Are you as bothered about this as much as I am

P. Novak

P. Novak

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
6,218
As long as the person he sold it to knows that it was cross bred, and knows what to do with it(like get rid of the sac once its laid, or keep the babies to himself, or if selling them MAKE sure he sells them as hybrids and doesnt sell them to anyone that doesnt understand the problem with hybrids.) I think it'll be fine. I mean I know it isn't right but tere isn't anything we could do now.
 
David Burns

David Burns

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
1,681
Thanks for posting this. Now I can try it. ;)

Actually, I have heard this kind of thing has happenned with Haplopelma, Poecilotheria, Brachypelma, Hysterocrates, Avicularia, Psalmopoeus and probably others.
 
Snipes

Snipes

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
1,385
Since this sort of thing happens naturally, i am not a hugely against cross breeding. I mean, look at avics! I do have a problem with selling a potentially gravid female with cross bred offspring. If one is to cross breed, they should do it themselves and if they sell it, the NEED to mention it in bold letters. I think it was an irresponsible thing to cohabitate and then sell the female IMO.
 
Stylopidae

Stylopidae

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
3,200
I'm planning on doing a project with hybrid identification in the far future, but when I do it the spiderlings will remain in my care and will not be sold. They will be in thier own seperate cabinet to avoid confusion.

There are only a handfull of people I would send them to if they expressed interest (researchers and scientists) and I would not even charge them shipping.

Were I unable to care for them, I would freeze them instead of selling them.

This is the only ethical way to hybridize.
 
G

Giantsfan24

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
95
I see zero problem with this. Reptiles have been hybridized for years and it makes for some cool crosses. As long as the person buying one know it is a hybrid, what is the problem? Now I say all this assuming making hybrids does not cause any sort of physical abnormality(like a persian cat having a hard time breathing because foolish people like that look).
 
P. Novak

P. Novak

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
6,218
Giantsfan24 said:
I see zero problem with this. Reptiles have been hybridized for years and it makes for some cool crosses. As long as the person buying one know it is a hybrid, what is the problem? Now I say all this assuming making hybrids does not cause any sort of physical abnormality(like a persian cat having a hard time breathing because foolish people like that look).
Click to expand...
THe problem is that the tarantula world is already messed up as it is. Adding more species would make it harder to correctly ID which species is which. I am pretty sure reptiles are much easier to ID then arachnids.
 
David Burns

David Burns

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
1,681
If I go buy a Hysterocrates Hercules spiderling. Another person in another city buys a spider that is sold under the name Hercules baboon tarantula and he takes it home. He does some research and posts picures on the Boards, from the feedback and his research he determines that he has a female H.hercules. My spiderling matures, after some time, to a mature male. Is end it off to him and he breeds them. We split the sac of slings and sell them as H.hercules.

Now are they H.hercules?

Are you sure what you have in your collection is what you think it is? Was your specimen compared, under a microscope, with the holotype of that species?
 
ShadowBlade

ShadowBlade

Planeswalker
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
2,591
David Burns said:
Are you sure what you have in your collection is what you think it is? Was your specimen compared, under a microscope, with the holotype of that species?
Click to expand...
What is your point? The cleaner we keep species unhybridized, gives us that much more of a chance to keep breeding T's in captivity long after their habitats are destroyed. Which is happening at an alarming rate for Avicularia and Poecilotheria both of which whom's genus is already screwed up.

Just because we can't be 100% accurate all the time, doesn't mean we can't keep it as clean as possible.

Plus the fact hybrids totally throw a wrench into captive breedings due to the adult's sometimes un-willingness to mate. I'd sure hate to send a MM P. pederseni to someone who thought he had one, turns out it was a hybrid and eats the male.

-Sean
 
David Burns

David Burns

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
1,681
I think this topic doesn't take into account that the classification of mygalomorphae is still in flux. The fact that the breeding is in the hands of hobbiests is only going to muddy the waters.

Also, Hybrids of Mygalomorphs are sterile. If they are viable then the original classifications were wrong.:wall:
 
Last edited:
Talkenlate04

Talkenlate04

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
8,655
I am agreeing to disagree. An overwelming number of T keepers see the value of each individual species by itself, and dont feel the need to make new ones that would never occur in the wild
( I am not saying never, but some of the things people are trying to do would really never happen on their own)
I personally think its a waste of time and not needed. It can be done yes, but should it be?

There is proof arising from overseas with breeders that have interbred species, there can be sterile clutches, deformities, short life spans, ect.

Think of it this way. You fell in love with Ts for a reason, why go changing that reason.....

But much like Novak I am not going to lose any sleep over it if it happens, I just will make sure I steer clear of anyone selling something like that.
 
TheDarkFinder

TheDarkFinder

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
930
David Burns said:
Also, Hybrids of Mygalomorphs are sterile. If they are viable then the original classifications were wrong.:wall:
Click to expand...
Why is that?

Everyone that has answer this question so far needs to do a lot more research before they continue to prove how uneducated they are.

here is a little help.
1.) do a search, there are so many threads on this it is sicking.
2.) read a biology book, or at least read something about hybrids. Do not give the answer that you, deep down inside, want to be right, but make sure it is right.

So that I do not have to come back to this tread.

the answer to my question is, no; Two valid species can produce a offspring and still be two species. The question is between genus, can two genus cross and still be classified as two different genus. The answer is of course yes you can and you do not need to reclassify anything.

OK So big print so that it get through.

THERE ARE MORE FERTILE HYBRIDS THEN INFERTILE AND NOT BY JUST A LITTLE BUT BY SUCH OF AMOUNT THAT IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Give you two examples.

1.) About 3/4 of all birds produce fertile hybrids, specific combinations not random.

2.)There are only about 300,000 cataloged species of plants, but there are 100,000 different orchid hybrids, that are fertile, of orchids. With in orchids alone there are only 25,000 species, but as stated above, there are 100,000 hybrids.


With orchids, hybrids are a mess, and yes it did destroy some species.

I'm not arguing the genetics or ethics of this.
 
David Burns

David Burns

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
1,681
TheDarkFinder said:
Why is that?

Everyone that has answer this question so far needs to do a lot more research before they continue to prove how uneducated they are.

here is a little help.
1.) do a search, there are so many threads on this it is sicking.
2.) read a biology book, or at least read something about hybrids. Do not give the answer that you, deep down inside, want to be right, but make sure it is right.

So that I do not have to come back to this tread.

the answer to my question is, no; Two valid species can produce a offspring and still be two species. The question is between genus, can two genus cross and still be classified as two different genus. The answer is of course yes you can and you do not need to reclassify anything.

OK So big print so that it get through.

THERE ARE MORE FERTILE HYBRIDS THEN INFERTILE AND NOT BY JUST A LITTLE BUT BY SUCH OF AMOUNT THAT IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Give you two examples.

1.) About 3/4 of all birds produce fertile hybrids, specific combinations not random.

2.)There are only about 300,000 cataloged species of plants, but there are 100,000 different orchid hybrids, that are fertile, of orchids. With in orchids alone there are only 25,000 species, but as stated above, there are 100,000 hybrids.


With orchids, hybrids are a mess, and yes it did destroy some species.

I'm not arguing the genetics or ethics of this.
Click to expand...
What I said, still stands. What you say can be true, too. We are talking about different animal kingdoms.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top