Black widow slings

Darkchrist31

Arachnosquire
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
71
Dear all,
Good day everyone, i had a couple of black widow eggsacs that just hatched. I had them hatched in a approx 18cm tall container, with a stick placed at a height of 3cm (to stop them from webbing to the lid).
However, these bastards somehow always find a way to web to the lid, which makes me so difficult and hesitant to open the lid because black widows are not native here, and I do not want any escapees.
Would appreciate some help and advice from everyone, I've tried the vaseline method but proved to be useless...
Thank you in advance! Have a nice day!
 

BoyFromLA

Spoon feeder
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Oct 26, 2017
Messages
2,488
It’s the other way around, I would say.

It’s not spiders that need to change their way, but rather, it is you who needs to get used to with their way.
 

chanda

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
2,229
When I've had black widow hatchlings, my solution has been to just leave the lid closed and let them eat each other until the population is reduced to manageable numbers. After all, they're predators and they're going to have to kill and eat something. What difference if that "something" is a cricket or fruitfly - or a surplus sibling?

Once the population has been reduced, it is a lot easier to keep eyes on them to avoid escapees.

The other thing I've done is try to use enclosures that minimize the risk of escapees. For black widow slings, I've kept them in 2-liter plastic soda bottles, with a bit of sheer fabric (like a piece of a nylon stocking) across the mouth of the bottle, held in place with a rubber band, then screw the lid on over the fabric. This prevents any spiders from getting into the lid itself and being accidentally "removed" along with the lid. I've also kept them in large plastic deli cups - with a small (approx. 1/2 inch) hole in the lid, stopped with a piece of sponge. That way, instead of needing to remove the entire lid, I can just pull out the sponge to add feeders.
 

coolnweird

Arachnobaron
Joined
Oct 20, 2019
Messages
512
When I've had black widow hatchlings, my solution has been to just leave the lid closed and let them eat each other until the population is reduced to manageable numbers. After all, they're predators and they're going to have to kill and eat something. What difference if that "something" is a cricket or fruitfly - or a surplus sibling?

Once the population has been reduced, it is a lot easier to keep eyes on them to avoid escapees.
This seems unnecessary and cruel to me, especially if the breeding was purposefully done. Kinda mean to bring something into existence and then make it battle to the death with its siblings. I would personally house them in something that can open from the bottom, like a flipped over deli cup or amac box. That way, they web to the top and you simply flip the enclosure over to feed/water. See Tom Moran's avic sling enclosure for a general idea about what I mean, though I would imagine you wouldn't need the second cup as a substrate damn with widows
 

chanda

Arachnoking
Old Timer
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Jun 27, 2010
Messages
2,229
This seems unnecessary and cruel to me, especially if the breeding was purposefully done. Kinda mean to bring something into existence and then make it battle to the death with its siblings. I would personally house them in something that can open from the bottom, like a flipped over deli cup or amac box. That way, they web to the top and you simply flip the enclosure over to feed/water. See Tom Moran's avic sling enclosure for a general idea about what I mean, though I would imagine you wouldn't need the second cup as a substrate damn with widows
Oh, I don't breed 'em on purpose! But sometimes a wild-caught widow has already mated, and they can retain sperm and lay multiple fertile egg sacs in captivity. (I've had as many as seven or eight fertile sacs from a single female who never had access to a mate in captivity.) I certainly don't want to raise hundreds of black widows in captivity - and I have plenty of them already (more than I'd like, really) in my yard, garden, shed, and garage.

As far as it being cruel, I disagree. They are predators. They are going to kill and eat other living organisms. Is it more cruel for them to eat another spider than to eat a fly or a cricket? In the wild, a great many of them would also be eaten - either by their siblings or by other predators. Why do you think spiders and insects have so many babies in the first place? It's because the majority of them will not survive to adulthood - so they compensate for high mortality rates with fecundity. It's no more cruel for them to be eaten by a sibling than for them to be eaten by an unrelated spider, a bird, or a predatory insect. It's simply the way the world works.
 

coolnweird

Arachnobaron
Joined
Oct 20, 2019
Messages
512
Oh, I don't breed 'em on purpose! But sometimes a wild-caught widow has already mated, and they can retain sperm and lay multiple fertile egg sacs in captivity. (I've had as many as seven or eight fertile sacs from a single female who never had access to a mate in captivity.) I certainly don't want to raise hundreds of black widows in captivity - and I have plenty of them already (more than I'd like, really) in my yard, garden, shed, and garage.

