Asian Arboreals + Humidity

[YungRasputin]

was doing research and thought i would ask my pals here - for those that keep them, what’s your recipes for substrate? how do you achieve the correct humidity parameters? wanted to know if i should alter the mix I’ve been using for pokies which is 1 part cocofiber, 1 part sand, 1 part top soil and for humidity I’ve been following my usual routine of 1-2 times a day light misting, with the occasional heavy misting but overall finding a careful balance to produce 60-70%+

would Asian arboreals deviate from this substantially or be similar? have seen that there husbandry in this respect is v precise

 

[jrh3]

I have never checked humidity, ever. Not for any species. I think it’s irrelevant with tarantulas. They need moisture, that simple. All of my pokies are kept with reptisoil, that I let dry out a bit, then over flow a water dish. Never had an issue. Misting is not required for any species whatsoever, unless it is to offer them a drink.

 

[YungRasputin]

I have never checked humidity, ever. Not for any species. I think it’s irrelevant with tarantulas. They need moisture, that simple. All of my pokies are kept with reptisoil, that I let dry out a bit, then over flow a water dish. Never had an issue. Misting is not required for any species whatsoever, unless it is to offer them a drink.

i appreciate the input but would disagree with the irrelevancy of humidity with respect to tarantulas

 

[jrh3]

i appreciate the input but would disagree with the irrelevancy of humidity with respect to tarantulas

What data can you show? Do you know how tarantulas intake moisture?

This link below can teach you a good bit on tarantulas and humidity, how they use moisture, Its a long read but worth it. They are not like reptiles which many people fall blindly too.

MYTHS: RELATIVE HUMIDITY

 

[viper69]

I've never used sand- not for any reason mind you. I've been a coco fiber person generally, with some moss at times. I've also used vermiculite too.

 

[jrh3]

I've never used sand- not for any reason mind you. I've been a coco fiber person generally, with some moss at times. I've also used vermiculite too.

Vermiculite is old school at its finest. Works well mixed with perlite for chameleon egg incubation too.

Balfouri is the only species I have ever considered a sand mix for.

 

[viper69]

Vermiculite is old school at its finest. Works well mixed with perlite for chameleon egg incubation too.

Balfouri is the only species I have ever considered a sand mix for.

Tell ya something interesting. My first Ts were on vermic. Picked that up from a T breeder/entomologist, it was common back then. When I think back the NW and OW terrestrials didn't seem to find it. I never noticed any odd walking, sliding around etc.

But with coco fiber- not so at times. Fresh coco- Ts sometimes end up with a face full of it when they dive for a crix. But the most interesting, even with packed down coco, quite a few Ts walk on their "toes" sort of when they touch down into their new home after shipping. They adjust once they web over of course. Never saw that type of walking w/vermic

 

[YungRasputin]

What data can you show? Do you know how tarantulas intake moisture?

This link below can teach you a good bit on tarantulas and humidity, how they use moisture, Its a long read but worth it. They are not like reptiles which many people fall blindly too.

MYTHS: RELATIVE HUMIDITY

actually, i’m planing on making a whole separate thread about this as this subject has been a research project of mine for the past couple weeks - presently, i have seen some studies which has suggested there is a relationship between humidity and the ability to web, climb vertical surfaces, etc

every animal in nature is subject to this - even humans - what’s relevant is the humidity ranges which various animals can tolerate

it’s even relevant with respect to arid, desert dwelling species of whom can be hydro-sensitive and would have adverse reactions to high humidity levels

i will however read the article you’ve posted and the below is an example study involving the relationship between humidity ranges and climbing - which is part of my aforementioned research

i am also curious - if humidity is irrelevant and can be dismissed then why not keep so called “moisture dependent species” in arid, desert like conditions? or for that matter, why bother with top soil and not just use cocofiber? why not mix cocofiber with sand and strip the whole terrarium of moisture? why overfill the water dish at all? it would seem like a pointless gesture if it’s truly irrelevant

article 1:

The influence of humidity on the attachment ability of the spider Philodromus dispar (Araneae, Philodromidae)

Hairy attachment devices that are not supplemented with fluid secretion have evolved independently in lizards and spiders. van der Waals forces have previously been shown to be responsible for excellent adhesive properties of these structures, but it ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[BoyFromLA]

Well, not specifically for Asian arboreals, but there was this post previously:

Welcome to the wonderfull world of humidity

What do you think about humidity, does it matters? This thread is about arguing (like adult people) about different perspectives of the same thing, the humidity in our tarantula enclosures. Everyday living conditions, breeding etc. Overall does it matter? So don't be hesitant posting your...

arachnoboards.com

 

[l4nsky]

What data can you show? Do you know how tarantulas intake moisture?

