Brachypelma baumgarteni/boehmei "Hybrid" - Mature Male

14pokies

Arachnoprince
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
1,706
You should post a few pics of MM boehmei and baumgarteni as reference to those of us not familiar with these species.. It would be very help full!
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
1,077
You should post a few pics of MM boehmei and baumgarteni as reference to those of us not familiar with these species.. It would be very help full!
I'm still waiting for my immature male boehmei to mature and unfortunately I have an immature male baumgarteni that is only 2.5" inches.
 

Walker253

Arachnobaron
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Messages
556
I hope that there is no consideration to breed this male. Accidents happen, great and enjoy, but I don't think furthering the bloodline and mistake is a good idea. With all the new spiderlings, someone will consider one of them pure, breed it again and the errors continue. We have enough mutts out there.
 

Leonardo the Mage

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jan 9, 2016
Messages
81
I think one of the main reasons that these hybrids keep popping up everywhere is the colours of those legs. The boehmei have much more red in their legs, and the baumgarteni have more orange. When you combine them, they get that gorgeous gradient down the legs from bright red to light orange. Then they can be sold as pure specimens, and the sell like hotcakes because of those legs.

I think one way we could keep these out of the pure bloodlines, is to give the sellors a name to call them. A lot of vendors don't like selling hybrids, as they have a lot of taboo around them. The seller then decides to sell it as a pure specimen. If they could sell them as a separate species- the bogarteni- we could make a stable breeding population completely separate from the pure boehmei or baumgarteni populations. Breeding hybrids with hybrids so the vendors can have those gorgeous Ts that sell so well, and no one will get confused and start adding FrankenTs to the pure population.
 

Bugmom

Arachnolord
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
650
I think one of the main reasons that these hybrids keep popping up everywhere is the colours of those legs. The boehmei have much more red in their legs, and the baumgarteni have more orange. When you combine them, they get that gorgeous gradient down the legs from bright red to light orange. Then they can be sold as pure specimens, and the sell like hotcakes because of those legs.

I think one way we could keep these out of the pure bloodlines, is to give the sellors a name to call them. A lot of vendors don't like selling hybrids, as they have a lot of taboo around them. The seller then decides to sell it as a pure specimen. If they could sell them as a separate species- the bogarteni- we could make a stable breeding population completely separate from the pure boehmei or baumgarteni populations. Breeding hybrids with hybrids so the vendors can have those gorgeous Ts that sell so well, and no one will get confused and start adding FrankenTs to the pure population.
No. No no no no no no no. Did I mention no? Cause no. There is absolutely NO good reason to make hybrids, but a lengthy list of reasons NOT to.
 

Walker253

Arachnobaron
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Messages
556
I think one of the main reasons that these hybrids keep popping up everywhere is the colours of those legs. The boehmei have much more red in their legs, and the baumgarteni have more orange. When you combine them, they get that gorgeous gradient down the legs from bright red to light orange. Then they can be sold as pure specimens, and the sell like hotcakes because of those legs.

I think one way we could keep these out of the pure bloodlines, is to give the sellors a name to call them. A lot of vendors don't like selling hybrids, as they have a lot of taboo around them. The seller then decides to sell it as a pure specimen. If they could sell them as a separate species- the bogarteni- we could make a stable breeding population completely separate from the pure boehmei or baumgarteni populations. Breeding hybrids with hybrids so the vendors can have those gorgeous Ts that sell so well, and no one will get confused and start adding FrankenTs to the pure population.
The flaw in your theory is the hybrid is worth much less that the purebred. Somebody who bought a hybrid will say it's pure to make more money. It's a bad idea all around, there is no way to really justify it. Too many ways for it to go wrong and there are too many mutts being called pure already.
 

Leonardo the Mage

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jan 9, 2016
Messages
81
The flaw in your theory is the hybrid is worth much less that the purebred. Somebody who bought a hybrid will say it's pure to make more money. It's a bad idea all around, there is no way to really justify it. Too many ways for it to go wrong and there are too many mutts being called pure already.
Just a suggestion. I'm as much against the tainting of the population as the next guy, I was just thinking it might help to control the problem. It could work in much the same way as how we keep the "Hobby form" B. albopilosum separate from the "Wild form".
 

ShaunMot

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 11, 2016
Messages
24
Just a suggestion. I'm as much against the tainting of the population as the next guy, I was just thinking it might help to control the problem. It could work in much the same way as how we keep the "Hobby form" B. albopilosum separate from the "Wild form".
I don't suppose you've got picture examples of these two different types of albo do you?
 

Najakeeper

Arachnoprince
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
1,050
I wanted to hybridize a B.boehmei with a B.auratum. It would be amazing to see the resulting spiders but the concerns against hybridization stopped me. Even if I labeled them properly, I am sure other people would breed them with something else and with the amount of potential slings, it would be too risky.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
1,077
Hybridization will still continue between baumgarteni/boehmei there is no stopping it. However if you wish to own a true species between the two I would certainly ask the seller of its origins for example have them show photos of both parents.

