Arboreal Lividum

Mez

Arachnoknight
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
215
Hi guys,
We have a sub adult/adult lividum at work, since she's been in she's gone arboreal.
Nothing daft happening, substrate is Eco earth and humid, say 2 inches of it...can't add anymore as it will become a pet hole...hasn't fed.
We got two in, both same supplier, both kept the same. The other one eats fine and is terrestrial.
The arboreal one still has attitude and looks healthy.
Any ideas?
Thanks
James
 
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Mez

Arachnoknight
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
215
Hm, maybe. I would presume it would try to build a small burrow, rather than just not bothering at all, unless this is a characteristic of lividum specifically?
 

crawltech

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
1,701
You said it, Chris....

OP...i hope you`ve at least provided some sort of hide for it

better yet, you prolly shouldnt have got a burrower if you didnt want pet hole
 

Hobo

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Staff member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
2,206
Hi guys,
We have a sub adult/adult lividum at work, since she's been in she's gone arboreal.
Nothing daft happening, substrate is Eco earth and humid, say 2 inches of it...can't add anymore as it will become a pet hole...hasn't fed.
We got two in, both same supplier, both kept the same. The other one eats fine and is terrestrial.
The arboreal one still has attitude and looks healthy.
Any ideas?
Thanks
James
I'm assuming when you say work, you mean the petstore that you own/work at?
I understand you probably have to keep it visible for sales, and since you actually cared to give it a humid environment with correct sub and know it's not supposed to be arboreal, that you knew to give it a hide as well.
If not, then do it. If it can't burrow, it'll need a place to hide. You can adjust the hide so customers can still see the spider even if she hides.

Mine was very finicky about his hiding spot, and never ate, stopped climbing around or even tried to burrow at all until I made her a starter burrow. I've read of other cobalts that are happy (they eat and don't wander all the time) to live in a hide, So I'm guessing some individual spiders of this species are more adaptable than others. I guess you've got a "burrow or nothing" spider.

Try a hide, see how that works out.
If not, I guess either try a burrow, or wait her out until she's so hungry she eats.
 

Ictinike

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
460
substrate is Eco earth and humid, say 2 inches of it...can't add anymore as it will become a pet hole...
James,

First welcome! I say this because I don't believe I've seen any of your posts nor replied to them, so for me, it's welcome :)

Second, the quote above in regards to becoming a "pet hole". H. lividium are a deep burrowing species and that is their nature. Many in captivity will not burrow as they would in the wild and while that's for the T to work out it's in your best interest to give the spider as much substrate as you can and allow it to decide.

Adding more substrate and providing a "starter burrow" by depressing some of the substrate or digging out a small hole under a hide may entice your T to continue what you've started.

My girl personally has never dug one herself so I've provided one for her which she happily has take residence within. She's far happier now since doing so a year ago and prior, while not going arboreal and climbing the walls, would happily sit on top of her hide spinning a half tube web on top of the hide and sides of the enclosure.

I would recommend providing more substrate and possibly giving it a start of a burrow and see how it goes there but again they are a typical "pet hole" and while this may not be what you want it's in their nature and should have been considered when you purchased the species.

Cheers,
 

Mez

Arachnoknight
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
215
Yes, I work in a pet shop, and have personally kept reptiles, amphibians, aquatics and inverts for a long time.
Yes, if it was mine, it would be on seven inches of substrate filled to the top pretty much. We are a shop, we can't give them 7 inches of substrate, and most do fine. Stout leg baboon has made a burrow, lots of other stuff burrows.
I don't own the shop, and have to follow certain orders.
Of course it has a hide, I'm not stupid, I also know how to care for
them, I was just asking specifically why you guys thought it was climbing.
Please don't judge me on the fact this is my second post (I did say hi in the introduction thread!) and I work in a pet shop. Most shops keep them in tiny tubs with vermiculate...we have all ours in display cubes set up for the individual animal (within reason) and stock includes nhandu, pamphobeteus, aphonopelma, brachypelma, e. Campestratus, g. Pulcheripes etc.
 

Mez

Arachnoknight
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
215
Hold on.....I should have what?
Did you read the post? I am not asking from a customer point here, I work in a shop, I'm not a customer who has seen a nice looking blue thing in a shop and thought i know - I will buy that haplopelma to match my curtains, Im asking from a shop basis what can be done. We have to try to educate people on these things, we label them up and someone who knows about t's comes in and will know it's in it's burrow if I give it huge amounts of substrate, wheras a newcomer won't know there anything in there and won't even ask - a newbie who sees the tarantula out is more likely to give it a proper enclosure with proper conditions after I explain what it really needs. See what I mean?
 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,363
...and have personally kept reptiles, amphibians, aquatics and invertsfor a long time.
Of course it has a hide, I'm not stupid, I also know how to care for them.
This doesn't make sense to me, but you seem to know what you're talking about. :rolleyes:

nhandu, pamphobeteus, aphonopelma, brachypelma, e. Campestratus, g. Pulcheripes etc.
Since you've been in the hobby for such a long time, and since you're not stupid, why are you capitalizing the species name but leaving the genus lowercase? It's the opposite, you know.

