Arachnid Mentorship

YungRasputin

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
403
one of the things i really love about venomous snake keeping is it’s mentorship culture where new keepers just getting into it seek out and learn under established keepers (in some states it’s required to receive your dangerous animal permit) and i was wondering, why isn’t this a thing within arachnid keeping?

i realize people here might say it’s unnecessary or ridiculous or something but i would counter with - there’s a lot of benefits to such a culture/system - thoughts?
 

0311usmc

Arachnobaron
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
332
Im going to start off with it being unessesary. Do you really need someone to guide you on how to keep dirt moist or dry? Or if it needs an arboreal, terrestrial or fossorial set up with plenty of ventilation? Thats really all you need to know about keeping tarantulas.
 

LucN

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
315
As a whole, while people fear spiders, only a small percentage of them are actually medically significant. The same could possibly apply to the majority of scorpions. You hear more about deadly snake bites than deadly spider bites. But I would agree that a mentorship concerning arachnids (medically significant or not) should be encouraged and even become mandatory if necessary. It would cut down on a lot of impulse purchases and people would probably get it through their heads via a mentor that handling is never a good idea. We'd probably see much less "Help ! My spider fell and its bleeding ! WIIL IT BE OK ?!" type of threads. And serious mentorship would probably deter a lot of potential idiots out there. I'd be for it 100% !
 

Liquifin

Arachnoking
Active Member
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
2,110
Tarantulas are very simple animals to keep, which is why there really isn't a need for mentorship for most if not everyone. But I do recommend mentorship if possible.

There are lots of benefits and you will learn 1000% faster when under a mentorship. I was "sort of" under mentorship myself, but that was just because I chose too. The only thing I do advise on mentorship that is a little bit of a downside is that sometimes you learn things that are a bit outdated or inaccurate with the times of modern keeping. So I suggest learning somethings yourself over a mentorship, but overall you can a lot.

If there is one thing everyone needs to learn from mentorship that will help you: it's the business side of the hobby. You will not succeed as easily if you are trying to sell tarantulas by yourself with no guidance.

Having to learn from other tarantula vendors, breeders, wholsalers, etc. Sped up the business aspect for me. I hate to say it, but the majority of new tarantula businesses fail because they can't compete or understand the market/business. The tarantula market is so niche and complex compared to reptiles, it's not just supply and demand. Just because you're a good breeder, it doesn't make you a good business person. So mentorship is not mandatory, but I recommend them for future breeders, sellers, vendors, etc.
 

zoroastrianpulchripes

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
52
one of the things i really love about venomous snake keeping is it’s mentorship culture where new keepers just getting into it seek out and learn under established keepers (in some states it’s required to receive your dangerous animal permit) and i was wondering, why isn’t this a thing within arachnid keeping?

i realize people here might say it’s unnecessary or ridiculous or something but i would counter with - there’s a lot of benefits to such a culture/system - thoughts?
would be a nice thing to have, but almost everyone with a spider isnt that much of a newbie to need it. the only people who would use it would be people who havent even done any research into the spider they´re getting. simply put; it would be useless.
 

YungRasputin

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
403
to clarify this post is moreso a thought experiment than something i think should be mandatory and so on - it was something i’ve been thinking about

and instead of quoting a bunch of people i will post some additional thoughts - i v much disagree with the conception of arachnid husbandry being a “jar of dirt”

like, i understand that this conceptualization can be useful for new or moderately experienced keepers re: basic husbandry but i think there’s levels to this (eg: the really good advanced humidity thread) and i think arachnids deserve more - it’s cool if you’re new but we should always be pushing ourselves to do more and do better (that’s my philosophy anyway, i love that there’s always new things to be learned)

also, not all keepers limit themselves to tarantulas - i started off with true spiders and scorpions, a lot of which had potentially lethal venom eg: Hottentotta tamulus (which has a recorded lethality percentage of 12-40%)

not only this, there are some species of T’s which could v easily require a trip to hospital - eg: Selenocosmia crassipes, Poecilotheria genus, Heteroscoda maculata, Stromatopelma calceatum, Cyriopagopus schmidti, etc

one benefit i have focused on here is not just husbandry but also, spider behavior and “handling” (not actual handling as in holding them but handling as in working with them in specific contexts eg: rehousing, correct systemic problems within the enclosure, transferring for breeding, etc)

i think personally it could be really beneficial to have some there beside a student keeper when rehousing certain species, particularly, OW species or demonstrating how to do X, Y, and Z - what we have rn is primarily YouTubers - which is good and all but it’s like with my drumming - i learn more from my teacher than i do YouTube vids

idk been thinking for awhile that if people treated arachnids more like venomous snakes and less like toys we as a “hobby” would have a lot less problems
 

RezonantVoid

Hollow Knight
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
1,354
one of the things i really love about venomous snake keeping is it’s mentorship culture where new keepers just getting into it seek out and learn under established keepers (in some states it’s required to receive your dangerous animal permit) and i was wondering, why isn’t this a thing within arachnid keeping?

i realize people here might say it’s unnecessary or ridiculous or something but i would counter with - there’s a lot of benefits to such a culture/system - thoughts?
This is a very interesting idea, not something I've thought much about before. I can definitely see benefits to it, but I'd say it would be best suited to primarily trapdoor keepers, as trapdoors as a whole have a massive variety of soil preferences and habitat requirements for an astonishing variety of complex burrow/lid designs, that simply cannot be achieved with the methods most people use to keep tarantulas. I wish I had somebody 4 years back telling me to ditch peat moss for clay and sand, to be making vertical embankment setups for Idiopids, and to grow mosses for lid construction.

