Baby Pinktoe tarantula care

[Briiii]

I recently ordered a baby Pinktoe and I’m trying to find the right stuff for it. I’ve heard a lot of conflicting info on their habitat. Some places say they don’t need heat others say they do. What’s the best way to provide them heat and humidity? This is my first tarantula but I have had jumping spiders. I also live in a cold dry climate, but my apartment does stay really warm if that helps. I’ll attach pics once it arrives

 

[Tarantuland]

Humidity will kill them. It is a death sentence. Keep them dry with a water dish. As long as your temps are between 65-90 you're fine.

This link should answer most of your questions. If your conflicting info comes from other sources- forget them. This site is the best place to get husbandry

Avicularia Husbandry?

Hi! I'm new to the forum and am unsure if this is the right place for this, but I was wondering if there's anything I should know in advance before purchasing an Avicularia genus? (specifically, I have my eye on some a. metallica slings) I've done some reading, but being that I've only ever had...

arachnoboards.com

 

[Dorifto]

Humidity will kill them. It is a death sentence. Keep them dry with a water dish. As long as your temps are between 65-90 you're fine

No, sorry.

Humidity won't kill them, the lack of ventilation plus stagnant air will do.

They live in a pretty humid climate, and with humid I mean humid, it's time to stop that advice because it will kill avics the same as keeping them completely moist and without the proper ventilation.

Just recently, few weeks ago, one guy gave the same advice on FB to another guy, keep them dry and with a water dish, ignoring external factors, and I corrected him that that way avics die because of molt issues or dehydration problems, what happened? Two days ago he posted that his avic was having molting problems, and she got stuck. Died. Now he is regreting by not having followed the advice of giving them some moisture to prevent any issues.

Depending on where you live or your skills it could be factible to keep them that way, but they don't evolved to thrive in those conditions, they could live on them, they are two completely different things.

The advice

https://m.facebook.com/groups/325197520962182/permalink/2027631370718780/

Result

https://m.facebook.com/groups/325197520962182/permalink/2037279566420627/

 

[Tarantuland]

No, sorry.

Humidity won't kill them, the lack of ventilation plus stagnant air will do.

They live in a pretty humid climate, and with humid I mean humid, it's time to stop that advice because it will kill avics the same as keeping them completely moist and without the proper ventilation.

Just recently, few weeks ago, one guy gave the same advice on FB to another guy, keep them dry and with a water dish, ignoring external factors, and I corrected him that that way avics die because of molt issues or dehydration problems, what happened? Two days ago he posted that his avic was having molting problems, and she got stuck. Died. Now he is regreting by not having followed the advice of giving them some moisture to prevent any issues.

Depending on where you live or your skills it could be factible to keep them that way, but they don't evolved to thrive in those conditions, they could live on them, they are two completely different things.

Interesting. And you believe the dryness factored into the bad molt?

Where I live it’s relatively humid, but not extremely humid indoors and mine do fine. But regardless, I agree it’s not alone the humidity that kills them, it’s the lack of ventilation. However, it is a delicate subject because people often hear humidity and they mist these things enclosures and it creates a tepid environment.

 

[Dorifto]

Interesting. And you believe the dryness factored into the bad molt?

It's pretty simple to understand. Humid environments increase the time they have to molt, because their internal moisture it's not absorbed so fast comparing to a drier air. So they have more time to molt and less energy is spent in the molting process, as the internal moisture will help that process way longer.

A bit of moisture won't harm them, but the opposite, it could prevent issues. Just a bit will counteract any possible issues. It has nothing to do with chasing specific humidity numbers. When I say that humidity matters it is because depending on your environment, it will give them more time or less to molt, to dehydrate faster or not etc. Not because people should chase any specific numbers. Few people will have in mind that at different temps different RH levels contain a different amount of water.

Now, a lot of moisture and a lack of ventilation will kill them. Because they will be out of their range too, they didn't evolve to live in saunas, with saturated air etc. because it will be harder to them to breathe too.

 

[Craig73]

I kept all of my avic (5) on dry substrate and occasionally overflowed the water dish, but never to the point of soggy and let it dry out in between. I did not do this often and don’t feel there was a need for the most part.

Good ventilation (top, mid, bottom) and a water dish glued to the cork bark or sitting on the sub, and occasionally drop of water on the bark or leaves higher up is pretty much it. A room in the 70’s and not chasing humidity numbers should be sufficient.

