Australian Tarantula Communal?

[Tarantula Brandon]

Hey guys,
I've been doing a bit of research on communal's, mainly Balfouri communals, but I am super curious, has anyone in Australia done any communal setups with our genus and species of tarantulas?
How many did you have?
Were they all from the same sac?
How has it gone so far, any losses?
Which genus and species?
and if possible, why that species?

I'd love to setup a Phlogius sp . PQ113 communal as they're close to my favourite Aussie T, but I'm to scared to lose a bunch of slings. They would all be from the same sac and same age / size, any thoughts and opinions on this?

 

[Goopyguy56]

I don't think it would work out.

 

[basin79]

Short answer: Won't work.

Long answer: It's unfair and selfish to make those tarantulas live together and won't work.

 

[Tarantula Brandon]

Short answer: Won't work.

Long answer: It's unfair and selfish to make those tarantulas live together and won't work.

I figured this would be the case but I haven't been able to find any information at all anywhere. Has anyone even researched if any Aussie T's are communal possibly? Since there's very little known about them. Researchers like Steve Nunn even say theres many species that we are yet to identify, could it be possible in the future maybe?

 

[basin79]

I figured this would be the case but I haven't been able to find any information at all anywhere. Has anyone even researched if any Aussie T's are communal possibly? Since there's very little known about them. Researchers like Steve Nunn even say theres many species that we are yet to identify, could it be possible in the future maybe?

I won't pretend to know. However even if tarantulas where found to actually live together communally in the wild it doesn't mean they'd live together in a captive environment.

Tarantulas are amazing on their own. Whilst I'll admit seeing M.balfouri tolerate each other is fascinating I don't understand the whole "communal" thing as a whole.

 

[Goopyguy56]

Im pretty sure almost all species of tarantulas are solitary. Any attempts at keeping them in groups is just an experiment. If I am not mistaken, M Balfouri is the only tarantula species that usually tolerates each other on a regular basis. There are others that seem hit or miss. I have never tried a communal so I am no expert. I think the rule of thumb is that M Balfouri is the only truly communal at least for now.

 

[Tarantula Brandon]

*The smallest known species, the pygmy rainforest tarantula, can be kept communally

Just found this on @RezonantVoid s quick identification list. Now this is something I have to look into.

I also thought the same as you Goopyguy56, thank you guys for the information

 

[RezonantVoid]

*The smallest known species, the pygmy rainforest tarantula, can be kept communally

Just found this on @RezonantVoid s quick identification list. Now this is something I have to look into.

I also thought the same as you Goopyguy56, thank you guys for the information

I have read reports and reviews about Dwarf Tropix being communal, but I can not vouch for any of those. Tropix does seem like a fairly chill species but it's up to you if you wanna run the risk. Personally I think they probably could work together if they were sac mates.

DO NOT attempt communals with any other species, especially Phlogius. You'll only end up with wasted money and alot of dead/injured T's, especially in the case of a pricy species like pq113. That includes sac mates.

If you want a communal with Aussie species, I would suggest sac mates from an Arbanitis sp., in the wild they are found in extremely compact colonies and as long as they aren't rehoused later but are kept from slings to adulthood in a permanent setup, you should have 0 issues

 

[Tarantula Brandon]

I have read reports and reviews about Dwarf Tropix being communal, but I can not vouch for any of those. Tropix does seem like a fairly chill species but it's up to you if you wanna run the risk. Personally I think they probably could work together if they were sac mates.

DO NOT attempt communals with any other species, especially Phlogius. You'll only end up with wasted money and alot of dead/injured T's, especially in the case of a pricy species like pq113. That includes sac mates.

If you want a communal with Aussie species, I would suggest sac mates from an Arbanitis sp., in the wild they are found in extremely compact colonies and as long as they aren't rehoused later but are kept from slings to adulthood in a permanent setup, you should have 0 issues

Thank you so much Rezonant! Exactly what I expected, I definitely wasn’t going to try any communal setup unless there was strong proof that it works with no casualty’s. I don’t want to hurt anything.

I’m kinda really wanting to try with 5 tropix slings but as I just said I wouldn’t want to get them hurt. Ah tough.

Interesting. I haven’t looked much into Arbanitis sp but I am intrigued by trap doors. I might do a little research. Would be awesome to have a few trapdoors opening simultaneously for food.

 

[RezonantVoid]

Thank you so much Rezonant! Exactly what I expected, I definitely wasn’t going to try any communal setup unless there was strong proof that it works with no casualty’s. I don’t want to hurt anything.

I’m kinda really wanting to try with 5 tropix slings but as I just said I wouldn’t want to get them hurt. Ah tough.

Interesting. I haven’t looked much into Arbanitis sp but I am intrigued by trap doors. I might do a little research. Would be awesome to have a few trapdoors opening simultaneously for food.

Cool thing with Arbanitis is most of them don't make lids, so every night you get to see your beautiful metallic golden spider sitting at the entry

 

[Tarantula Brandon]

Cool thing with Arbanitis is most of them don't make lids, so every night you get to see your beautiful metallic golden spider sitting at the entry

But the lid is what attracts me to those spiders. Ah. HAHAHAHA. Time to think.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

There’s a dwarf Phlogius species which is supposedly pretty tolerant in a communal setup when it’s a mother with her offspring even long after they’d be expected to disperse with any other species. Probably a bad idea to just throw a bunch together and hope the communal works though, at least if you just leave a few slings with the mother the worst that can happen is she eats them. A PQ113 communal will probably end with one fat spider

 

[viper69]

SO many people are keen on having one big fat T...have fun playing god people.

 

[Tarantula Brandon]

SO many people are keen on having one big fat T...have fun playing god people.