I've learnt more in 1 and a bit years of talking closely with hobbyists and collectors in private conversations than I have in 3 years of only reading on arachnoboards. Not to say AB hasn't been incredibly helpful, just that learning from others who don't just keep but also see wild habitats in person can help immensely with improving one's overall knowledge and husbandry skills
 

Hakuna

Arachnoknight
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
210
Are we comparing Ts to venomous snakes again? Why would you need a teacher for something easier to take care of than most plants?

How much responsibility does it take to own such an animal?

Will it kill you, or just put you in the hospital?

Should it require 1000 hours of interaction before your right to own?
 

YungRasputin

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
403
Are we comparing Ts to venomous snakes again?
y not?

Why would you need a teacher for something easier to take care of than most plants?
people say this like there’s not 1,000s of threads about husbandry related problems

How much responsibility does it take to own such an animal?
apparently a lot

Will it kill you, or just put you in the hospital?
for some people such as myself, it could be both - not everyone sticks to NW tarantulas

Should it require 1000 hours of interaction before your right to own?
no, i don’t think so, and this sort of thing doesn’t exist in WV which is to say FL’s 1,000 hr rule is not standard throughout the US or elsewhere
 

Hakuna

Arachnoknight
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
210
Apples and oranges.

K.I.S.S. Method is best method.

Let AB be your mentor instead, if you can navigate the site.

This kind of private mentoring with Ts just seems like it would result in closed minded cliques and parroting misinformation.

There’s nothing left up to interpretation with hot snakes.
 

YungRasputin

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
403
Apples and oranges.
not really

K.I.S.S. Method is best method.
i find this to be stifling tbh

Let AB be your mentor instead, if you can navigate the site.
i love learning from this site but me personally, this is just a hypothetical and the only actual mentorship i’ve considered is for venomous snakes

This kind of private mentoring with Ts just seems like it would result in close minded cliques and parroting misinformation.
this would differ from the differing discussion groups how? people have said that AB is “elitist” and yet it’s the best game in town

There’s nothing left up to interpretation with hot snakes.
nor is there for some of the specimens i both currently have and have had - not to mention all sorts of people reject the ladder system and recommend/encourage brand new keepers to get specimens like pokies as their first T - something which can easily be a hospital trip and several weeks of symptoms

further, just because you don’t die doesn’t mean envenomation will be a walk in the park - my black widow envenomation was the most painful thing I’ve ever experienced
 

Hakuna

Arachnoknight
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
210
You gave your hypothetical, I gave you a realistic approach.

It’s laughable that you would compare snakes to tarantulas, or even true spiders. Nothing about their behavior is comparable.

The only people who call AB elitist, are the ones that come here and don’t get the response they are looking for. Most of them are snowflakes.
 

YungRasputin

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
403
You gave your hypothetical, I gave you a realistic approach.
i don’t think this demarcation of yours actually exists - both are hypotheticals considering we’re discussing things which don’t exist - the real discussion is pros and cons and i don’t think dismissing things out of hand is v much fun

It’s laughable that you would compare snakes to tarantulas, or even true spiders.
the LD50 disagrees with you

Nothing about their behavior is comparable.
what do you mean? their behavior is extremely similar - snakes are chill and docile and would rather bolt/flee than fight as their venom is just as precious of a resource as it is to arachnids - it’s not going to waste venom it needs to feed if it doesn’t have too and they suffer from the same stigmas of “hyper-aggression” as arachnids

The only people who call AB elitist, are the ones that come here and don’t get the response they are looking for. Most of them snowflakes.
agreed but feel this doesn’t negate what I’ve said
 

Hakuna

Arachnoknight
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
210
I think you severely underestimate the responsibility of having hot snakes vs. tarantulas

Ironic that you would bring up LD50
 

YungRasputin

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
403
I think you severely underestimate the responsibility of having hot snakes vs. tarantulas

Ironic that you would bring up LD50
not all venomous snakes are on the level of king cobra - there’s absolutely levels to that hobby eg: mangrove snakes are low level venomous snakes, copperheads may not kill you but will definitely fudge you up and taipans will kill you

the exact same situation as scorpions eg: giant desert hairies are low level venomous, arizona bark scorpions may not kill you but will fudge you up, and Indian Reds will kill you
 

Hakuna

Arachnoknight
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
210
Correct...sort of. I fail to see the point you’re making here though. I’m talking about legit hot species, not rear fanged venomous
 

DomGom TheFather

Arachnoprince
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
1,975
I see little benefit for their to be a requirement but i know most of us started out with no one to look to. It will benefit the animals in question if the keeper is taught the do's and don'ts from the start by someone with experience but people will always make their own mistakes. Hands on learning under supervision is tried and true. I thought my son would be my bug kid. Nope. It's my daughter and she'll probably end up being a better keeper than i am, someday... Hopefully.
 
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