If I’m honest there have been a couple of occasions the water dish went dry for a day or two and nobody dropped dead or looked close to it. Not ideal by any means, but proof enough for me these things are not that fragile.

 

[Dorifto]

I recently ordered a baby Pinktoe and I’m trying to find the right stuff for it. I’ve heard a lot of conflicting info on their habitat. Some places say they don’t need heat others say they do. What’s the best way to provide them heat and humidity? This is my first tarantula but I have had jumping spiders. I also live in a cold dry climate, but my apartment does stay really warm if that helps. I’ll attach pics once it arrives

Sorry I forget to answer you, my apologizes.


Do you heat that dry alone or did you use a humidifier? Heating cold dry air, will decrease the RH values even lower so the air will dry things faster.

If your room temp is warm, it shouldn't be any problem, so there is no need to provide any other heat source. But It would be better to know what you call warm, in my case anything above 16-17°C/61-62F is warm...

Regarding to the humidity, do not chase any specific numbers. By providing some moisture to the substrate it will be enough, as this moisture will counteract the dry air automatically. You only need to check how frequently you need to add moisture, leaving it dry a bit between moistenings. It's not the quantity of it, but the frequency. If you soak the substrate, it will last longer, yes, but the humidity in the enclosure could/will raise to dangerous levels if the ventilation isn't capable of renovating that saturated air with new fresh air fast enough.

If I’m honest there have been a couple of occasions the water dish went dry for a day or two and nobody dropped dead or looked close to it. Not ideal by any means, but proof enough for me these things are not that fragile.

Obviously they won't die in a matter of days. They won't dehydrate in a day or two, unless the temp is above safe levels.

The problem comes when they are kept bone dry always, as there isn't anything that could protect them from very dry ambients. Imho the way you moist the substrate is perfectly fine, as it should provide them humidity for long periods. It doesn't need to be moist to the touch to still provide humidity to the surrounding air, and even if the water dish is dry, the moisture in the substrate is protecting them from the dehydration.

Also another big factor that helps or not to keep them that way is where you live, or how your house's values are.

 

[Edan bandoot]

Mine does fine dry with a water dish, I also drop water on its web when I feed.

It's been fine at temps from 15-26 Celsius.

 

[Malum Argenteum]

What’s the best way to provide them heat and humidity?

Heat: keep them in a room that normal humans find comfortable. That's the right amount of heat.

Mine does fine dry with a water dish, I also drop water on its web when I feed.

This is basically what I do for moisture, though I apply the water to the web with a spray bottle.

So: room temp, water to drink, lots of ventilation. Simple.

 

[viper69]

Read my clicky pink link

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Temps - If your room temps are above 18°C (about 65 freedom units IIRC) then you don't really need supplemental heating, if you're going to provide supplemental heat then the safest ways are to either heat the room with a space heater, or heat a larger enclosure with a heat mat/cable and keep your tarantula's enclosure in that.

Humidity - What people continually forget is that a combination of excessive moisture AND restricted airflow kills Avics (this is basically how the whole "SADS" thing came about). Humidity doesn't kill Avics, creating a stagnant/stuffy environment whilst trying to chase magic numbers does though.

As a general rule I provide sufficient ventilation to ensure there is adequate air circulation (Row of holes just above sub level, row of holes about an inch from the top, some holes at mid-height on the back half, and some holes in the lid. This is more than sufficient IME, any more is overkill and will just result in your enclosures drying out even faster) and keep no more than 1/3 of the substrate damp by overflowing the water dish and repeating as it dries out (trying to ensure that it doesn't dry out fully for long periods), I also provide a water dish (which I occasionally catch them drinking from, usually just prior to moulting).

The advice

https://m.facebook.com/groups/325197520962182/permalink/2027631370718780/
Result

https://m.facebook.com/groups/325197520962182/permalink/2037279566420627/

It's a private group so people who aren't members won't be able to view the links.

Interesting. And you believe the dryness factored into the bad molt?

The only times I've had issues with Avics either dying or getting stuck in moults have been when keeping them dry and usually during Jan-Feb when RH drops into single figures (combination of already dry winter air and running a space heater to keep temps up).

