Avicularia avicularia care

Grimsin

Arachnopeon
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"as often as it will eat"

Does that constitute power feeding? I personally want to fall some place in the middle myself... both quickly achieving good size but yet prolonging life span a little. I feed slings "as often as it will eat" but once i move from fruit flys to dubia its a bit more controlled.
 

Grimsin

Arachnopeon
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Oct 30, 2016
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Also I am noticing cracking in your plexiglass from drilling the air holes. Faster drill and less pressure!
 

Ellenantula

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I like @Trenor setup because it opens from bottom. Mine always web up top, so opening the lid meant destroying web each time (and possibly risking escape). Since avics don't burrow, I used an inverted container and glued gunned small soufflé cup to bottom (you can layer soufflé cups so you only remove top one) and I just put a bit of substrate around it, (in theory, the substrate was for looks and to catch poo and boluses -- but my avic poos and drops boluses into water dish -- hence layering soufflé cups for easy bowl changing). lol

I am not saying top opening enclosures won't work - of course they can - but opening from the top has its own set of problems.
 

TarantuLover81

Arachnosquire
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Apr 21, 2016
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Also I am noticing cracking in your plexiglass from drilling the air holes. Faster drill and less pressure!
Yeah...I had a friend drill them for me and he didn't mean to let it crack...I'll know better next time.
 

TarantuLover81

Arachnosquire
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Apr 21, 2016
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I like @Trenor setup because it opens from bottom. Mine always web up top, so opening the lid meant destroying web each time (and possibly risking escape). Since avics don't burrow, I used an inverted container and glued gunned small soufflé cup to bottom (you can layer soufflé cups so you only remove top one) and I just put a bit of substrate around it, (in theory, the substrate was for looks and to catch poo and boluses -- but my avic poos and drops boluses into water dish -- hence layering soufflé cups for easy bowl changing). lol

I am not saying top opening enclosures won't work - of course they can - but opening from the top has its own set of problems.
Gosh I didn't even think about that! I've got some other acrylic containers but the lids are very shallow and won't hold much (if any) substrate if I make one that opens from the bottom.
 

Ellenantula

Arachnoking
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Gosh I didn't even think about that! I've got some other acrylic containers but the lids are very shallow and won't hold much (if any) substrate if I make one that opens from the bottom.
Yeah, mine doesn't hold much substrate either. And for most Ts that would be totally inappropriate -- but thankfully avics just don't burrow. Another small perk for shallow substrate -- dubias and mealworms can't burrow deep enough to hide either. :)
 

cold blood

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Is this a bit better?
Night and day, looks perfect. As mentioned though, the dish either needs to be more of a squat, wide based dish, or that cup needs to be buried at least halfway just for stability. A t crawls onto that to drink and it will just topple over.
"as often as it will eat"

Does that constitute power feeding? I personally want to fall some place in the middle myself... both quickly achieving good size but yet prolonging life span a little. I feed slings "as often as it will eat" but once i move from fruit flys to dubia its a bit more controlled.
Power feeding is a term that really has no place in this hobby, its something that somehow was brought over from the unrelated reptile hobby, where excessive feeding and fast growth hampers the long term health of the animal, no such health issues exist with tarantulas. On top of that, the term is so vague its worthless...ask 10 people what it means and you will get almost as many different answers. Technically, it means having food available 24/7....even people with heavy feeding schedules don't do that generally.

Slings simply cannot be over fed, as their #1 goal in life is to grow as fast as possible, so they're less vulnerable. A plump sling is a happy sling. At some point they will just stop eating and prepare for a molt. Now many slow growing terrestrials can be over-fed as adults, but its not a health issue, its more of a falling or dragging hazard. Even with adults though, they generally stop eating, and if they don't, its not a big deal to just stop feeding a fat terrestrial and await the next molt...there comes a point where they have all they need, and continued feeding is pretty much pointless.

Plump ts, even slings, can go amazingly long without food, this is something many new keepers struggle with for a while.

A good rule is to feed more often right after a molt, and gradually slow the feedings as the t plumps, eventually stretching feedings out over weeks instead of days.
 

Ellenantula

Arachnoking
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A good rule is to feed more often right after a molt, and gradually slow the feedings as the t plumps, eventually stretching feedings out over weeks instead of days.
I gotta agree. I know so many want to rush a sling to a larger size quickly, but in captivity, with proper care, I see no reason not to let a sling develop naturally without the big rush. In the wild, perhaps growing quickly = survival. But in a safe home....
I am not an over feeder nor a starver -- prefer something in the middle.
 

Grimsin

Arachnopeon
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I have read many places though that basically there are only so many molts in a t's life span. More frequent feeding can equal more frequent molting or so it has been said... in the end shortening the over all life span.
 

Trenor

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I have read many places though that basically there are only so many molts in a t's life span. More frequent feeding can equal more frequent molting or so it has been said... in the end shortening the over all life span.
I've seen/read nothing that shows this to be true. There are people on here that stick to a rigid regular feeding schedule for slings and some that feed slings all they want. No one, who has fed all the T wants, has reported earlier T deaths than the ones that schedule feed. You can change how fast they grow by controlling the temp and feeding. After a sling eats enough to get to the next molt it usually stops eating and hides/burrows until it has molted. IMO the temp seems to affect growth more than food.
 

