Biodiverse/Vivarium Enclosure - Singapore Blue

Mafles

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I've read through quite a few threads about this, and it seems to be evenly split for the most part.

I enjoy plants and tarantulas, so I was looking for ways to combine the two. I understand that vivariums would not be ideal for a lot of tarantula species. I thought a Singapore Blue may be one that would be applicable. I know Singapore Blues are an advanced level species and be can be very skittish and defensive, so doing enclose maintenance would probably be pretty difficult considering all of the things that can go wrong with a biodiverse enclosure (mold).

One of the major issues for a biodiverse enclosure would be the amount of moisture needed. I though of getting a bigger enclosure >18x18x24 and setting up some misters to go off once a day for 10-15 seconds. From the research I've done, I've seen that these tarantulas stick to their homes more often than not. Considering that it rains almost every other day in Singapore and Malaysia, would that amount of water be harmful to a Singapore Blue?

If I were to use an ExoTerra enclosure with this type of setup up, would air flow be good enough?

I have no real interest in keeping any amphibians or reptiles, so I'm really hoping there is a species of tarantula that would be acceptable of this type of environment.
 

viper69

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One of the major issues for a biodiverse enclosure would be the amount of moisture needed.
More trouble than it's worth with the species you mentioned. I've owned them.

setting up some misters to go off once a day for 10-15 seconds
I knew someone on here that used misters for a terrestrial NW species. It worked quite well for him.

In your case it would be trial and error.

The thing you have to remember is that while ExoTerra provides proper flow for Avics (no one is using misters) as an example, once you ad misters it may not be enough. You would likely need a good ventilation method, such as fans.

The trick with humidity isn't water, it's making sure there is proper ventilation so the air doesn't get stagnant. Avics don't do well in such conditions, I highly doubt this species would either, despite their need for a bit more moisture than most species.

I've been in tropical rainforests- they don't smell stagnant, there's a lot of mass air transfer. Which is why Avics aren't dropping from trees :cool:

BUT I could be wrong, and maybe they would thrive with the proper ventilation.

They do stick to their homes, they make elaborate crazy shaped tunnels if you give them enough depth.

Also, you are talking about a large, nervous Asian species- they make African OWs look slow to be honest. They are exceedingly nimble. The further east you move across the globe, the faster and more unpredictable the species.

A setup that you described is extremely small from a "have to move my hand out of the way" perspective. If it wants to a good sized adult will be on your hand/arm before you have time to do anything.

IF you do it, I'd love to see pics and hear how it is going.
 

Mafles

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The thing you have to remember is that while ExoTerra provides proper flow for Avics (no one is using misters) as an example, once you ad misters it may not be enough. You would likely need a good ventilation method, such as fans.

The trick with humidity isn't water, it's making sure there is proper ventilation so the air doesn't get stagnant. Avics don't do well in such conditions, I highly doubt this species would either, despite their need for a bit more moisture than most species.

I've been in tropical rainforests- they don't smell stagnant, there's a lot of mass air transfer. Which is why Avics aren't dropping from trees :cool:

BUT I could be wrong, and maybe they would thrive with the proper ventilation.
Thanks for the reply, Viper96.

I would probably get the 24x18x36 medium enclosure or larger and have someone drill some holes in the sides. I'd use some mesh and pvc to be sure that the fans are an inch or so away from the opening. I've read about mesh not being ideal as some tarantulas can get stuck on them, so I may need to find some alternatives. I'm going to start researching what the quietest fans would be.

More trouble than it's worth with the species you mentioned. I've owned them.

Also, you are talking about a large, nervous Asian species- they make African OWs look slow to be honest. They are exceedingly nimble. The further east you move across the globe, the faster and more unpredictable the species.

More trouble than it's worth with the species you mentioned. I've owned them.
Based on what you said, the quickness of the Singapore Blue makes it a poor choice for this type of setup even with precautions (catch-cup, gloves, tweezers, etc.). Do you believe a C. Versicolor would be a good species? From my research, they're mostly docile but also can bolt. I've also read that air flow is super important, as the stagnant air will lead to death. I'd also have to eliminate the misters and just stick to a handheld mister. I've also read that P. Metallicas are also pretty docile, fast, and prefer to hide, but a bite from one wouldn't be too pleasant. If a biodiverse system is done right, there shouldn't be much maintenance other than occasional plant maintenance and molt removal. Granted, that is a big if. Do you have any recommendations for any other species that might be better for this setup?