 

[Tarantuland]

Temps - If your room temps are above 18°C (about 65 freedom units IIRC) then you don't really need supplemental heating, if you're going to provide supplemental heat then the safest ways are to either heat the room with a space heater, or heat a larger enclosure with a heat mat/cable and keep your tarantula's enclosure in that.

Humidity - What people continually forget is that a combination of excessive moisture AND restricted airflow kills Avics (this is basically how the whole "SADS" thing came about). Humidity doesn't kill Avics, creating a stagnant/stuffy environment whilst trying to chase magic numbers does though.

As a general rule I provide sufficient ventilation to ensure there is adequate air circulation (Row of holes just above sub level, row of holes about an inch from the top, some holes at mid-height on the back half, and some holes in the lid. This is more than sufficient IME, any more is overkill and will just result in your enclosures drying out even faster) and keep no more than 1/3 of the substrate damp by overflowing the water dish and repeating as it dries out (trying to ensure that it doesn't dry out fully for long periods), I also provide a water dish (which I occasionally catch them drinking from, usually just prior to moulting).

View attachment 401957



It's a private group so people who aren't members won't be able to view the links.



The only times I've had issues with Avics either dying or getting stuck in moults have been when keeping them dry and usually during Jan-Feb when RH drops into single figures (combination of already dry winter air and running a space heater to keep temps up).

Maybe using a room humidifier would work like using a space heater

 

[Dorifto]

It's a private group so people who aren't members won't be able to view the links.

My bad!

Solving the issue:

View attachment screen-20211019-182429.mp4

Now tell to David fisher he is wrong too, he gave him the same advice.

Last post:





And that's the reason why stigmatizing humidity it's so bad and dangerous, people tend to overdo, but in the opposite way. Time before, people overdid the amount moisture because they came from a humid environment, everybody knows what happened. Now we are seeing the opposite, keeping them dry maybe in not so ideal climates. Keeping them dry and giving them some moisture from time to tine could work in certain conditions, and if the keeper is good enough to distinguish bad signs. Keeping them slightly or partially moist, leaving it to dry a bit between moistenings of course, will work for everyone. And in the case that the novice keeper lives in a not so favirable environment that could make the things happen faster, that little moisture would broad the amount of time he has to react. And that's very easy thing to understand. It has nothing to do with chasing a specific humidity levels etc.

Maybe using a room humidifier would work like using a space heater

Do they heat too? If so, it could be a very good option to keep them warm.

 

[Dorifto]

@cold blood keep giving mah's, dislikes and funnys, it won't change that they are dying because of this issue.

If it works for you perfect, keep with it. If it works for others perfect too.

But unfortunatelly it doesn't work for everyone. And if you don't want to see it, or you don't want to know how humidity affects things, that's your own problem, honestly.

You are free to give me wathever pin you want, if you want I can start too this childish war and start giving them too, instead of leaving our pride in one side and start sharing our best advices and knowledge.

I'm still waiting to know how finally you keep your avics in a single digit RH values, dry or moist?

Sincerely, and without any kind of bad feelings.

Ibon

 

[cold blood]

@cold blood keep giving mah's, dislikes and funnys, it won't change that they are dying because of this issue.

Yep, cause your conclusions are a reach at best.

ut unfortunatelly it doesn't work for everyone

But it pretty much does....dead avic threads number in the fractions of what they used to be.

. And if you don't want to see it, or you don't want to know how humidity affects things, that's your own problem,

This is my sentiment as well.

You are free to give me wathever pin you want, if you want I can start too this childish war and start giving them too

Hahahahahaha...hilarious. I NEVER gave your posts a tag UNTIL you started giving them to me...this is your game, not mine.

, instead of leaving our pride in one side and start sharing our best advices and knowledge.

Again, hilarious as I have indeed shared my advices over and over again over the years. You act like I am hiding something, but I have been an open book since joining AB many years ago....to say I am not sharing my experiences is nothing short of laughable. You summarily ignore every time I give these explanations...but I give them anyway...again and again.

I'm still waiting to know how finally you keep your avics in a single digit RH values, dry or moist

Again, this is something I have explained in many posts and several directed specifically to you in past threads. I keep all my avics predominantly dry....in the humid summer and in the super dry winters with a space heater running full time..

