and painful and dangerous". Its very annoying to have to reverse every stigma he has put in place against these animals. So. No, he is not going out of his way to explicitly state how terrifying everything is (with exception to the centipede), but through his hintings at, as well as his tone, its pretty obvious how he is "fearmongering". also sorry if this is jumbled, writing before i board a flight back home haha

Who knows. Maybe he’s actually just a massive sissy and has a fear of insects. I’m not trying to defend the guy. I just think there are way more content creators to be hyper critical of, compared to what Coyote is doing if you catch my drift.