B vagans and albopilosum hybrid

Andy00

Arachnoknight
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
154
So, I have a MM B. Vagans that I've been waiting to ship to someone here on the boards. He's taking a while to respond. Anyways I also have a B Albopilosum adult/subadult female who's really really into him. I just moved their enclosures far appart, but for the few weeks they've been together the female albo has been lightly tapping every so often, until tonight she started violently tapping. its super loud! They're both tapping a lot. Now, ive heard many bad things about making hybrids, and personally I don't really want to do it and I think it'd be kind of messed up to play with nature like that. But at the same time I feel sad and I feel like it's wrong that they're so close and I'm the one not letting them do what they were born to do. If someone could tell me if I should or shouldn't, or go over the ups and downs of hybridization that'd be great, thanks.
 

BobBarley

Arachnoprince
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
1,487
Pros:
1) None



Cons:
1) Possibility of ruining the two species in the hobby. Take this example, you have 500 babies. You sell 1/2 of them to a dealer. The dealer labels them as hybrids and tries to sell them. No one takes them because they are hybrids. Then he labels them all as vagans. He ends up selling them all as vagans. The other 1/2 you sell to another dealer. This dealer also has trouble selling them labeled as hybrids. She decides to label them all as albopilosum.

2) Slight possibility of hurting the female because the shape of the emboli of the male is most likely different from that of a MM albopilosum.





Note:
Both vagans and albopilosum have already been knowingly mixed up in the hobby. I would strongly recommend you do not hybridize them further.
 

Andy00

Arachnoknight
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
154
Pros:
1) None



Cons:
1) Possibility of ruining the two species in the hobby. Take this example, you have 500 babies. You sell 1/2 of them to a dealer. The dealer labels them as hybrids and tries to sell them. No one takes them because they are hybrids. Then he labels them all as vagans. He ends up selling them all as vagans. The other 1/2 you sell to another dealer. This dealer also has trouble selling them labeled as hybrids. She decides to label them all as albopilosum.

2) Slight possibility of hurting the female because the shape of the emboli of the male is most likely different from that of a MM albopilosum.





Note:
Both vagans and albopilosum have already been knowingly mixed up in the hobby. I would strongly recommend you do not hybridize them further.
Thanks a lot, that really helped me decide. Definitely won't hybridize :)
 

Andy00

Arachnoknight
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
154
What if I don't sell any, and don't breed them further? And has the emboli injuring the female ever been proven to happen? Also, does anyone who's seen hybridization notice a drop in how many slings survive? Still pretty set on not making hybrids, but these are questions I've been wanting to ask for a while. Oh, and has anyone whitnessed or heard of hybridization in the wild?
 

BobBarley

Arachnoprince
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
1,487
What if I don't sell any, and don't breed them further? And has the emboli injuring the female ever been proven to happen? Also, does anyone who's seen hybridization notice a drop in how many slings survive? Still pretty set on not making hybrids, but these are questions I've been wanting to ask for a while. Oh, and has anyone whitnessed or heard of hybridization in the wild?
If you don't sell any, you would end up with hundreds of slings. If you paired them, then destroyed the eggsac, why not wait until you have a mf for your mm or a mm for your mf. I don't know, but I don't see why it couldn't. Again, I don't know. Hybridization does sometimes happen with certain species in the wild.
 

Ghost56

Arachnobaron
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
443
What if I don't sell any, and don't breed them further?
Just don't do it. End of story. The T's have no emotions, they're simply running off instinct. It really makes zero difference if they mate or not to them. Once that male is done with her (if he doesn't get munched) he'll be tapping away again if he senses another female.

I should also add, they most definitely weren't born to do that. Both those species are from different regions; therefore, they would never mate in the wild.
 
Last edited:

Ungoliant

Malleus Aranearum
Staff member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
4,058
It's one thing to provide a home to an existing hybrid, but I would not deliberately create more.

The best thing you can do for your "lovesick" male is to find an experienced breeder with a female of the same species who would be willing to accept him as a sale or trade.


What if I don't sell any, and don't breed them further?
A post I wrote earlier today:

This may seem like a longshot, but consider this scenario. Something happens to you (e.g., a serious car accident) that renders you unable to care for your tarantulas or rehome them yourself (because you're dead or in an extended coma). A well-intentioned relative rehomes your tarantula collection on Craigslist or Facebook (or even drops them off at a local pet store).

At some point in the process, your labels and notes are lost or at least separated from your tarantulas. Even if your relative includes these records when rehoming your tarantulas, a subsequent owner may lose the records or not include them when he transfers ownership of the tarantula. (A long-lived tarantula can go through several owners, and many people will trade or sell their mature males to breeders.) The tarantula ends up being identified by how it looks, which may very well be like one of the two parent species and not an obvious hybrid. In a worst-case scenario, it is bred, and the a large number of hybrid offspring enter the hobby.

And that's just what could happen with well-intentioned, honest parties. If you add dishonesty to the mix (maybe not you but subsequent owners), all bets are off.
 

EulersK

Arachnonomicon
Staff member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
3,301
I mean, just given the sudden influx of these threads, I won't go over the debate.

BUT. Individuals across genera tap at each other. My N. coloratovillosus taps quite often, and I have no mature males even from her native continent. Tapping means nothing, just that they've got hormones raging. They don't care about each other, they just wanna mate. Kind of like teenagers.
 

Moakmeister

Arachnolord
Joined
Oct 6, 2016
Messages
661
Can't these tarantulas tell they're a different species? I thought their sense of smell was better than that
 

Anoplogaster

Arachnodemon
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
675
Pro: You satisfy your curiosity

Con: You'll have lots of angry hobbyists

Does hybridization happen in the wild? Absolutely!

Does that make it okay to intentionally do it in capivity? For the health of the hobby, that would be a no!

Final note: Be careful not to anthropomorphize your spiders. They are physiologically incapable of feeling love sick.
 
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