You want questions that has never been answered? I got some...how about the ones I have repeatedly asked you without any response;

1. How many avic species do you keep.

2. How long have you kept avics

3. How many times have you bred avics.

4. Why are my hundreds of avics which are kept dry, not dying? Why are they breeding at every opportunity, why are my slings growing up and not dead on the floor of my cages? According to you they should all be dead because I keep them all DRY...all the time, whether its humid or not.

You want to give all this avic advice, you want to counter people that have been successfully keeping avics for years or decades...give us your baseline for your successes with the genus like I have given over and over.

Your notion that any avic that dies in a dry enclosure, dies because of the dryness is UNPROVABLE. Since the hobby moved toward this baseline, avics have been dying at a far far lower rate...not a higher or even equal rate as you seem to insinuate.

The ignoring of all my questions AND of my answers and explanations really makes this seem like you are simply trolling me OVER AND OVER again...but sadly I don't think that's the case. The horse died 6 months ago, but you keep beating on it anyway.

Keeping things too damp is FAR more dangerous than keeping things even too dry...dry allows keepers a much wider safety net than any other piece of info that could be given, period. Sure, they can be kept damp, but if airflow isn't optimal, avics start to decline...a problem that is almost completely alleviated by simply keeping them dry....kept dry, the ventilation and airflow, while still important, are not nearly as critical.

 

[waynerowley]

My bad!

Solving the issue:

I hadn’t realised you had used my Facebook posts until today (after my other post about losing the sling). This being the case I thought it best to highlight to the OP:

- I am a relatively new keeper (less than a year). I’d therefore say there is a good chance that this loss may be down to an error I made somewhere along the line. Then again, it may not. I will never know for sure.

- I have kept, to date, 5 ‘avics’ this way (dry, with water bowl and cross-ventilation). The other 4 are thriving. Three are slings, the other is a juvenile. This is not an overly large number and so doesn’t really validate (or invalidate) the husbandry I’m practising.

To draw conclusions from a couple of FaceBook posts that don’t give the whole story or context can be misleading.

Wayne

 

[Briiii]

Awesome, thanks everyone! She arrived today is is doing well!

 

[Dorifto]

But it pretty much does....dead avic threads number in the fractions of what they used to be.

There are still a lot of deads, and almost all of them because of keeping them dry, so we should focus why they are still dying if keeping them dry it works for a great number of keepers, and one of the factors you are ignoring deliberately is RH. People posted their experience and problems regarding this issue, and you ignore them or directly tell them that they are wrong without even wanting to understand their experience, that's brilliant.

Hahahahahaha...hilarious. I NEVER gave your posts a tag UNTIL you started giving them to me...this is your game, not mine.

For every dissagree always I give a response, it's the least thing one should do, at least imho. Because it's something that personally I hate, to receive a dissagree but not any answer. Hearing and learning from each other we could improve our hobby, resolving every issue or disagreement we could encounter. But for that, the pride it's the worst and biggest obstacle.

Again, hilarious as I have indeed shared my advices over and over again over the years. You act like I am hiding something, but I have been an open book since joining AB many years ago....to say I am not sharing my experiences is nothing short of laughable. You summarily ignore every time I give these explanations...but I give them anyway...again and again.

Here I encounter the biggest contradiction on your advices, you say that they need dampness, now that you keep them dry even in single digit RH numbers, wich biologically it's a challenge. Looks like you don't want to say to moist substrate, if just after that I'm going to appear to refute my posture that humidity matters or something similar, and it's quite the opposite. I'm focused in the novices that follow the advice to keep them bone dry strictly, without having in mind other factors that could make that environment harmful or at least a challenge, for molting for example.

I keep all my avics predominantly dry....in the humid summer and in the super dry winters with a space heater running full time..

I'd love to know what's predominantly dry, because maybe there is a language barrier between us, because for me, dry means no moisture on it. If you are adding some moisture, for me it's slightly moist, slightly partially moist etc.

I got some...how about the ones I have repeatedly asked you without any response;

1. How many avic species do you keep.

2. How long have you kept avics

3. How many times have you bred avics.

I answered you that question before, but if you want I'll answer them again.

NEVER.

If you want to use it like a way to disparage me, it's a pretty weak attack sorry.

It's like if I ask you how many vivariums did you keep? And in case of none, telling you that you couldn't keep none. That's pretty childish approach.

