ball python / leopard gecko stuff

[Pulk]

i'll lump it into one thread.

what are the best forums for each of these? like, their counterpart of arachnoboards.

what types of potting soil or similar dirt, if any, can be used with either, preferably both of these? (what about peat moss?)

thanks

 

[Mushroom Spore]

I wouldn't use soil for either one, and I've never heard of using soil for them either. Leos in particular can die from ingesting substrate, and I've seen many a ball python that got bits of powdery particulate substrate like that all clogged up in its nostrils and heat sensors from burrowing.

Aspen shavings for the ball (not pine or cedar, which are toxic), and something like astroturf, paper towels, or pieces of slate or plastic shelf liner for the leo.

 

[LeilaNami]

The problem with Aspen is you can't mist it because it molds. I've personally never had a problem with Ecoearth and a ball python. Leopards on the other hand need a dryer climate. We keep ours on a fine sand.

 

[GailC]

I've never had aspen mold from spraying, I use it for all my corn snakes and mist them every few days.
I like fine cypress mulch for balls, it hold humidity well and looks nice. I used tiles for my leos.

 

[ZooRex]

I use a mixture of potting soil and cypress mulch for my ball python. It's been working rather well. The only thing I don't like are the little white balls of vermiculite, maybe next time I'll try topsoil. My leos are on regular play sand, but they are all adults. You don't have to worry much about them ingesting substrate once they're full grown. ~ Rex

 

[Pulk]

thanks for all the replies!

has anyone used repti-sand for leos?

 

[Mushroom Spore]

has anyone used repti-sand for leos?

If you mean that stuff with calcium in it, NEVER USE IT EVER. It only encourages them to eat it, and there are vets on every board--including this one--who've found huge clumps of it in leos' guts during an autopsy. The packaging lies, it isn't reptile safe, just like hot rock packaging lies.

Pre-emptive: anyone trying to argue "well I used it for (x amount of time) with no problem, therefore it is safe!" is essentially arguing "well I sat on top of a car going down the freeway once and didn't die, therefore it's safe!" or "I picked up a rattlesnake with my bare hands and nothing happened, therefore it's safe!"

Both are wrong, and that argument drives me up the wall. Nothing going wrong YET does not mean nothing CAN go wrong, or that the chances of something going wrong are any lower than they would be otherwise.

 

[Ted]

i always found that clean white butcher paper is best..its easy to change out, and doesnt facilitate mold,disease and or parasites.
i bred them for ten years..and had 100% success with them that way.
of course if you must use a natural substrate, i think that coco fiber [fine grade] is acceptable..but nonetheless if you want to eliminate possible issues, including impacted intestines, stick with butcher paper..its cheap, fast, and clean.

i put a tiny dish of water and a tiny jar lid of sand in it and was fine.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

i put a tiny dish of water and a tiny jar lid of sand in it and was fine.

Why would you put sand in there? :?

 

[Ted]

Why would you put sand in there? :?

mine would use theirs as a litterbox..for some reason they preferred to use that for a bathroom.
i guess they liked the texture.
never had a death or a prob...so i went with it.

 

[Pulk]

I believe Calci-Sand does have stuff that encourages them to eat, while Repti-Sand does not. However, this thread is pointing me away from sand.

It seems like slate would be pretty expensive... is there any other safe substrate that doesn't look as bad as paper? (for leos)

 

[zimbu]

Any sand is bad sand, leopard geckos get mouthfuls of it all the time while thy're hunting. If you absolutely must use it, get the finest grain sand you can so it'll pass through their digestive system more easily.

Speaking from personal experience, dealing with an impacted gecko is no fun. One of my leo's has been impacted because I gave her a humid hide full of moist sphagnum moss, which she managed to eat a bunch of while shedding. It took about a month of giving her 2 baths a day in warm water while occasioanlly stroking her belly before she managed to pass the impaction. I was lucky she lived, often they don't without surgery. I use paper towel in her humid hide now.

It's really not worth dealing with, just go with a substrate they can't eat.

You could use tile or astroturf instead of slate?

 

[ZooRex]

Any sand is bad sand

And what are they on in the wild? I'm sorry to here about your gecko, but these are creatures that have evolved in a desert environment, living on sand. Personally, I've never had any problems keeping adult leos as natual as possible. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I feed them with hemostats and thus they don't get mouthfuls sand. ~ Rex

 

[Pulk]

They don't live in extremely sandy spots in the wild. "Desert" just means not much rainfall.

 

[ZooRex]

They don't live in extremely sandy spots in the wild. "Desert" just means not much rainfall.

Thanks, but I'm awear of the definiton of a desert, Antartica can even be classifed as one. Whether leos are found on sand or clay or gravel or a mixture of there of in the wilds of Pakistan (and surrounding areas); it is obvioulsy working well enough for them. That is why I choose to use sand.
~ Rex

 

[Ted]

Thanks, but I'm awear of the definiton of a desert, Antartica can even be classifed as one. Whether leos are found on sand or clay or gravel or a mixture of there of in the wilds of Pakistan (and surrounding areas); it is obvioulsy working well enough for them. That is why I choose to use sand.
~ Rex

i may not keep them on sand for other reasons..i never had a single impaction with any of the several hundred i bred over a decade.
the proper humidity and ventilation i had great moults, and no issues.
i'm just here to explain my methods,i guess whatever works for someone may not work for someone else..
worked for me.

 

[AviculariaLover]

Go here for everything you need to know about ball pythons:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules.php?name=Jig

For substrate I use coco-fiber with some moss in one of the hides to have a nice humid spot. The only caution with the cocofiber is that it can dry out pretty quick and then keep the tank too dry, you need to have a hygrometer to measure humidity to ensure you can regulate it properly with the right amount of misting.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

And what are they on in the wild? I'm sorry to here about your gecko, but these are creatures that have evolved in a desert environment, living on sand.

The Leopard Gecko is native to south-eastern Afghanistan, most of Pakistan, and north-west India, and inhabits primarily the rocky, dry grassland regions of these countries. As nocturnal creatures, they spend the day hidden under rocks or in dry burrows to escape the daytime heat, emerging at dusk to hunt insects.

No, they don't live on sand.

 

[Pulk]

See, even Wikipedia says so!

 

[Schlyne]

I keep my leopard geckos on papertowels. Easy to clean, easy to spit out if they grab a mouthful of it and a cricket.

Some people keep leos on tile.

The only bad thing I found with eco-earth was that in a glass tank, it becomes embedded in the top section of the tank between the glass and the edging. Over a year later I had stopped using eco-earth and I was still pulling some out of the edging.

I currently keep my snakes on newspaper, but it's not the most asethically pleasing thing in the world.