Also, it's spelled pulchripes.

Your lividum is climbing because it's not happy. As people have already stated, individual spiders may have peculiar habits and may or may not be comfortable in an enclosure that hasn't been set up properly for their needs. This particular individual is probably quite unhappy not being able to burrow.

The other one eats fine and is terrestrial.
The arboreal one still has attitude and looks healthy.
H. lividum are obligate burrowers. Nothing you do regarding their enclosure will change that. Your two specimens are not arboreal and terrestrial, they are obligate burrowers who are being denied the opportunity to burrow.

Just a little fyi to add to your vast invert knowledge base.

Next time, stop giving people attitudes for trying to help you out. You didn't indicate that you worked in a pet shop (despite a vague insinuation that you had the lividum at work), so for you to get your panties in a wad because people suggest you house the spider properly is rather inappropriate, wouldn't you say?
 
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Chris_Skeleton

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
1,310
Hold on.....I should have what?
Did you read the post? I am not asking from a customer point here, I work in a shop, I'm not a customer who has seen a nice looking blue thing in a shop and thought i know - I will buy that haplopelma to match my curtains, Im asking from a shop basis what can be done. We have to try to educate people on these things, we label them up and someone who knows about t's comes in and will know it's in it's burrow if I give it huge amounts of substrate, wheras a newcomer won't know there anything in there and won't even ask - a newbie who sees the tarantula out is more likely to give it a proper enclosure with proper conditions after I explain what it really needs. See what I mean?

If you're recommending H. lividum to new T keepers, then I don't even know what to say. Honestly, only the people who see the hole and the name and know what you are talking about should be purchasing this. You shouldn't be trying to sell this species to "newbies" anyway, this is far from a beginner T. That said go ahead and give it enough substrate to burrow, then when an "experienced" keeper wants to see it, persuade it out.
 

malevolentrobot

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
310
my opinion (since i work at a pet store too), present evidence that the tarantula is not being housed properly and it could cause damage to the tarantula or death, which means the store will lose money. i've had to do this on more than one occasion, and even though it puts ripples in the water, ethically you are on the right side of the arguement and should not be punished for voicing your concerns if done in an apropriate manner. also, buisnesses don't like losing money, so if you work that angle it might turn out in your favour.

H. lividum is a terrible idea to order, especially before researching about it (which would have answered your question quite easily), unless you have a large following of invert keepers at your store. though strikingly beautiful, they are the very definition of the opposite of display spiders, and 95% of your customers should not be buying them PERIOD. i see them every so often on the order sheets here, but i've done my homework and know its a terrible idea.
 
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advan

oOOo
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
2,041
since it is out and about, snap a few pics, pick the best one, post it on the cage and add more substrate. :D
 

Ictinike

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
460
Hold on.....I should have what?
Did you read the post? I am not asking from a customer point here, I work in a shop, I'm not a customer who has seen a nice looking blue thing in a shop and thought i know - I will buy that haplopelma to match my curtains, Im asking from a shop basis what can be done. We have to try to educate people on these things, we label them up and someone who knows about t's comes in and will know it's in it's burrow if I give it huge amounts of substrate, wheras a newcomer won't know there anything in there and won't even ask - a newbie who sees the tarantula out is more likely to give it a proper enclosure with proper conditions after I explain what it really needs. See what I mean?
Sorry if you seem to "read" into my statements..

I properly read your initial post and while you said "at work" no where did you imply you worked in a pet shop and I'm not a mind reader.

Since I now know this your post and the level of substrate as well the comment about being a pet hole are now understood however there's no need to come off persnickety and omnipotent on me/us about your level of keeping inverts.

While I still believe the climbing could be due to not having enough substrate I also understand you need something "flashy" to show to customers. A question that begs to be asked is once a prospective client comes in asking about care of those cobalt blues are you going to have them understand that they typically are pet holes and how you have them setup now is NOT the proper way? I figure it could net you a few more pounds due to the extra costs of substrate, etc you could sell them.

I'll say welcome again since I did not read your "welcome" post; forgive me, and leave it at that.