You don't need to keep hundreds of Ts to be a good keeper, or to learn and see some "subtle coincidences" in almost every single issue we have, specially avics. Because unfortunatelly I met a lot of people that because they have a lot of Ts, they think they know more than you. And I'm not speaking about you, to clarify

What I did instead, because of my curious nature? I asked people about the possible causes, if there was any AC running, space heater, climate... etc and what happened? The predominantly factor I found was and is novice (95%)+bone dry+dry environment. And imho it's a thing that we should focus to try to reduce even more the deaths.

Why are my hundreds of avics which are kept dry, not dying? Why are they breeding at every opportunity, why are my slings growing up and not dead on the floor of my cages? According to you they should all be dead because I keep them

Show me a video of your enclosures at a single digit RH values, because you won't find a single one. Based on your advices and gallery they should be at least at 40-50 percent. And you are a experienced keeper, a novice, NO.

You want to give all this avic advice, you want to counter people that have been successfully keeping avics for years or decades...give us your baseline for your successes

I'm not wanting to change how succesful keepers keep their ts, that's your problem, you feel it that way. I'm always speaking about novices or people that don't know how to counteract any dryness that they could encounter during their care time.

But it's easy to know the values of the keepers that keep them dry and know where is the threshold. Place a simple digital hygrometer, measure it and share them.

That could be helpful, but for you, it doesn't matter, it's irrelevant, and if someone refutes you, you laugh at his face, nice.

Your notion that any avic that dies in a dry enclosure, dies because of the dryness is UNPROVABLE. Since the hobby moved toward this baseline, avics have been dying at a far far lower rate...not a higher or even equal rate as you seem to insinuate.

Unprovable? If hundreds are unprovable, OK, IT'S UNPROVABLE.

The hobby make the right movement, and I'm not questioning this. I'm questioning that both ends are detrimental. BOTH

And we should be interested in decreasing every death that we could avoid, and a lot of them are easily avoidable. Why is this genus so susceptible to death? Because they are fragile? Or because maybe we still don't have refined their caresheet based on our climate? Because it's very easy to say they die because they are avics, instead of searching and compare cases, ask to the keepers how where they kept etc.

People confirmed that adding a bit of moisture solved a lot of problems and death cases to them, and you are still telling them that they are wrong because you believe that humidity doesn't matter. Maybe that's an issue that doesn't help at all to our hobby.

I'm focused in that "small" group of dead avics, and how to reduce that number. You are focused on how the hobby reduced the first major death cause on avics, changing from overly moisted to "dry". So maybe instead of the I'm right you are not attitude, we could find how to reduce even more the deaths learning from each other.

 

[Dorifto]

To draw conclusions from a couple of FaceBook posts that don’t give the whole story or context can be misleading

Don't worry, I wasn't using you like the example, unfortunatelly it's not only your case, it's only the last example. It could have been other person easily, but just I had a conversation with you, so do not take it personally. But thanks for the clarification! We are here to help each other to prevent any other possible issues.

Vast majority of issues "casually" occur in winter, where usually RH lowers, heating that air, using powerful AC units... etc while they are kept dry.


@Briiii congrats!!!! If you don't have make the vent holes, make some right above substrate level and some more on top, to allow a greater air movement. Did you add a hide and something like a fake plant to clutter it?

 

[YungRasputin]

for heat: i haven’t supplied any supplemental heat, i keep the temps within a comfortable range of 75-80F via the ambient temp of the room

humidity: there’s a happy medium to be reached between swamp box and mini desert - I’ve found that intermittent misting works the best, so misting and then allowing it to dry out and repeating the process while also keeping the water dish full - in this way you can keep the relative humidity and air moisture close to their natural environment without producing the stagnant conditions which have led to premature deaths

substrate: i use a mixture of coco fiber and black top soil, evenly mixed - this gives you the best of both worlds imo because it won’t dry out über quick like straight coco fiber while also not holding onto it too much like with top soil

ventilation: what’s most important imo is top ventilation - the Avic will eventually rest towards the top of the enclosure, and the moisture put into the enclosure will eventually travel upward as it evaporates and by having a good top ventilation system you’ll be able to use this as a control mechanism for maintaining balanced humidity levels and it allows the traveling air moisture to escape

cross ventilation is also good but i really feel where people run into trouble is not having sufficient top ventilation

would also try to make sure that the air within the room isn’t stagnant itself and is circulating, particularly now that we’re entering the winter months - consider a fan