Avic. Humidity Idea

boonbear

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Dec 31, 2008
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I'm planning on getting an Avic this January. I've decided that it will be difficult to get the humidity I need using the enclosure's available.
I want to use an upside down plastic pickle container or an upside down mayonnaise jar. The lid will obviously contain the soil, which will hold the water for humidity, as well as a water dish. But I'm not sure that the soil will give enough humidity, since the lid is so shallow.
To fix this, I thought I may add water crystals that I use to water my roaches to the soil, which miraclegro uses in their water retention soil. This should give off a little more, or that's my hope.
I wanted to see if anyone has tried, heard of, or discourages this. I know some people feel like the water crystals would be potentially toxic to the T. I think this is rubbish, since the roaches have used it for about 4 years now, and I have not had any trouble with it. I've also researched it, and as long as it's hydrated, I could eat them myself with no adverse effects.
If anyone is an avid Avic keeper, please let me know what you think.
 

Scorpionking20

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May 31, 2010
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158
Interesting proposition. For an avic, you could put the crystals down in the substrate as it's unlikely the avic will burrow it up anyway. Let me know how it goes.
 

Stewjoe

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Sep 4, 2010
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Sterile water gell is not toxic, however it is a breeding ground for bacteria. With a moist substrate and limited ventilation it should be fine.
 

BCscorp

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Go get some New Zealand sustainably harvested sphagnum moss (the long stuff). Get it pliable (add water) and what I have done is to bunch it up and place it where it'll stay together (eg. in between cork bark and side of enclosure) and wet it liberally. So far I haven't noticed any downsides and it seems to retain moisture for a couple days slowly releasing humidity.
Too loose and it evaporates fast, so bunch it up well, even tying a loose log or ball of it works
 

KvMccur

Arachnopeon
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Dec 4, 2010
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9
If you are talking about a baby aborial, please do not place it in an upside down jar. If you wish to use a jar, keep it upright and poke some small holes in the lid and place your substrate at the bottom, to hold the humidity and spray that lightly a few times per week. Put a small, thin stick in there. If it constantly climbs and stays on the branch to get closer to the airholes, too much humidity.

If it only goes to the substrate to eat prey and returns to the stick, height and airholes, too much humidity. If it constantly goes to the substrate and hangs out there, away from the air holes, too little overall humidity. Watch your spider's behavior and attempt to find a balance. If in a jar, lightly mist the stick and the substrate, and create a comfortable balance, it's behavior will tell you what to do and what to adjust. It will then web in the most comfortable spot and you will know. Forget about water crystals. They are not necessary and if anything, will cling to the glass of the jar and inhibit your ability to watch your spider's behavior and what that is telling you.

An upside down jar, the lid waited by substrate, will limit your ability to make adjustments to it's environment when necessary, as everytime you open the jar, the substrate moves. This is stressfull to a small spider, please do not do it. The only reason that babies are placed in small containers is so that they get the relative humidity that they require and so that they fell secure and can easily find small prey. An upside down container will limit your ability to discern the needs of the spider and make adjustments to it's environment.
 

Nicole

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I prefer upside down containers for baby avics. Otherwise every time you open it up you destroy the webbing that they inevitably build at the top. I don't see any reason why water crystals in the stubstrate would be a bad idea, but I'm not sure that it is necessary either. I use damp peat in all of mine and it seems to work fine, but I don't go crazy with the ventilation holes and mesh like some do.
 

KvMccur

Arachnopeon
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Dec 4, 2010
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9
Nicole,

You have a very good point. However, avic's tend to form the base of their web (the strongest part) in the middle of their home, and the top and bottom are less important and are replaced nightly if disrupted by lid opening. The height and security, as well as the type of web that they build, answer to the security of the ground and this should not be based upon an ever changing level of ground, ie., it's substrate.

Everytime that lid is opened, it creates a disturbance and endourages the spider to create the web as high around the top if the upside down jar bottom as it can go. In nature, if disturbed, the avic can entirely relocate to a new tree or plant, but it captivity, it is dealt with what it has been given, and the less stress to it's home the better. Every time a lid is opened in an upsied down container is like an earthquake to an aborial, and should be avoided. It is not used to it and does not have the instincts do deal with it. Feed and provide air from above for a tree spider, that is what it knows, expects, and can adjust to. Slight disturbances to it's web at the top are less traumatic than the heavy, uncontrolled disturbances from below. It tells the spider that it can not go down, only up.
 

Offkillter

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Jun 18, 2010
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149
boonbear in my opinion your obsessing to much over humidity.I keep several Avicularia and have never lost one.I spray the enclosure every few days (substrate and walls) and my spiders are all happy little killers.Also if you looking for a way to utilize a plastic jar optimally go look at the pictures I have posted in my profile there are only a few of one container but it'll give you some ideas .This is how all my spiders are set up from large jars down to the smallest.It really makes maintaining any arboreal T easy.
 