Cheers,
 

Mez

Arachnoknight
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
215
I'm very aware of the Latin and Greek capitolisation, however my iPhone believes anything after a full stop should have a capital letter.
Lol, I would have to disagree about lividum not being for beginner if you give them loads of substrate and humidity, they're pretty hardy, no?
Probably not good for a beginner who wants something to hold and sit in the open, but someone who keeps something like
Phelsuma or Cyrtodactylus, or Ahtuella prasina, could appreciate that this is their role in the environment and they will accept that....beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that...
Yeah I just work there, not the owner, if I was the owner it'd have plenty of substrate!
You are of course correct that one isn't arboreal and one terrestrial, that was just poor wording on my behalf!
They are often out exploring and webbing up, I'll get some pics later on in the week of the antonious, klugi, lampropelmas etc.
Also, yes, we have a decent base of invert keepers, and if we didn't we never would have if we just stocked G. Rosea and Brachys!
Oh yeah, what's with the underlining of inverts? Surely arachnids fall under the invertabrate category?
Cheers..
James
p.s sorry if it seems like trolling, I'm really not!
 
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AbraCadaver

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
296
Yeah, I've seen an aroboreal lividum.. In a petshop with idiots behind the counters, with crappy enclosures and zero knowledge. And just because a spider is hardy, it does not make it good for beginners. Most beginners would be scared pantless by the attitude in some lividums.

Another thing is why, why, WHY would you even keep a lividum in a petshop!? They are burrowers, they need a burrow. This makes them useless as display animals in a shop. And anyone with half a brain would research these animals before getting into them, and then they wouldn't even buy them in a place that treats their animals like this. So all in all, they are useless as petshop animals. But of course, you know this, as you have probably swallowed an entire library with yout vast knowledge.
 

briarpatch10

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
67
And anyone with half a brain would research these animals before getting into them, .
I have seen alot of people in pet shops...most of them ..well yeah they have no brains at all let alone half of one! {D {D


I love your sig...the drug thing is funny as hell!
 

Mez

Arachnoknight
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
215
Why is it all about beginners? It's not a small little shop, we have over 100 vivariums full of reptiles requiring varying degrees of knowledge to care for them, why can't the invert section be the same? Beginners to tarantulas want different things, not all want a T they can hold, it totally depends on the person..
Also, let's stop making out I know nothing, and everything, I never said I had a "vast" amount of knowledge, this isn't what I specialise in, but i'd say I know more than your general local pet shop worker.
...I said in the earlier post I am fully aware of the substrate depth that is ideal, and actually just wanted to know why it's climbing rather than use a hide or dig a small burrow, which is possible.
Anyway, I think I will add more substrate, if I don't pile it too high maybe the boss won't notice!
 

AbraCadaver

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
296
Because it's generally beginners that purchase spiders at shops. That's why.

And the invert section should be the same, but keeping a lividum in conditions that make it "arboreal" doesn't display any kinds of knowledge. It displays foolishness and greed. And that's what winds people up here. That you think, not of the animal, but making it more sellable. 2 inches of substrate is not near enough for a lividum to make any sort of burrow, it's enough to dig a hole in the ground. ANd they don't want hides, they want burrows. It climbs because you're treating it wrongly. Simple as that. Can't take to hear it, change the setup or get out of here, because you will get no support when you don't want to take proper care of the animal.

You say you've kept inverts for a long time? Then you should know these simple things. That is why we are mentioning the "knowledge" thing. You SHOULD know better, but you clearly don't.
 

SpiderGuy814

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
27
Why is it all about beginners? It's not a small little shop, we have over 100 vivariums full of reptiles requiring varying degrees of knowledge to care for them, why can't the invert section be the same? Beginners to tarantulas want different things, not all want a T they can hold, it totally depends on the person..
Also, let's stop making out I know nothing, and everything, I never said I had a "vast" amount of knowledge, this isn't what I specialise in, but i'd say I know more than your general local pet shop worker.
...I said in the earlier post I am fully aware of the substrate depth that is ideal, and actually just wanted to know why it's climbing rather than use a hide or dig a small burrow, which is possible.
Anyway, I think I will add more substrate, if I don't pile it too high maybe the boss won't notice!
Why are you worrying about your boss noticing you doing the RIGHT THING? why are you so afraid to stand up for the same animals that you have no problem selling? I'm sure if you pulled the legs off of the spider your boss would have a hissy fit and probably fire you for treating it incorrectly and making it un sale able (thats wrong i know lol) but any customers who are experieced in tarantulas might just boycott your store if they love tarantulas as much as we do if they come in there and see an "Arboreal Lividum " which is definitely an oxymoron because they don't exist. how would you feel if someone wasn't letting you do something in life that came natural to you and caused you to act out? it would make you feel uncomfortable and so on. I realize tarantulas dont have emotions and all that technical stuff but you should always treat ALL animals with the proper respect they deserve and this goes for the way you house them, feed them and so on. And its illegal for your boss to fire you for doing your job. and part of your job is making sure these tarantulas and other animals are properly taking care of while in your care.
 
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