I've rethought the fans. Instead of mesh, I'd have someone drill (if glass enclosure) multiple small holes, then attach the pic and fan. Although with the top and bottom vents, small ventilation holes may be adequate without the fans. Also, more research shows that misters won't be necessary either, as an occasional mister will be more than enough.

Some other searches revealed that a T. stirmi might also be really good, but I want to exhaust all arboreal options first.
 
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Dorifto

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Hi maffle, I have installed a misting sistem too, I forget to mention it in the PM. You don't need to spend too much to make one

I suggest you the glass enclosures instead of the exo terras, I had both and are night and day. Glass ones are also a lot cheaper and you don't need to mod them.

Old exo terra and the new ones. Also you can se the misting sistem and the java moss growing on the background. IMG_20200404_085402.jpg

IMG_20180822_224105.jpg
 

Mafles

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Awesome, thanks, Dorifto! Do you have any recommendation for a Tarantula species?
 

viper69

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Awesome, thanks, Dorifto! Do you have any recommendation for a Tarantula species?
The person who I referenced sorta, with the misters, had a T stirmi.

Could you use Avics-- not worth it. You might kill it in the process of learning

Most people don't do this because it's easier.

There is a person with T seladonia on here that uses ferns if I recall for plants. He says pothos (usually good choice for vives) isn't good because of its growth rate too much to manage.

Myself, I've gone the easy route because I don't have the time, and dont want to kill a T hah.

But if you do it, please post.

Hi maffle, I have installed a misting sistem too, I forget to mention it in the PM. You don't need to spend too much to make one

I suggest you the glass enclosures instead of the exo terras, I had both and are night and day. Glass ones are also a lot cheaper and you don't need to mod them.

Old exo terra and the new ones. Also you can se the misting sistem and the java moss growing on the background. View attachment 339177

View attachment 339176

What species of T is living in your vive??
 

Mafles

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The person who I referenced sorta, with the misters, had a T stirmi.

Could you use Avics-- not worth it. You might kill it in the process of learning

Most people don't do this because it's easier.

There is a person with T seladonia on here that uses ferns if I recall for plants. He says pothos (usually good choice for vives) isn't good because of its growth rate too much to manage.

Myself, I've gone the easy route because I don't have the time, and dont want to kill a T hah.

But if you do it, please post.
I’ll send you a message when I finally get to it. It’ll be in a couple years as I’m leaving for the Army, and I have about two or three years before I am settled enough to have any enclosure. I’m going to use the time to research as much as possible. Do you have any experience with P. metallicas or T.stirmis?

If I were to place two very low rpm fans near the substrate (in and out) and one at the top (out) and a fan controller, do you think the air flow would stress out the tarantula?
 
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cold blood

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violaceopes would be a species that should do well in a planted terrarium as they are very moisture dependent. But i wouldnt want to work on plant grooming or anything like that with a big violaceopes roaming the area, even if it is in a burrow .

A versi, IMO, would be a bad choice....best to keep them predominantly dry.

No t needs a misting system....heck, no t really needs to be misted...ever. Pouring water onto the sub and keeping a water dish is more advisable and effective. Leave the mist systems to the amphibian keepers.
 

Mafles

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violaceopes would be a species that should do well in a planted terrarium as they are very moisture dependent. But i wouldnt want to work on plant grooming or anything like that with a big violaceopes roaming the area, even if it is in a burrow .

A versi, IMO, would be a bad choice....best to keep them predominantly dry.

No t needs a misting system....heck, no t really needs to be misted...ever. Pouring water onto the sub and keeping a water dish is more advisable and effective. Leave the mist systems to the amphibian keepers.
Hi, cold blood. I appreciate the message and the recommendation for the tarantula species. My main priority would be to make the prospective hollow completely waterproof and set in a way to protect the interior from direct contact with water. As for the misters, I've read that they temporarily increase humidity. If they were hooked up to a hydrometer as in Dorifto's enclosure, wouldn't that create a more consistent humid environment outside of getting a humidifier?

If I choose to pursue this setup, it would be at least four months before any tarantula would actually live in it. I'd need to stabilize heat/humidity/moisture levels and to let the plants take root.

