Are true P. subfuscas (highlands) rare in the market these days?

DeTwan

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Hi,
More or less an old timer here. I havent been collecting for a number of years, but my highland kandy ornamental molted about 3 months ago. She is about 7-9 years old. I was looking thur the classified ads, and for the life of me I cant find any MM for her. Finding a MF looks just about impossible. And singles and Junvs are hard to find as well.

Back in the mid-oughts you could find them everywhere. And they where a pretty penny too. I remember get my first one from Michael Jacobi that that was about 3.5inches for around $350.
I was talking to someone on here more recently and they said that I would be lucky to get $250 for my girl whom is about 6-7inches....really.

I dont know if I just dont see more ads in the classified b/c of arachnoboards silly new policies or if the population of the species has declined over the last ten year.

All in all, I'd like to buy a MM male for her, or sell her, one of the two. And know the going rate for true MF Highland kandy ornamentals.
 

YagerManJennsen

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You could post a "Want To Buy" notice in the classifieds section Or look around on online dealers (not reptile dealers). If you just want to to pair them up and not spend the money buying a MM, Post in the Invertsonals section, thats where you go if you want a breeding loan. They send the spider temporally just for pairing then you send it back to the owner.
 
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advan

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Hi,
More or less an old timer here. I havent been collecting for a number of years, but my highland kandy ornamental molted about 3 months ago. She is about 7-9 years old. I was looking thur the classified ads, and for the life of me I cant find any MM for her. Finding a MF looks just about impossible. And singles and Junvs are hard to find as well.

Back in the mid-oughts you could find them everywhere. And they where a pretty penny too. I remember get my first one from Michael Jacobi that that was about 3.5inches for around $350.
I was talking to someone on here more recently and they said that I would be lucky to get $250 for my girl whom is about 6-7inches....really.

I dont know if I just dont see more ads in the classified b/c of arachnoboards silly new policies or if the population of the species has declined over the last ten year.

All in all, I'd like to buy a MM male for her, or sell her, one of the two. And know the going rate for true MF Highland kandy ornamentals.
"Highland Kandy" is an oxymoron. It is probably one of the lowest elevations in which you'll find P. subfusca. The spiders from Nuwara Eliya are the true "highlands." Good luck finding any P. subfusca with actual or even accurate locale information with it in the hobby anymore. Sad really.

Female supposedly hatched from WC parents out of Nuwara Eliya.
 

Poec54

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"Highland Kandy" is an oxymoron. It is probably one of the lowest elevations in which you'll find P. subfusca. The spiders from Nuwara Eliya are the true "highlands." Good luck finding any P. subfusca with actual or even accurate locale information with it in the hobby anymore. Sad really.

Female supposedly hatched from WC parents out of Nuwara Eliya.

Agree. Kandy is at or under 1,800 feet and has a hot tropical climate; I was following the daily temps for a while and it was similar to Florida's. There is no 'true Highland Kandy'; the Highland form is from Nuwara Eliya, which is over 6,000 feet elevation. As a tropical plant collector, I can tell you that plants from 6,000 feet will not live in Florida unless they're grown indoors; our summer nights are too warm (sometimes the morning low here is 82 degrees). In the wild, the Highland and Lowland forms are unlikely to ever get close enough to pair up. So many subfusca have been mislabeled for years in captivity (Highland sold as Lowland, and vice versa), odds are most in the hobby are of mixed parentage. The Highland form (above) has more black on it's carapace & legs and has a black folium; it's also a smaller spider. The Lowland form ('bara') is larger with more white and gold on it. What anyone's subfusca was called when they bought it is almost irrelevant. In fact, I suspect the common name for some changed depending on what the customer was asking for. As for prices, I doubt anyone's going to pay anywhere near $350 these days for a female subfusca. Prices have been coming down on many species for years.

Question for the OP: is your subfusca as black as the one in the picture? Or does it have more gold/white on the carapace and a lighter colored folium?
 

DeTwan

Arachnoknight
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Agree. Kandy is at or under 1,800 feet and has a hot tropical climate; I was following the daily temps for a while and it was similar to Florida's. There is no 'true Highland Kandy'; the Highland form is from Nuwara Eliya, which is over 6,000 feet elevation. As a tropical plant collector, I can tell you that plants from 6,000 feet will not live in Florida unless they're grown indoors; our summer nights are too warm (sometimes the morning low here is 82 degrees). In the wild, the Highland and Lowland forms are unlikely to ever get close enough to pair up. So many subfusca have been mislabeled for years in captivity (Highland sold as Lowland, and vice versa), odds are most in the hobby are of mixed parentage. The Highland form (above) has more black on it's carapace & legs and has a black folium; it's also a smaller spider. The Lowland form ('bara') is larger with more white and gold on it. What anyone's subfusca was called when they bought it is almost irrelevant. In fact, I suspect the common name for some changed depending on what the customer was asking for. As for prices, I doubt anyone's going to pay anywhere near $350 these days for a female subfusca. Prices have been coming down on many species for years.