I don't care how well known you're in the hobby or seller I certainly will need proof that the babies came from the right species.

By the way let me make it clear I posted a photo of a hybrid mature male to show off not that the attempting breeding will occur by me.
 

Paiige

Arachnobaron
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
331
What a handsome guy! I have a juvenile female B boehmei x B baumgarteni hybrid that came from Petco (being sold as B emilia...:banghead:) so if Petco is selling them, I have a feeling there's going to be an influx of these hybrids into the hobby if there isn't already. They are beautiful and seem to be more brightly colored than either pure species. I didn't set out looking to specifically purchase a boehmei or a baumgarteni, I just took her home because she had been there for months, was labelled incorrectly and was miserable in the swamp of an enclosure they kept her in, but if I had been on the hunt for either species from an independent breeder I would definitely ask to see both parents prior to purchase.

I'm not upset that she's a hybrid by any means - she's beautiful, has a great temperament and is overall a really great t - but I certainly won't be breeding her and I like to know exactly what I'm taking home.
 

MetalMan2004

Arachnodemon
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
681
Very beautiful T ya got there.

Time to play devil's advocate...and I'm the new guy here so I hope I don't get chastized too much...

I can't stand when something is sold as something it isn't. But we can't forget that genetic diversity is the lifeblood of everything. It is the basis for basically any living thing that is healthy.

I understand a pure specimen is worth much more. The fact remains that there are hybrids out there and they aren't going away. If people sell pure species as pure and hybrids as hybrids there shouldn't be any issue.

Google the definition of species and you get something that says its a group of individuals that are capable of breeding. Yet science and the pet trade put them into ever tighter boxes of definition.

If you want a pure species buy a pure one. And yes you should be mad if you get sold a hybrid when you paid for a pure.

Just keep in mind that genetic diversity is about as natural as ut gets. Nature wrote the rules not breeders.
 

Paiige

Arachnobaron
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
331
Just keep in mind that genetic diversity is about as natural as it gets. Nature wrote the rules not breeders.
I would be curious to know if these hybrids are naturally occurring. I know baumgarteni prefers more humidity and the boehmei prefers scrubland and their environments are different but if they were to meet on some sort of middle ground as opposed to being encouraged to copulate in a cage, would we see a large amount of natural hybrids...
 

MetalMan2004

Arachnodemon
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
681
I would be curious to know if these hybrids are naturally occurring. I know baumgarteni prefers more humidity and the boehmei prefers scrubland and their environments are different but if they were to meet on some sort of middle ground as opposed to being encouraged to copulate in a cage, would we see a large amount of natural hybrids...
That is a very good question. When humans and nature meet you never know where the nature ends and the human meddling begins...
 

Leonardo the Mage

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jan 9, 2016
Messages
81
I don't suppose you've got picture examples of these two different types of albo do you?
I don't have a wild form, but I do have a 1.5" hobby form sling. The hobby form was produced in the exact situation we are trying to prevent in the above posts. Some idiots started breeding the pure B. albos with other Brachypelma, mostly vagans. The hybrids were introduced to the pure lines, and now almost all B. albopilosum in the hobby are hybrids.
 

ErinM31

Arachnogoddess
Joined
Feb 25, 2016
Messages
1,166
I do not understand the blanket stigma against hybridization. o_O

1) The issue of something being sold as something it isn't is totally separate from hybridization. As posts here and many other threads in this forum alone attest, many petstores routinely sell mislabeled tarantulas and it's not always a hybrid but one species being sold as another. THAT is a problem and a reason to only buy from reputable dealers.

2) Many of you state it as a given that the "pure" species are "worth more" but why should this be so? Has not out-crossing (hybridizing) and selecting for specific traits been used to produce animals and plants with characteristics we find desirable? So long as the health of the animal is not compromised (as has been done in many breeds of dogs), I see no problem with this. I agree that we should maintain lines of original species and localities but why not create new lines? That "hybrid" tarantula is beautiful without labels to create value or stigma, I bet most people would pay more for it! Give this line a name and sell it -- why not? Don't tell me about people crossing it and selling it as something else -- suddenly the person who just wanted a beautiful tarantula has the expertise to breed them and is going to set out to con those who want "pure breds"? That does not strike me as plausible.

3) Care should be taken to know what tarantulas are before breeding them and then this information properly conveyed to those buying the offspring so that people can buy color forms, species, crosses, whatever, with confidence. It is going to happen anyway and by making it taboo, it will only lead to falsification which is the REAL problem here.

And if anyone is going to sell slings or a female of this gorgeous cross -- I would like one! :D Don't tell me I have to make my own! :p
 
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