Sorry was it illegal to ask a question?
I’m sorry that the enclosures absolutely intrigue me and how they live together so I was curious as I don’t have access to known communal T’s. If you read, I never said I was straight up going to do it. I wanted peoples thoughts as I’m still learning myself.

 

[viper69]

Sorry was it illegal to ask a question?
I’m sorry that the enclosures absolutely intrigue me and how they live together so I was curious as I don’t have access to known communal T’s. If you read, I never said I was straight up going to do it. I wanted peoples thoughts as I’m still learning myself.

If I can’t ask a simple , why are forums even around.

It is definitely not illegal hahahah. I wasn't criticizing you, it's a comment about the hobby.

What I find so bizarrely fascinating in the T world is the constant questioning of communal keeping. As a reptile/amphibian keeper first, I've never encountered this behavior. Decades later the T community is still focused on this.

 

[Arachnophoric]

What I find so bizarrely fascinating in the T world is the constant questioning of communal keeping. As a reptile/amphibian keeper first, I've never encountered this behavior. Decades later

When I first joined the hobby back in 2016, I didn't see communal threads very often. I've noticed as of late that there seems to be a hard resurgence of interest in cohabitation, especially with Poecilotheria. You'd think that people would learn from the past with numerous examples where things go wrong eventually and sometimes for seemingly little to no reason. I personally don't understand much on the appeal either - maintenance and rehouses sound like a nightmare and it'd cause me a lot of unnecessary stress not being able to well monitor the health of individuals, as well as having that constant worry in the back of my mind of someone getting eaten.

A personal gripe, but I also have come to hate the term "communal". I think it gives people the wrong impression when it comes to cohabitation and tarantulas.

 

[RezonantVoid]

@viper69 @Arachnophoric at least from my perspective, the appeal comes from the prospect of seeing how organisms interact with each other (non aggressively of course). If I can use the example of trapdoors again, many of our native species are naturally found with burrows mere centimetres apart. Only upon keeping some species communally from sling size have we learned about some interesting behaviours displayed by individuals, such as unique walking and drumming patterns to distinguish themselves from prey to their fellow sac mates etc. In this regard, I think that there are specific species that community housing actually benefits, but many people like to entertain the concept of such and try to apply it to a range of invertebrates that are I'll suited for communal housing.
To @Tarantula Brandon's credit, they came on here seeking advice first when they could very well have gone and already communally housed a bunch of PQ113's and made this thread complaining about the results.

 

[Arachnophoric]

@Tarantula Brandon's credit, they came on here seeking advice first when they could very well have gone and already communally housed a bunch of PQ113's and made this thread complaining about the results.

My comment wasn't in direct reference to OP, merely a trend I've noticed on the rise between threads popping up on here and posts on Facebook.

@viper69 @Arachnophoric at least from my perspective, the appeal comes from the prospect of seeing how organisms interact with each other (non aggressively of course). If I can use the example of trapdoors again, many of our native species are naturally found with burrows mere centimetres apart. Only upon keeping some species communally from sling size have we learned about some interesting behaviours displayed by individuals, such as unique walking and drumming patterns to distinguish themselves from prey to their fellow sac mates etc. In this regard, I think that there are specific species that community housing actually benefits, but many people like to entertain the concept of such and try to apply it to a range of invertebrates that are I'll suited for communal housing.

I can understand that there is an appeal in seeing creatures interact with each other, but not enough for me to justify putting ones with known cannibalistic tendencies together in a small enclosed space. M. balfouri have even been documented to cannibalize, just not as often under the right guidelines. Slings feel like a different situation, because when they're that small in nature they're all still together with mom until they're mobile enough to set out on their own. It's not really the same as forcing a bunch of juvenile, subadult, and mature tarantulas to occupy each other's space knowing that were they given the opportunity to they'd all disperse and set up their own territories as to not be a threat to each other and not need to directly compete for resources. When I see photos of a bunch of balfouri huddled together in a hide, I'm inclined to believe it's a similar situation as to ball pythons who are cohabitated and coiled up together; they're not doing that because they want each other's company, they're competing for the ideal locations in the enclosure and just tolerating one-another's presence. Until they don't.

On the trapdoors, I wouldn't know anything there. That's more your area of expertise.

 

[SteveIDDQD]

Communals are very interesting for people, that's for sure.

I have 4 balfouri slings in one enclosure and they seem to not just tolerate each other, but will happily share food, work together to make the web castle taller/bigger and always seems to stay close together - They definitely don't just stick to their own territory. I tend to find them all together but in several different places in the castle.

That said, it was a big worry just to try it, as I wouldn't want to throw a T away just for an experiment. I really wouldn't try with any other species TBH, Balfouri's have proven to be able to live together (with very rare instances of cannibalism) time and time again. I don't think I'd do it again either, once you've seen a line of T's all webbing up the same leaf and a couple eating the same cricket, there isn't much else exciting to see (or at least I haven't seen it yet!).

Someone has to be the first to try though...

 

[viper69]

When I first joined the hobby back in 2016, I didn't see communal threads very often. I've noticed as of late that there seems to be a hard resurgence of interest in cohabitation, especially with Poecilotheria. You'd think that people would learn from the past with numerous examples where things go wrong eventually and sometimes for seemingly little to no reason. I personally don't understand much on the appeal either - maintenance and rehouses sound like a nightmare and it'd cause me a lot of unnecessary stress not being able to well monitor the health of individuals, as well as having that constant worry in the back of my mind of someone getting eaten.

A personal gripe, but I also have come to hate the term "communal". I think it gives people the wrong impression when it comes to cohabitation and tarantulas.

It's been going on for a long time, "communals". Long before I was on the forum Avics were often talked about as communal. Again no science to back it up. I say communal is crap. When you put some species in together, captivity can bring out unnatural behavior in the name of survival.