Awesome day!!!!!!

[Draiman]

Hi Draiman,
Everything mistake is not always a meant to be deception or a scam.It's just
human nature.To error is human.We all make mistakes.Evan if we don't want
to admit it.I was not trying to be rude.I was stating a fact.When I called Joe
today.He had no idea he made a mistake.Before you start throwing false
accusations.You should let Joe repair his mistake and wait for him to get
home.This way he can defend himself.I didn't make this mistake.This is not
my thread.Joe hasn't answered my post either and he always answers my
post.Joe is the one of the nicest person you or I will ever meet.He not a scamer and
anyone who knows him will say the same.Just give him a chance to fix it
before you condemn him.Draiman it always a pleasure and have a great
weekend.

Satellite Rob

???

I always have trouble making sense of your posts. Perhaps I am simply too stupid.

 

[barabootom]

The numbers sound high for wild caught specimens and I know everyone gets upset when they hear wild caught, but T's are really a lot more common than people realize in areas that are still wild. I've been to the tropics and you can collect 100 T's in one day easily in many places, and if you see 100 there are probably 500. The species mentioned are very very common and have large ranges. There is far more harm done by clear cutting large patches of rainforest. When I saw poor farmers burning 10 acre patches of rainforest, I am 100% certain each one was burning hundreds of T's. They are building a major highway in Peru right now from Brazil to the coast and are bulldozing large stretches of rainforest and are killing thousands of T's everyday. A box of 600 T's is nothing compared to the destruction that is allowed and encouraged for money. Don't get bent out of shape for such a miniscule quantity of imported T's. If you really want to protect these animals in the wild, protect the rainforest. I suggest you stop using gasoline because hundreds of thousands of T's die everyday by roads being built for drilling stations for oil in virgin rainforest in places like Ecuador. Stop buying cheap wood furniture made in China, most of which is made from virgin tropical forest products imported to China from Indonesia and Malaysia. Stop buying food products that contain palm kernel oil because large chunks of virgin rainforest all over the world are destroyed every year to plant plantations to produce palm kernel oil. You want to know who really is killing all the T's in the wild, YOU ARE. Not by collecting T's, but by consuming. This hobby isn't big enough to even come close to harming T's in the wild when compared to what is happening worldwide to rainforests because YOU want to live well. I'm not directing this post to any one individual but rather to a bunch of you that whine and complain without just cause.

 

[Trav]

600+ wild caught adult A. Avicularia sounds like all about the money from supplying pet store chains.
A. Avicularia is not a high demand species in the hobby so I really doubt they are all for breeding purposes.
Almost every pet store that sells tarantulas has A. Avicularia for sale in poor conditions.
So can someone answer my question that these are being supplied to pet stores across America?

 

[dendrobate]

The numbers sound high for wild caught specimens and I know everyone gets upset when they hear wild caught, but T's are really a lot more common than people realize in areas that are still wild. I've been to the tropics and you can collect 100 T's in one day easily in many places, and if you see 100 there are probably 500. The species mentioned are very very common and have large ranges. There is far more harm done by clear cutting large patches of rainforest. When I saw poor farmers burning 10 acre patches of rainforest, I am 100% certain each one was burning hundreds of T's. They are building a major highway in Peru right now from Brazil to the coast and are bulldozing large stretches of rainforest and are killing thousands of T's everyday. A box of 600 T's is nothing compared to the destruction that is allowed and encouraged for money. Don't get bent out of shape for such a miniscule quantity of imported T's. If you really want to protect these animals in the wild, protect the rainforest. I suggest you stop using gasoline because hundreds of thousands of T's die everyday by roads being built for drilling stations for oil in virgin rainforest in places like Ecuador. Stop buying cheap wood furniture made in China, most of which is made from virgin tropical forest products imported to China from Indonesia and Malaysia. Stop buying food products that contain palm kernel oil because large chunks of virgin rainforest all over the world are destroyed every year to plant plantations to produce palm kernel oil. You want to know who really is killing all the T's in the wild, YOU ARE. Not by collecting T's, but by consuming. This hobby isn't big enough to even come close to harming T's in the wild when compared to what is happening worldwide to rainforests because YOU want to live well. I'm not directing this post to any one individual but rather to a bunch of you that whine and complain without just cause.

I am well aware of rain forest destruction.My previous interest was breeding Poison Dart frogs and Mantellas.I had over 300 dart frogs all from captive bred purchases.Now of course a few generations back they would of grandfathered from wild caught.I admit that most of my first purchases of mantellas were wild caught from Madagasgar.And I bought them to attempt to breed them and maybe make a difference.Sadly several of the species have now become extinct like the golden mantella (mantella aurantiaca) . I know someone who is very active in the preservation of dart frogs in peru and yes roads are being built, but also the native people burn the rain forest wood to create coal for heat and for selling. And this person has been in one area that had dendrobates reticulatus in a pocket of land that was the size of some peoples back yards.The farmer cleared the land and also killed off this very rare species without caring because he and his family needed the profit from the wood.Education among the native people is a prime directive these days so they will preserve what wild habitat remains.Yet fish exporters from europe and asia will go to these remote tribes and pay pennies for the frogs .Hide them among the fish and smuggle them back and sell them for hundreds of dollars.
So you do make a valid point that we need to stop purchasing furniture, cooking materials,fish, frogs ,tarantulas and many other species to try and remove the interest of wild caught or harvested items.I hate pet stores , they are mostly uneducated idiots that only care about the $$ ,not all ,but most.I just hope that we do not see this happen with the tarantulas of the world.