As far as it being cruel, I disagree. They are predators. They are going to kill and eat other living organisms. Is it more cruel for them to eat another spider than to eat a fly or a cricket? In the wild, a great many of them would also be eaten - either by their siblings or by other predators. Why do you think spiders and insects have so many babies in the first place? It's because the majority of them will not survive to adulthood - so they compensate for high mortality rates with fecundity. It's no more cruel for them to be eaten by a sibling than for them to be eaten by an unrelated spider, a bird, or a predatory insect. It's simply the way the world works.
Why not simply terminate the sac then, before anything is hatched? I assign higher value to insects I keep as pets than I do to feeder insects, and I would argue most hobbyists do. If we didn't, we wouldn't be upset when a superworm eats a molting tarantula. Obviously in nature things kill and eat indiscriminately, but I wouldn't feel comfortable forcing them to eat each other in captivity by keeping them together and offering no other food. To each their own, I suppose!
 

chanda

Arachnoking
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Jun 27, 2010
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2,229
Why not simply terminate the sac then, before anything is hatched? I assign higher value to insects I keep as pets than I do to feeder insects, and I would argue most hobbyists do. If we didn't, we wouldn't be upset when a superworm eats a molting tarantula. Obviously in nature things kill and eat indiscriminately, but I wouldn't feel comfortable forcing them to eat each other in captivity by keeping them together and offering no other food. To each their own, I suppose!
I have terminated many unwanted sacs, but sometimes they do hatch out - and when they do, the spiderlings have to eat, and something is going to die to feed them. That's how predators work. It's not like they are emotionally attached to their siblings or recognize them as anything other than a potential meal (or potential threat). They are not traumatized at having to resort to cannibalism - which is, in fact, perfectly normal for them in the wild. It's simple math. I could try to feed dozens and dozens of babies - many of which would still eat their siblings, because it is not practical for me to isolate them into individual containers - or I could let them feed themselves until the population is more manageable, then start supplying other feeders.

As you say, "value" is something that we assign to them. The life of a black widow hatchling does not intrinsically have a higher value than that of a cricket or a cockroach nymph or a fly. It's the decision of the keeper which bugs are "pets" and which are "feeders." I raise dubia roaches and fruit flies as feeders. Is it cruel for me to raise them, feed them, care for them - and then feed them to my pets? I also raise hissing cockroaches. They are pets that I bring in to the classroom to show my students - but when they have too many babies, the surplus roaches become feeders for my spiders, lizard, and other pets. It's not cruel. It's just a practical means of utilizing extra creatures that just happen to occupy a pretty low spot on the food chain.
 

coolnweird

Arachnobaron
Joined
Oct 20, 2019
Messages
512
I have terminated many unwanted sacs, but sometimes they do hatch out - and when they do, the spiderlings have to eat, and something is going to die to feed them. That's how predators work. It's not like they are emotionally attached to their siblings or recognize them as anything other than a potential meal (or potential threat). They are not traumatized at having to resort to cannibalism - which is, in fact, perfectly normal for them in the wild. It's simple math. I could try to feed dozens and dozens of babies - many of which would still eat their siblings, because it is not practical for me to isolate them into individual containers - or I could let them feed themselves until the population is more manageable, then start supplying other feeders.

As you say, "value" is something that we assign to them. The life of a black widow hatchling does not intrinsically have a higher value than that of a cricket or a cockroach nymph or a fly. It's the decision of the keeper which bugs are "pets" and which are "feeders." I raise dubia roaches and fruit flies as feeders. Is it cruel for me to raise them, feed them, care for them - and then feed them to my pets? I also raise hissing cockroaches. They are pets that I bring in to the classroom to show my students - but when they have too many babies, the surplus roaches become feeders for my spiders, lizard, and other pets. It's not cruel. It's just a practical means of utilizing extra creatures that just happen to occupy a pretty low spot on the food chain.
As I said, to each their own! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences 👍🏻
 

Darkchrist31

Arachnosquire
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
71
Ok guys, yall need to chill lol, I'm just asking for advice.