This link below can teach you a good bit on tarantulas and humidity, how they use moisture, Its a long read but worth it. They are not like reptiles which many people fall blindly too.

MYTHS: RELATIVE HUMIDITY

Respectfully, I think your link shows the data requested. This thread is on Asian Arboreals in particular, which are almost exclusively moisture dependent, rainforest dwellers. Schultz never called them that however. He lumped a lot of these rainforest tarantulas under the title of 'swamp dweller' and discussed their need for higher humidity. IMO, that article also contradicts itself in a few places as well and is approaching a decade in age, but there's a lot of solid info there.

 

[AmbushArachnids]

What data can you show? Do you know how tarantulas intake moisture?

This link below can teach you a good bit on tarantulas and humidity, how they use moisture, Its a long read but worth it. They are not like reptiles which many people fall blindly too.

MYTHS: RELATIVE HUMIDITY

Its not so much how they intake moisture but how the climate effects the loss of water. It’s a fair argument from my observations that moist or damp substrate decreases water loss just as effectively if the cage was dry and you placed it in a extremely humid climate with lots of ventilation.

I hypothesize that arid species would experience much less water loss than species found in rain forests when given a dry cage. Simply because they have systems that have adapted differently to those conditions.

When the substrate is moist you are in fact putting water into the air above the soil. This is dampening the water loss from the spiders body.

 

[l4nsky]

was doing research and thought i would ask my pals here - for those that keep them, what’s your recipes for substrate?

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/l4nskys-methodology.343787/post-3161925

how do you achieve the correct humidity parameters?

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/l4nskys-methodology.343787/post-3161926

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/l4nskys-methodology.343787/post-3161927

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/the-paradoxical-importance-of-humidity.346451/post-3190549

It’s a fair argument from my observations that moist or damp substrate decreases water loss just as effectively if the cage was dry and you placed it in a extremely humid climate with lots of ventilation.

You're not too far off, but you need to find a way to make sure the humid air goes through the burrow. Otherwise, the burrow will in all likelihood have a lower RH then the enclosure as moist air rises.

Notice how dry the substrate is. How am I not only keeping a moisture dependent species in a dry enclosure on dry substrate, but she's still carrying an eggsack and not abandoning/eating it? Would it surprise you to learn that her burrow was still 80-82 degrees and ~75%+ RH after not adding water to the substrate for 5 weeks? Is she in a standard Sterilite tote (more on that a bit later)?

...

Now, as to the enclosures I've alluded too above. These are second generation prototype enclosures that modify and control the temperature and humidity in a tarantula's BURROW/HIDE, not the ENCLOSURE. Think about the ramifications of that. I plan on doing a full writeup soon, but I'm unable to get the pictures I need to complete it.

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/achievement-s-unlocked.351180/

I hypothesize that arid species would experience much less water loss than species found in rain forests when given a dry cage. Simply because they have systems that have adapted differently to those conditions.

When the substrate is moist you are in fact putting water into the air above the soil. This is dampening the water loss from the spiders body.

We share the same hypothesis.

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/the-paradoxical-importance-of-humidity.346451/post-3190548

 

[The Grym Reaper]

I use a mix of topsoil, sedge peat, and fine vermiculite for everything.

I don't water on a schedule, when the sub looks like it's drying out I heavily overflow the water dish until a good chunk of the bottom layers of sub are moistened, rinse & repeat.

 

[Dorifto]

I have never checked humidity, ever. Not for any species.

But this doesn't mean that it won't matter, simply that in your case, you can ignore it.

They need moisture, that simple. All of my pokies are kept with reptisoil, that I let dry out a bit, then over flow a water dish

And doing that you are raising humidity too, and indeed it's a good way do it.

Misting is not required for any species whatsoever, unless it is to offer them a drink.

Misting the enclosure to keep it humid is the worst way to do it, even if it helps. If it's done occasionally to to offer them a drink I don't see any problem.