Grimsin

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https://tomsbigspiders.wordpress.com/2015/08/21/power-feeding-tarantulas/

This is just one of MANY places that talks about it. It is pretty widely excepted though that a T's genetic makeup dictates only a certain number of molts before its body can no longer handle it or rather before it molts for the last time. Some T's do try to molt again after their last molt and all reports lead me to believe it never works out well. Either way though speeding up the molting time does decrease the life span.
 

Trenor

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Here is a quote from the site you posted:
The answer is: it honestly depends. Take a look at the charts below. For the first one, I used a hypothetical female tarantula with an average lifespan of 15 years. Due to the longevity of this species, power feeding has a very nominal effect on the overall lifespan (the gray area designated by a “?”) In this instance, the amount of time potentially taken off of its life is a matter of months, not years.

The posting there is using a hypothetical tarantula and not any actual observed data to show proof. It's just speculation and guessing.

It is pretty widely excepted though that a T's genetic makeup dictates only a certain number of molts before its body can no longer handle it or rather before it molts for the last time.
I've not seen anything to show this or heard of this being backup by anything. If you have a genetic study that shows tarantulas only have a finite amount of molts based on genetics I'd really like to see it.

Some T's do try to molt again after their last molt and all reports lead me to believe it never works out well.
Mature males that try to molt after they mature usually end badly but I've never heard this of females. How many molts does a female GBB have? How would you know that the reason the molt went badly was because they ran out of them?

Unless it can be proven with a valid study that Ts have limited molts then all the rest of this is just speculation. Because if they don't have finite molts then it doesn't matter.
 

cold blood

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"It should be noted that nothing has been done in terms of scientific research as to how power feeding might negatively impact a spider. Most of what we think we know is postulation and guesswork."

The above quote is evidence that this article is all but useless in terms of providing ANY real facts.

I don't buy the "a t only has so many molts" and don't know where this wacky theory comes from...ts never stop molting, the process just slows. And while yes, a male can be made to mature faster, thereby speeding its life, there is zero real evidence to show the same for females.

IMO that whole page is crap and has no place on a site "educating" people.

Massive feeding schedules generally result in longer pre-molt fasting periods more than anything IME. I have fed slings every 2 days until they were full, and fed the same species of the same size one slightly larger prey item a week...guess what, same molting schedules. Temp plays a bigger role than feeding schedules as temps are what dictate the speed at which the new exoskeleton can grow.
 

Trenor

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Massive feeding schedules generally result in longer pre-molt fasting periods more than anything IME. I have fed slings every 2 days until they were full, and fed the same species of the same size one slightly larger prey item a week...guess what, same molting schedules. Temp plays a bigger role than feeding schedules as temps are what dictate the speed at which the new exoskeleton can grow.
I agree, regardless of how fast you feed them a T can only molt as quick as the next exo is developed. If you feed it as much as it needs then it'll just stop eating till it molts. Temp does affect how quickly the exo develops and reduces the time between molts. My Ts molted much faster this summer than they did during the winter last year. I've noted that keeping the pet room +-80F has kept them growing steady were they slowed down last winter when kept at the normal low +-70F temps I like to live in.
 

Grimsin

Arachnopeon
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I take everything on the interwebz with a grain of salt lol. There was a site I had been reading awhile back that did provide more scientific information as far as the whole limited number of molts theory goes, trying to find it again. There is some evidence already in hand though... You did say that a mature male who trys to molt again can have issues? So that would lead me to believe that at least the male has only X number of molts. Or at least has a maximum maturity point to where the body can no longer handle molting. This leads me to more questions though... Does the temperature or feeding have anything to do with males who attempt to make a post maturity molt? If instars are markers for molting at how many instars does a male usually reach maturity and is there an average number involved. If there is an average number involved then that would put an average number on what would be considered post maturity molting... in turn giving an idea that there could be a limited number of molts. At least to a male. We need more data... we need an average number on several specimen of total molts in a life span. Both for male and female... its possible that females could have a limited number or capability but its much longer or rather many more then males. We do know females live longer... it would stand to reason that they would be capable of molting for longer. But that does not mean they wouldn't have a limited number. Your right though we need more data. Something tells me its out there already though lol. If its not... then what the hell are we waiting for? Start keeping good track of number of molts and molt dates. 10-20 years from now we alone could have the data ;)
 

Grimsin

Arachnopeon
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BTW T's are not super creatures immune to old age so in reality yes they do all have a limited number of molts, just to be the wise guy.... Now if that is an exact or even a average number has yet to be determined.

Where I initially heard about this was when I started researching what a wet molt was.
 