Yes I breed them intentionally, but they are not native here, moreover we do not have any widows here. So I do not want a few escapees to start an apocalypse here in my native ecosystem.
For those who asked why I breed them, I like black widows a lot, and I would like to continue keeping them instead of continuously importing them.
However, I can only handle so much, so cannibalism in the jar is definitely an inevitable option for me (which is what I plan to do anyways). I only want 10-20 slings to raise.
The problem is occasionally I would want to separate the larger slings (for me to raise) and when all of them webs at the lid, I can't do it as smoothly or safely and of course there's always a risk of escapees.

Relax guys, we're all fellow hobbyist who share the love for these creatures. No need to start a war over our difference in view.
Have a good day and stay safe!
 

coolnweird

Arachnobaron
Joined
Oct 20, 2019
Messages
512
Ok guys, yall need to chill lol, I'm just asking for advice.
Relax guys, we're all fellow hobbyist who share the love for these creatures. No need to start a war over our difference in view.
Have a good day and stay safe!
No one is being unchill? I think we had an extremely respectful discussion. Not all disagreement is confrontation!
 

Edan bandoot

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Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,602
I assign higher value to insects I keep as pets than I do to feeder insects
I think once you learn to appreciate all life and not just the spiders you think are cool you will come to see how it isn't cruel.

I think your way of thinking can lead to more cruelty than his. (Inadequate storage and care of feeders, who are also lifeforms that should be respected)

There's nothing wrong with the food chain taking place, they cannibalize naturally in the wild when they must.
 

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods
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11,048
I think once you learn to appreciate all life and not just the spiders you think are cool you will come to see how it isn't cruel.
A wake up call? Mom nature isn't all sweetness and light.
Or the basic Hindu take, the three inseparable aspects of all life, the trimurti, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, the progenitor, the sustainer and the destroyer.
Or the naturalist point of view, life comes from and relies on death and decay.
Or my personal point of view having done more mercy killings than I care to think about, if each death you cause doesn't hurt you are out of touch with reality, but the deaths you cause, or allow, are an intrinsic inseparable part of nature and the hurt shows you you're trying to be responsible along with being realistic.
 

darkness975

Latrodectus
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Aug 31, 2012
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5,610
Dear all,
Good day everyone, i had a couple of black widow eggsacs that just hatched. I had them hatched in a approx 18cm tall container, with a stick placed at a height of 3cm (to stop them from webbing to the lid).
However, these somehow always find a way to web to the lid, which makes me so difficult and hesitant to open the lid because black widows are not native here, and I do not want any escapees.
Would appreciate some help and advice from everyone, I've tried the vaseline method but proved to be useless...
Thank you in advance! Have a nice day!
Mine always manage to do that too.
 

Albireo Wulfbooper

Arachnoprince
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
1,606
Moral discussion aside, have you tried using inverted enclosures? For animals that tend to web up high, it can be easier to have an enclosure that separates closer to the bottom.
Additionally, when you open the enclosure for feeding, it's prudent to first place it inside a large plastic tub (or even in the bathtub) to make it easier to find and contain any escapees.
 

Darkchrist31

Arachnosquire
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
71
Moral discussion aside, have you tried using inverted enclosures? For animals that tend to web up high, it can be easier to have an enclosure that separates closer to the bottom.
Additionally, when you open the enclosure for feeding, it's prudent to first place it inside a large plastic tub (or even in the bathtub) to make it easier to find and contain any escapees.
I guess we all learn something on the way. For the remaining eggsacs, I taped some sticks at the bottom of the container, hang the eggsac to it, and then invert the container so that it is opened from the bottom. Hope it'll work!
Thank you for the advice!

Mine always manage to do that too.
Sneaky lil bastards aren't they XD
 

Cecelias lair

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Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
105
You can house them in a jar upside down. That way you open the lid from the bottom and they'll all stay at the top. I've found this a handy way to keep web dwellers. And also makes it so much easier to clean up their food when they drop them.
 
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