KvMccur

Arachnopeon
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Dec 4, 2010
Messages
9
Everyone, going forward, should not dispense general advice in a forum such as this. If someone in upper New York or Canada have a humidity question, why does someone from CA, NM or AZ respond? Entirely different environments and additional requirements will be necessary. Very simply put, a captive spider in Maine, can not be compared to a captive spider in florida. Different temperatures, air mass and flow, and humidity. All of that comes into play with regard to husbandry. When someone in Michigan is asking for help with a spider husbandry issue, they do not need a response from someone in Key West.
 

Nicole

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Apr 30, 2004
Messages
95
Nicole,

You have a very good point. However, avic's tend to form the base of their web (the strongest part) in the middle of their home, and the top and bottom are less important and are replaced nightly if disrupted by lid opening. The height and security, as well as the type of web that they build, answer to the security of the ground and this should not be based upon an ever changing level of ground, ie., it's substrate.

Everytime that lid is opened, it creates a disturbance and endourages the spider to create the web as high around the top if the upside down jar bottom as it can go. In nature, if disturbed, the avic can entirely relocate to a new tree or plant, but it captivity, it is dealt with what it has been given, and the less stress to it's home the better. Every time a lid is opened in an upsied down container is like an earthquake to an aborial, and should be avoided. It is not used to it and does not have the instincts do deal with it. Feed and provide air from above for a tree spider, that is what it knows, expects, and can adjust to. Slight disturbances to it's web at the top are less traumatic than the heavy, uncontrolled disturbances from below. It tells the spider that it can not go down, only up.
That is not my experience at all, so I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree. I only keep avics, besides one little P. scrofa on my desk at work, and nearly all of my slings build their webs at the top of the enclosure, whether it opens from the top or bottom. Utilizing a tall bottom-opening container enables me to do maintenance and feeding without the webbing being disturbed at all.

Everyone, going forward, should not dispense general advice in a forum such as this.
Well, that is pretty much what this forum is for.
 
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boonbear

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Everyone, going forward, should not dispense general advice in a forum such as this. If someone in upper New York or Canada have a humidity question, why does someone from CA, NM or AZ respond? Entirely different environments and additional requirements will be necessary. Very simply put, a captive spider in Maine, can not be compared to a captive spider in florida. Different temperatures, air mass and flow, and humidity. All of that comes into play with regard to husbandry. When someone in Michigan is asking for help with a spider husbandry issue, they do not need a response from someone in Key West.


Then why would you post advice? You live in Texas, which is drastically different from Georgia. This forum IS for general advice.
 

Midknight xrs

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May 25, 2010
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Everyone, going forward, should not dispense general advice in a forum such as this. If someone in upper New York or Canada have a humidity question, why does someone from CA, NM or AZ respond? Entirely different environments and additional requirements will be necessary. Very simply put, a captive spider in Maine, can not be compared to a captive spider in florida. Different temperatures, air mass and flow, and humidity. All of that comes into play with regard to husbandry. When someone in Michigan is asking for help with a spider husbandry issue, they do not need a response from someone in Key West.
A response like this, in a generally open forum, in an area concerning a species in which many have experience with, is what will limit those who do not typically respond to never post or respond. 90% of houses are built with the same materials and designs. a person in Florida and a person in Alaska will have a similarly built home because of the engineers who set building codes. this being said, husbandry would be the same in both places bearing a difference household temperature. But with the train of thought you were going with, someone who houses their T's in a closet on the second floor of their home can not give the same advice to someone who houses theirs in a basement.
Most spiders are kept in a closed environment exposed to only those elements in which the keeper exposes them to. those closed habitats/environments can be controlled the same way a person in the northeastern part of the country as someone in the southwest.
The OP was asking about humidity in an enclosure about a species that from my readings on here and in many books is known to have issues adapting to these differences. As long as the temperature in their relative environment can be controlled and the OP can watch the temperature and humidity in the T's cage, their should be no difference on where and from who gives and uses the advice.

I know I'm new to this hobby and forum, but you just signed up and seem to be putting in more two sense then other forum newbies. The point of these forums is for advice and knowledge to be shared and discussed and not dismissed just because of a persons age, race, sex, location, religion and the like. If you would like to advise me on your knowledge of this hobby be it years of keeping or a degree in plant science with emphasis in entomology and arachnids, i'm sure myself and others would be all eyes.
 