 

[Satellite Rob]

Hi Trav,
I think there might be a misunderstanding.I did't import the T's.I took Joe to
a importer.I worked there when I was alot younger.This importer is probably the
largest the U.S.Besides the 2 unpacked boxes of Avic's.Thay had at least
1,000 A. Metallica's and 500 A. Avicularia that were already setup.This place has a
pricelist that is at least 15 pages long.With all the new color phases snakes and lizards.
It needs to be.There pricelist is at least 75% captive breed animals.Besides
T's,scorp's and pedes.Thay also import reptiles,anphibians,invertebrates,
mammal's and many other types of insects.In the spider room that day there
was at least 8000 bugs.It could have been alot more.I never took the time to
count them.It's truly incredable.This place supplies amost every wholesaller,
tarantula dealer,petstore and zoo in the United States.Half there business is
worldwide.Thay export worldwide.I hope I cleared that up.Trav it was great
posting you and have a great day.

Satellite Rob

 

[pinkfoot]

Good point, barabootom!

We have developers here in South Africa destroying tracts of land for housing for the up and coming 'new' South Africans, yet Nature Conservation - the official body - refuses anyone permission to save the various species of Baboon Spider at these sites!

Instead, they'd rather see them bulldozed! :?

Who knows how many scores of thousands are lost this way?!

 

[MatthewS]

The numbers sound high for wild caught specimens and I know everyone gets upset when they hear wild caught, but T's are really a lot more common than people realize in areas that are still wild. I've been to the tropics and you can collect 100 T's in one day easily in many places, and if you see 100 there are probably 500. The species mentioned are very very common and have large ranges. There is far more harm done by clear cutting large patches of rainforest. When I saw poor farmers burning 10 acre patches of rainforest, I am 100% certain each one was burning hundreds of T's. They are building a major highway in Peru right now from Brazil to the coast and are bulldozing large stretches of rainforest and are killing thousands of T's everyday. A box of 600 T's is nothing compared to the destruction that is allowed and encouraged for money. Don't get bent out of shape for such a miniscule quantity of imported T's. If you really want to protect these animals in the wild, protect the rainforest. I suggest you stop using gasoline because hundreds of thousands of T's die everyday by roads being built for drilling stations for oil in virgin rainforest in places like Ecuador. Stop buying cheap wood furniture made in China, most of which is made from virgin tropical forest products imported to China from Indonesia and Malaysia. Stop buying food products that contain palm kernel oil because large chunks of virgin rainforest all over the world are destroyed every year to plant plantations to produce palm kernel oil. You want to know who really is killing all the T's in the wild, YOU ARE. Not by collecting T's, but by consuming. This hobby isn't big enough to even come close to harming T's in the wild when compared to what is happening worldwide to rainforests because YOU want to live well. I'm not directing this post to any one individual but rather to a bunch of you that whine and complain without just cause.

I'm with you on this, not that my opinion counts for anything

A lot of people fail to understand the corporate steamroller. When it starts to move, you can't stop it. When people barge into a thread like this and start barking about respecting the species they fail to understand that these people are saving them as strange as it sounds. Sure they intend to make money doing it, when was the last time you fed your kids for free? And where do people think the captive breds come from? They source back to a WC sooner or later.

Poor countries (which tend to be exotic countries, which tend to house these creatures in droves) have little else to offer aside from a tourist trap and natural resources. They have to make money somehow to advance in this world today. People are worried about saving the species? We are saving species every day by collecting them, breeding them, etc. The more we import, the greater their chances. Lets face it, the planet will just continue to populate and the homes these animals enjoy in the wild will someday cease to exist.

Has anyone considered the odds of survival of 500 avics in the wild as opposed to here in captivity with caring owners supplying steady food? Have any of you considered taking some frequent flyer miles and traveling to one of these countries to lay down in front of a bulldozer? Why is everyone picking on the guy who is bringing them in for everyone to enjoy and love? Hes practically pulling little old ladies from burning buildings!

In my humble opinion there needs to be a careful balance of compassion and realistic expectations here. If you want to save the species, save their homes don't crucify the captivators. If you have no intention of saving their homes, support the captivators and give one a home. Which one sounds more realistic? Because your not going to single handedly stop this planet from populating exponentially.

I myself side with the rights activists at heart.. thats where my compassions lie. But the realist in me tells me theres nothing I can do. People are going to breed, the population will expand, consumption will grow and exotics will no longer have homes in the wild. It's an ugly picture, and I hope to never face the day in my lifetime, but it's reality.

On a lighter note, my greatest concern with this facility is the possability of the rights activists breaking in and releasing all these T's.. a few thousand T's running the streets of FL would be enough in one incidence to push exotic importing restriction bills through senate. Can you picture the news coverage? Hope that place has good secutiry, the PETA people are absolutely insane!

- Matt

 

[Dave]

I'm with you on this, not that my opinion counts for anything .......

On a lighter note, my greatest concern with this facility is the possability of the rights activists breaking in and releasing all these T's.. a few thousand T's running the streets of FL would be enough in one incidence to push exotic importing restriction bills through senate. Can you picture the news coverage? Hope that place has good secutiry, the PETA people are absolutely insane!

- Matt

Ok. It's time to add my two cents. Here goes: "People for the Eating of Tasty Animals"



AND FURTHER MORE... barabootom, very well said. Clarity is a refuge in a sea of confusion. (*sighing a sigh of relief)