Aptostichus miwok eggs???

[CornMarx]

Hello! I know this is my first post on this account, I use to be active 8-9 years ago but I can no longer get into my account. So I made a new one!

That being said, I just recently started getting back into the hobby, and part of my new collection is an aptostichus stephencolberti who I think may be a male, and a lovely aptostichus miwok who I thought immediately looked female. I recently rehoused her and tonight I noticed she was out so I took a few photos and noticed with my phone's light I can see round eggs through the bottom of her (at least I hope those are eggs!) My girlfriend came over and sees them too, so I know I'm not just seeing them. Her rump is definitely fat, she dined on a dubia nymph about a week ago. She was just moved into her current enclosure about a day ago but its big enough it is supposed to be her permanent home. I'm gonna link the photos, can I get a second opinion from someone? You have to zoom in and look carefully you can see a bunch of white balls in her. Thanks guys much love!!

 

[RezonantVoid]

Unsure about the eggs, but may I ask if she's still wandering on the surface like in the above photos?

 

[CornMarx]

Unsure about the eggs, but may I ask if she's still wandering on the surface like in the above photos?

No wandering, that was the night I moved her into the new enclosure, she was yet to have a burrow. She's since taken to the premade hole I made for her.

 

[RezonantVoid]

No wandering, that was the night I moved her into the new enclosure, she was yet to have a burrow. She's since taken to the premade hole I made for her.

Looking closer, I think I can see eggs. I can't say 100% say she does or doesn't, but I'd remain optimistic. It depends how long ago she was caught and if she's molted since.

I notice you've added a reasonable amount of sand to the sub, but from what I can tell online that's not quite enough to mimic natural conditions as this is a coastal species. If you google them, many wild photos of them or their burrows are found in nearly pure sand, presumably right on the beach or a riverbank. If at all possible, I would strongly recommend you try and procure some wild sand from one of these environments and use it for her instead. As someone who keeps hundreds of different trapdoors, I definitely think you will have greater success with any potential sacs as well, as trapdoors very quickly eat sacs as soon as they feel stressed or out of place.

Here's a few references photos I found on but guide, note that these are taken years apart but still all appear in a similar environment

BugGuide.Net - Insects, spiders, and their kin

An online resource devoted to North American insects, spiders and their kin, offering identification, images, and information.

bugguide.net

Where I'm at now in Australia, I've got a few coastal Stanwellia species around me I've been collecting. So far, all unknowingly gravid ones housed in peat have eaten their sacs, but the 1 housed in beach sand has had a huge clutch of around 80 or so. Hope this tip may help, and best of luck should she drop a sac for you mate

 

[CornMarx]

Looking closer, I think I can see eggs. I can't say 100% say she does or doesn't, but I'd remain optimistic. It depends how long ago she was caught and if she's molted since.

I notice you've added a reasonable amount of sand to the sub, but from what I can tell online that's not quite enough to mimic natural conditions as this is a coastal species. If you google them, many wild photos of them or their burrows are found in nearly pure sand, presumably right on the beach or a riverbank. If at all possible, I would strongly recommend you try and procure some wild sand from one of these environments and use it for her instead. As someone who keeps hundreds of different trapdoors, I definitely think you will have greater success with any potential sacs as well, as trapdoors very quickly eat sacs as soon as they feel stressed or out of place.

I also have what appears to be a male aptostichus stephencolberti, he's out right now actually I'll go ahead and attach some photos below. He's still in the vial he was sold to me in but I have a few more acrylic enclosures in the mail right now, I was planning on putting more sand in his sub mix because they are from the rock sides on the west coast, would it be worth moving the miwok to another enclosure with more sand when they come in, or would two moves in a week stress her out? Thank you so much for the pointers much love! I wish I could get better pics of it because in person you can pretty easily see little off white orbs in her tummy. I'll keep taking pics of her as her burrow develops, she recently closed herself off entirely and she still moves up and down in the burrow but I don't even think she's constructed a door or cover she appears to have just capped it off. Hopefully all goes well and I have a bunch of pin sized trapdoors in the next few months

 

[CornMarx]

Okay so it's been almost a month and I have a big update. I named her spring, and spring buried herself away after those photos and I noticed she made a plug not a trapdoor, so I stopped offering food at some point as she wasn't eating, but I'm still providing moisture through occasional misting. I went and misted tonight, and through the side of the enclosure I could see spring... And an egg case. She took it with her deeper into the burrow probably because of the light, so I didn't get a picture, but if I look carefully down through the hole I can still see it. Pretty unmistakable. I'm absolutely in awe and don't really know what to do. I have no idea if the case is fertile or if spring will just go and eat it, but if it is fertile would anyone know about how long until they hatch out???