Question for the OP: is your subfusca as black as the one in the picture? Or does it have more gold/white on the carapace and a lighter colored folium?
Here is an image of her from about 3 months ago. Like I said, she is about 8-9yrs old. Got her back in '09 from a pet shop in Denver CO at about 2inches in length. Every molt she has gotten darker and darker. I've tried to breed a few time to no avail, but she produced her first phantom sack this spring.
And as mentioned, me calling it Kandy is not referring to me think mine came from there. All I know is that it was sold to me as a p. subfusca (highlands), and that is what I suspect it is. I had owned one other of these species back in 2006, sold to me from none other than Jacobi. looked very similar.
 

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Poec54

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Both forms look similar, all the more so when they're from mixed parentage. Yours doesn't seem to be as dark as the one in the picture Advan posted, it's folium definitely isn't. Yours may be mixed.

My personal view is that the combining of subfusca and bara into a single species did the hobby no favor, as it gave the green light to crossing the two. There was some confusion prior to that, but once taxonomically merged, most caution about pairing the two up went out the window.

If you got her in 2009 at 2" she's 7 years old, and still in her prime. I'd breed her this year or next, as in a couple years her reproductive abilities may gradually start to decline.
 

DeTwan

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Both forms look similar, all the more so when they're from mixed parentage. Yours doesn't seem to be as dark as the one in the picture Advan posted, it's folium definitely isn't. Yours may be mixed.

My personal view is that the combining of subfusca and bara into a single species did the hobby no favor, as it gave the green light to crossing the two. There was some confusion prior to that, but once taxonomically merged, most caution about pairing the two up went out the window.

If you got her in 2009 at 2" she's 7 years old, and still in her prime. I'd breed her this year or next, as in a couple years her reproductive abilities may gradually start to decline.
I am actively looking to pair her, but since Ive only been a member for 9 years and 6 months I no longer have the ability to post in the classified ads.
I have how ever posted in the Invertsonals section with no responses. As I look over the For Sale section daily I see little to no one sell what I am in search of.
 

Trenor

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I am actively looking to pair her, but since Ive only been a member for 9 years and 6 months I no longer have the ability to post in the classified ads.
I have how ever posted in the Invertsonals section with no responses. As I look over the For Sale section daily I see little to no one sell what I am in search of.
Just in case you didn't know. If you do a few more posts and you'll be active. This will allow you to post in the classified ads section. Nice looking female you have. Good luck if you try to pair.
 

Angel Minkov

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I've noticed they're not that readily available even here in Europe... I rarely see them for sale, good thing I got 5 slings as a present from a good friend from Denmark, can't wait for them to get bigger :)
 

KezyGLA

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I've noticed they're not that readily available even here in Europe... I rarely see them for sale, good thing I got 5 slings as a present from a good friend from Denmark, can't wait for them to get bigger :)
I have seen them quite regularly advertised here in Europe. UK, Germany and Poland.

As to werher all listed will be true sp. I would doubt it.
 

DeTwan

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Well hopefully I finally got lucky. I purchased 3 off of a reputable member that are 3-4in. They were listed as highland and the seller confirms that they are from a reputable breeder. I really dont see much going on breeding wise though, just from observing the boards. All in all, I have done my research on breeding and am hoping to get this girl prego. I think she has some rather strong genetics compared to the exist market of today. Hopefully these are true "highlands" that I receive. Feeling the luck!!!
 

DeTwan

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Got 2 males it looks like and 1 female. Sold to me as "highlands" form.
One of the males just molted, and here is a pic of the suspected female and freshly molted male.
 

Haksilence

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Got 2 males it looks like and 1 female. Sold to me as "highlands" form.
One of the males just molted, and here is a pic of the suspected female and freshly molted male.
Yours, to me, looks certainly to be mixed. If you didn't post the first two photos I would have said it was a lowland.
 

Marijan2

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Yours, to me, looks certainly to be mixed. If you didn't post the first two photos I would have said it was a lowland.
Agreed, those are pretty light.

On another note, i also have one female subfusca HL and very hard time finding male for her, i had one years ago but my female was not ready back there...
 

DeTwan

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Im sure they are a mix to some degree, I dont think that anyone in the US or perhaps the Euro market have true Nuwara Eliya genes anymore.
When you say they look light, I think you are just referencing most images of adults that just molted that you see on the web, some of which are over 15 years old. They darken with every molt as they age. What gives these away as being more of the HL variety is that the sub-adult female pictured above has as rather darken carapace, and her posture. HL forms tends to be small in overall size, but legs are actually bulkier on HL whereas the LL has skinner legs, and posture I think is a very good give away. HL form doesnt tend to 'stretch' out like the LL form when relaxed. The HL form more or less never spreads out, and more or less keeps a posture closer to baboon species. As for the abdomen (folium) and maintaining black pattern down it...might be a sign of truer HL genetics, but I havent seen anyone that has those types of genes in the US market at least on a AF. The male that just molted keeps with those markings, so I think it may have more to do with the sex, and not the form. Please post up images of your LL form and your HL form @Haksilence @Marijan2.

Pretty damn sure this is as close to HL form you will find in the US
 
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DeTwan

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cold blood

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haha, I wrote find:banghead: yeah, clearly you have males...lol....good luck pairing when the time comes.
 
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