This link below can teach you a good bit on tarantulas and humidity, how they use moisture, Its a long read but worth it. They are not like reptiles which many people fall blindly too.

Even if there is a lot of useful info there, the way he exposes it, makes it a bit confusing to be honest.

Also he shows a lot of forms on how a tarantula can loss moisture, and here, humitidy level affects the rate of water absorption, so clearly it affects them. Also they are not fully sealed, there is a bit of transpiration, not too much, but still some. If I remember correctly, that waxy layer can melt too, due to deposition of lower meltin point lipids. If I find the articles I'll link to them.

Also it doesn't mention that while molting and after a molt they are more exposed to water loss, because the epicuticle is not completely formed, so another situation where they are affected by humidity. And even the case it's formed completely, there is nothing preventing the the air from taking the moisture between the molts, someone said stuck in molt? Well yes there is something, humidity.

Also we should forget that to have humid conditions damp or wet substrates are needed.

Would you say this is humid or dry?



That's paraguana GBBs habitat, 80% of humidity on average.

Sometimes a simple water dish is enough to provide enough moisture to the air to keep it humid, depending on the size and ventilation of course.

 

[YungRasputin]

thought this might be useful to mention - this thread was started with Citharognathus hosei + Omothymus violaceopes in mind - that’s why i am trying to be 100% sure of this because i’ve heard- both species are v particular when it comes to environmental parameters

 

[l4nsky]

thought this might be useful to mention - this thread was started with Citharognathus hosei + Omothymus violaceopes in mind - that’s why i am trying to be 100% sure of this because i’ve heard- both species are v particular when it comes to environmental parameters

While I can't weigh in on the O. violaceopes personally, I have been keeping C. hosei for 7 months. Started with 0.0.3 2i slings and I haven't had an issue, even after switching to weekly husbandry from a previous biweekly schedule. They're ravenous little monsters.

 

[Dorifto]

how do you achieve the correct humidity parameters?

Sorry for the previous "off topic"!!


Good ventilation and a good mix of substrate. Any peat based topsoil should work to achieve a correct releasing of moisture.

You don't need a excessively loose substrate like coco fiber, even if it holds a lot of moisture, the gaps in between helps to that moisture to evaporate quickly, so if the evaporation rate is way higher than the moisture spreading speed (from moister to a drier spot) you will end with a dry top layer, but wet bottom. So better to stick to a bit more compact substrate with good spreading capabilities.

Did you considered plants? They help a lot too. Taking moisture down low and releasing it via transpiration.

Ventilation wise, it's well known that I preffer convection style enclosures. They help taking moisture (humidity) from the moist substrate and distributing it across all the enclosure until it releases from the top. That's why is important to have good ventilation on the lid, if not this lighter and more humid air can create excessively humid spots on top if there is no scaping points there.

 

[cold blood]

But this doesn't mean that it won't matter, simply that in your case, you can ignore it.

as long as one keeps the substrate (regardless of sub type) damp, thats precisely what it means.

 

[Dorifto]

as long as one keeps the substrate (regardless of sub type) damp, thats precisely what it means.

Wrong

If you have found the right spot in your husbandry, it doesn't magically convert it irrelevant, simply that in that case you can "ignore" it.

You are solely focusing that to be humid you need damp substrates, and that's not completely true. While in drier clinate like yours this is "true", in other types of climates, enclosures etc that same level of moisture could be contraproductive. To be humid, the substrate it doesn't neccesarily needs to be damp. And if everyone that believes, because there is people that still believes humidity doesn't affect at all Ts, expends 5 minutes of their lives trying to understantd it rather than ignoring it, a lot of issues would be avoided, maybe not their issues, but yes issues derived from their advices. Simply that you are keeping any species with the substrate dry, it doesn't mean that enclosure is lacking humidity.

If it's irrelevant, why not to keep all your Ts bone dry? as @YungRasputin mentioned? Pretty good point tbh.

I would not like to derail another thread explaining it. It only takes 5 minutes of our lives to understand it.

 

[YungRasputin]

I would again ask - if humidity is completely irrelevant why can’t I keep my future Singapore Blue in a sandbox? why is everyone insistent that they be kept on consistently damp substrate? following the logic of these arguments i should be able to fill an Exo Terra with sand and keep them with no issues