Trenor

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There is some evidence already in hand though... You did say that a mature male who trys to molt again can have issues? So that would lead me to believe that at least the male has only X number of molts. Or at least has a maximum maturity point to where the body can no longer handle molting.
The big problem with MM Ts molting isn't due to limited number of molts. It's due to their mature bodies not lending themselves well to molting. The bulbous pedipalps are bigger on the ends than the exo 'sleeve' they are trying to pull them through. This cause stuck molts and usually ends up with them dying. Again, this isn't cause they have no molts left but because you can't fit a boxing glove through a leather jacket sleeve. If it were not for this and other things like it, I honestly feel they would have better molt survival after maturing.

Does the temperature or feeding have anything to do with males who attempt to make a post maturity molt?
I don't know but I really feel it's their body constraints that are the real factor when MM Ts molt. Anything thing else IMO is minor by comparison.

If instars are markers for molting at how many instars does a male usually reach maturity and is there an average number involved. If there is an average number involved then that would put an average number on what would be considered post maturity molting... in turn giving an idea that there could be a limited number of molts. At least to a male.
We use instar as a really quick way to tell how far along slings are when selling them. You can have 3 Ts from the same species at the same instar that are different sizes. Knowing the average size a T is at x instar lets you know roughly what size T you will get. I do know some Ts will mature faster than other kept the same from the same sack. I have multiple Ts from the same sack and they greatly differ in size and have a decent variant in molt cycles.

Start keeping good track of number of molts and molt dates. 10-20 years from now we alone could have the data ;)
There are several people on here that have kept very good records and maybe they will join in and post what they have found. Really though, it's still a small sample set and that would make anything we got hard to know if it is the norm or not. It defiantly wouldn't let us know of any genetic traits that limits the number of molts a T has. That's a whole different level over what we observed and would require a higher level of proof. We really don't even know how long some of these species live much less full life molt number etc.

BTW T's are not super creatures immune to old age so in reality yes they do all have a limited number of molts, just to be the wise guy.... Now if that is an exact or even a average number has yet to be determined.

Where I initially heard about this was when I started researching what a wet molt was.
By this reasoning humans have a limited number of cell replacements and snakes have a limited number of sheds. Which is however many they got to before dying. :p

I see molting a T does like a snake shedding or you replacing old skin cells with new ones. I've not seen anything to show me that this is a limited thing other than the normal slow down of cell renewal that happens to most animals as age increases.

A wet molt is when the new exo doesn't fully form or it has a defect that causes the T to lose internal fluids once it sheds it's old exo. This isn't linked to a limited amount of molts as Ts of all sizes and ages and molt amounts have had wet molts happen. It's the same for a stuck molt which often occurs when a T is unable to get out of it's old exo before the new one starts to harden for a number of reasons. Those also happen at all ages/molt amounts/sizes so it is doubtful that it is linked to a limited amount of molt either IMO.
 
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Grimsin

Arachnopeon
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I don't know but I really feel it's their body constraints that are the real factor when MM Ts molt. Anything thing else IMO is minor by comparison.
That may be the why it doesnt work but what we need to understand more i think is what causes it in the first place. Does food and temperature play a role in a already mature male T trying to molt after it no longer should.

We use instar as a really quick way to tell how far along slings are when selling them. You can have 3 Ts from the same species at the same instar that are different sizes. Knowing the average size a T is at x instar lets you know roughly what size T you will get. I do know some Ts will mature faster than other kept the same from the same sack. I have multiple Ts from the same sack and they greatly differ in size and have a decent variant in molt cycles.
The instar though is in fact the number of molts yes? Regardless of the actual sling size?

There are several people on here that have kept very good records and maybe they will join in and post what they have found. Really though, it's still a small sample set and that would make anything we got hard to know if it is the norm or not. It defiantly wouldn't let us know of any genetic traits that limits the number of molts a T has. That's a whole different level over what we observed and would require a higher level of proof. We really don't even know how long some of these species live much less full life molt number etc.
I agree we need more data no two ways about that. We might start to get an idea though... if we had say three people with at least 10 years of records on even one T a piece. If all 3 had 20 molts before death.... well... It would be a good start to proving they have a certain number of molts. Of course if one has 10 and one has 20 and the 3rd has 30... well that would be a good start to proving other wise. Assuming in all cases they lived equally healthy lives and all died of "old age".

I still feel as though the information may already be out there. One thing that seems true regardless of what jobby I'm dealing in... I am seldom the first person to think of something. Laboratory genetic testing on T's may have been done and already have this information somewhere. If not we should file for a grant... :) I personally wouldn't mind a lab full of T's.



A wet molt is when the new exo doesn't fully form or it has a defect that causes the T to lose internal fluids once it sheds it's old exo. This isn't linked to a limited amount of molts as Ts of all sizes and ages and molt amounts have had wet molts happen. It's the same for a stuck molt which often occurs when a T is unable to get out of it's old exo before the new one starts to harden for a number of reasons. Those also happen at all ages/molt amounts/sizes so it is doubtful that it is linked to a limited amount of molt either IMO.
I know I was just stating that that is how I came across the article about them only having so many molts in the first place. Nearly everything I read about wet molts in the end all linked it to diet or moisture issues but mainly diet.
 
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