KvMccur

Arachnopeon
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Dec 4, 2010
Messages
9
Someone mentioned that I should not post messages because I live in TX. I have also lived in CA, LA, OK, FL, TN, England, NY, Canada (briefly), Africa, Venuzuela, Korea, China,Vietnam Japan and Surinam, Egypt and then Iraq. How obtuse. When the internet 1st came around, we all shared information about our spiders, and then some circus clown has a comment. I have been doing this since the 70's....I will leave the forum to you. I have popped in twice, once in the 1990's and again in the 00's. Back then Rick West and Brian Capizi would drop by and all was close and informative. I will not bother you, and will no longer participate.

Again, I have agreed to step away from this forum. Now I have been called a newbie, when I was importing expensive tarantula's in the 70's. When the internet first came out, forums were a friendly community. Now I get attacked. For a shared forum of ideas, this one seems very exclusive. I apologize, and will leave all of you to your business. I pop in once a decade, did so in the 90's, 00's and then now. Will not bother to again.



Building code's differ from county to county, state to state. I can not believe that someone used builing codes to imply that arachnids can all be kept to the same specifications no matter where you live in the US. While MN in 20 degrees and less in the winter, CA is 65 degrees and above in the winter. To imply that all states are the same is a blatent fault of the understanding and requirements of any animal, beset spiders.

Kev
 

boonbear

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
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Dec 31, 2008
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KvMccur, your first 2 posts were useful. All the others are a waste of space. No one cares where you live or if you kept spiders since 1970. You shouldn't jump in, give advice, tell others they shouldn't, and then berate everyone when they are offended. Only one post could be considered offensive that was directed at you. If you want to pack a suitcase and hit the road because of it, that's up to you.

I just wanted to know what people thought about the water crystals. Good info from the contributers, even KvMccur. Let's just stay on topic and not get grouchy.
 

Treynok

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May 17, 2009
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202
I agree with not using an upside down jar. I gave my A avic about 2 inches of substrate in a large plastic "jar" right side up with a vertical log it can hide in / around and a fake plant that goes from the top of the enclosure to the floor. She anchored the leaves into a web around her going from the substrate to about 7/8 of the way to the top. I think if it has proper anchor points and feels comfortable around the middle of the enclosure it won't web the highest point just because it is the highest point. Also like stated humidity isn't a huge issue as long as you have a balance between that, temperature and ventilation. I'm planning on keeping more arboreals in the same type of setup to see if the webbing location holds true in near identical enclosures.

I personally disagree with not posting a comment due to location. The question refers to managing humidity in a micro-climate which everyone on these boards has some experience with. Sure it does differ based on location but the core concepts are the same and everyone's experiences are as valuable as anyone else's especially when the op has the option to read through numerous hints and tips and can take more from the situation than 1 or 2 experiences. I don't see the reason for taking something personal on a forum but it is your choice, your opinions and experiences are just as important as anyone else though and we benefit as a community from having different people with different experiences all giving and receiving information.

Edit: Was curious but what size avic are you getting to start? Sorry if you answered and I missed it.
 
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boonbear

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I've only had one Avic. before.
I thought they may web enough to make getting to the water dish and substrate in the bottom a bit tough. But then again, I've not had one long enough to know how to care for them much.
I also lost the 2nd instar versicolor after only 2 days. wasn't sure why (I know they are notorious for dying mysteriously), but that's why I want a bit of a better setup before I start with the new one. I plan on it being about half-grown, depending on prices.
 

Treynok

Arachnoknight
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May 17, 2009
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I can get a picture and measurements if you'd like but mine has one web tunnel built and it has definitely made good use of the fake plant that it positioned with the web to be the walls of it's tunnel. I can still easily mist but this jar also has a good curve back to the lid so maybe that helps as well. I haven't had trouble misting etc or getting to the sub. I'm not overly experience with arboreals as of yet but am planning on getting more I love my avic. Just posted what worked for me. It is essentially a large plastic jar but it was an old pretzel container.

Edit: I was also contemplating using an upside down container but am glad I set it up the way I did. It makes things so much easier.
 

Poxicator

Arachnobaron
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Nov 16, 2007
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Out of interest how do you provide crickets in an upside down enclosure? And what happens when you clean the sides of Avic poo?

I can't see any advantage in having the enclosure upside down, rather it seems to create problems.
 

curiousme

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Out of interest how do you provide crickets in an upside down enclosure? And what happens when you clean the sides of Avic poo?

I can't see any advantage in having the enclosure upside down, rather it seems to create problems.
Currently we put the roaches in through the ventilation holes. The same thing happens when you clean the poo in a right side up enclosure...... it gets clean. ;) With their webs at the top, there is very little poo on the sides of the enclosure.

If you are using hobby cubes, then upside down is what I would recommend for Avicularia species slings and juvies, but they are the only arboreals I would do that for. I prefer front opening enclosures for arboreals, but we haven't made more of our homemade enclosures, so that we actually have that again. They got too big for the old set.
 
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