My first search lead me to the Singapore Blue as you recommended. Considering it rains almost every other day in Singapore, would this species of tarantula mind the moist environment you'd get from using the misters? In response to viper69's thoughts on safety, would a piece of Tupperware or similar secured to the opening of the tarantula's burrow help negate any safety risks when doing anything in the enclosure?

I've owned an L. klugi and L. parahybana. Both were joys to own and died of old age. This would be my first OW and arboreal tarantula. Considering these facts, an O. violaceopes may be a little to temperamental for me (especially after watching the video I linked above). P. Metallicas also hail from moist environments. My research shows that, while they are also very fast and defensive, they tend to hide more. Do you have any experience with P. metallicas?
 
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viper69

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This would be my first OW and arboreal tarantula.
Generally speaking, the two of those put together is a bad combination as a first OW. When you throw in those 2 and Asian, that's even worse. That's why many people suggest terrestrial African species.

The cover on the hide is a good idea, assuming it takes to that hide, can't predict that.

If you need help on such a setup you should head over the frog forum, diff site, they deal in PDFs exclusively, those guys know all the ins/outs of vive setup but for frogs...
 

Mafles

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Generally speaking, the two of those put together is a bad combination as a first OW. When you throw in those 2 and Asian, that's even worse. That's why many people suggest terrestrial African species.

The cover on the hide is a good idea, assuming it takes to that hide, can't predict that.

If you need help on such a setup you should head over the frog forum, diff site, they deal in PDFs exclusively, those guys know all the ins/outs of vive setup but for frogs...
I'll check out that forum and research some other species. Thank you for all your advice, viper69.
 

cold blood

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. As for the misters, I've read that they temporarily increase humidity. If they were hooked up to a hydrometer as in Dorifto's enclosure, wouldn't that create a more consistent humid environment outside of getting a humidifier?
You dont need to concern yourself with humidity...you are very much over thinking the care needs....its not a specific process, things can vary.
. I'd need to stabilize heat/humidity/moisture levels and to let the plants take root.
ts dont need this, they just need excellent ventilation and air movement when kept damp.
My first search lead me to the Singapore Blue as you recommended. Considering it rains almost every other day in Singapore, would this species of tarantula mind the moist environment you'd get from using the misters?
Ahh, i didnt reccomend...i said it should work.

Just because it rains, doesnt mean the t needs rainy conditions...far from it. This is a good example of why trying to emulate nature isnt always best. We dont need to give them sub par wild like conditions, we have the opportunity to offer IDEAL conditions....which in nature, are often rare...theres a reason in the wild you may see 2 or 3% survival rates to adulthood, and in captivity you can see 95% survival to adulthood.
? In response to viper69's thoughts on safety, would a piece of Tupperware or similar secured to the opening of the tarantula's burrow help negate any safety risks when doing anything in the enclosure
possibly....if theres only one burrow entrance.
age. This would be my first OW and arboreal tarantula
Probably not your best choice for a first OW.
Considering these facts, an O. violaceopes may be a little to temperamental for me (especially after watching the video I linked above). P. Metallicas also hail from moist environments
Anything from Asia is generally (not always) moisture dependent.
 

Dorifto

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First day that she is out since molting!

Now she's munching her first roach

IMG_20200405_163345.jpg
 

Dorifto

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@Dorifto what is the fine grass to the above left of that T? That's just what I need for a viv build
The plant is a Tillandsia argentea, it's a bromeliad specie and the green grass is Java moss (vesicularia dubyana).

This moss grows pretty quickly, only needs to stay humid. If you want to spread it even faster, take a piece of moss add some wather and a little bit of milk, 80ml water and 20ml milk and chop it with a blender, with one brush or your fingers put the chopped pieces in the substrate, It will grow like crazy.
 

Dorifto

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I bought two small deli cups os java moss, then choped one of them, mixed both and voila, in less than a month this:
IMG_20200406_111742.jpg

I used Xaxim for substrate, and added a little bit of top soil on top.
 

Rhino1

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@Dorifto is it the same java moss that the aquarium store sells for fish tanks??
Ah righto, I zoomed in and can now see it's a tillandsia. Im looking for a reasonably short, fine grass species
 

Dorifto

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@Dorifto is it the same java moss that the aquarium store sells for fish tanks??
Ah righto, I zoomed in and can now see it's a tillandsia. Im looking for a reasonably short, fine grass species
Yes, it's the same, it can live in both enviroments, it only needs to be humid.
 
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