 

[RezonantVoid]

Okay so it's been almost a month and I have a big update. I named her spring, and spring buried herself away after those photos and I noticed she made a plug not a trapdoor, so I stopped offering food at some point as she wasn't eating, but I'm still providing moisture through occasional misting. I went and misted tonight, and through the side of the enclosure I could see spring... And an egg case. She took it with her deeper into the burrow probably because of the light, so I didn't get a picture, but if I look carefully down through the hole I can still see it. Pretty unmistakable. I'm absolutely in awe and don't really know what to do. I have no idea if the case is fertile or if spring will just go and eat it, but if it is fertile would anyone know about how long until they hatch out???

Wait about 40 days, and then pull the sac. Prepare a plastic container with no ventilation holes and line it with damp paper towel or tissue paper. If you cut open the eggsac, the slings should be EWL stage and be able to survive fine if you tip them into the container.

Trapdoors almost never lay phantom sacs, I've kept hundreds of adults over 3 years and never had a single sac that wasn't fertile. I'd say there's a good chance of it being a legit sac

 

[CornMarx]

Wait about 40 days, and then pull the sac. Prepare a plastic container with no ventilation holes and line it with damp paper towel or tissue paper. If you cut open the eggsac, the slings should be EWL stage and be able to survive fine if you tip them into the container.

Trapdoors almost never lay phantom sacs, I've kept hundreds of adults over 3 years and never had a single sac that wasn't fertile. I'd say there's a good chance of it being a legit sac

Momma spring is positioned directly over the egg sac I'm worried about stressing her. She ate a few fat roach nymphs before getting transfered and me making this post so she started this journey plump. Would it be possible to leave the sac with her until they hatch, dump into a rubbermaid outfitted with substrate, fish spring out and let the babies form their own burrows, and feed them for a few molts and then seperate out? Or even just dump into a rubbermaid and directly seperate out into individual enclosures? Or should I just pull the egg sac? I'm sorry for the wall of text I just want to make sure I do everything right

 

[RezonantVoid]

You can always wait for them to hatch and spread on their own, but you do run the risk of the mother eating the sac and some of the slings needlessly cannibalizing the smaller ones.

As regards to sling housing, I'd put them all into 1 large tub of substrate. It will save you ALOT of time feeding, as you can dump heaps of pinheads in instead of seperating individual tiny feeders 1 by 1

 

[CornMarx]

Alright I was able to manage a photo of her today that you can see the egg sac in, it's faint bc she's pushed a lot of sub against the sides of her tunnel, but my girlfriend also saw it, in person it is unmistakable she's holding a big silk bag!

 

[RezonantVoid]

Definitely looks like a sac! It's unusual that she's moving it around though, most of the time it stays suspended for support threads in the burrow

 

[CornMarx]

Definitely looks like a sac! It's unusual that she's moving it around though, most of the time it stays suspended for support threads in the burrow

Is it possible she's still new to holding the sac? I only noticed it the other day and I check on her every 1-3 days, when I first saw her with it she shot down into the hole and I could see her ontop of it, maybe she was trying to web it up and suspend it and I interrupted? Today when I took that photo she seemed much less inclined to bolt, and last night she extended her plug up into a turret of sorts. She physically expanded her burrow and she's now all the way up top in the new expansion and the egg is below her. Hoping I didn't stress her too much

Edit to add potentially useful information: the turret she built may be from the day she laid the egg. Now that I think about it, I checked on her in the first place bc I noticed her burrow was larger, and then I saw the egg case. So the "turret" she's built may actually be a few days old, something she built to prepare for the sac

 

[CornMarx]

Snagged another photo, definitely a proud momma!

 

[RezonantVoid]

Snagged another photo, definitely a proud momma!
View attachment 377519

Most trapdoors will seal off their burrow during molting or sac laying, so the funny looking mound isn't too unusual. I think i can see one of the support strands in the last photo, (top right corner of the sac), so it looks like she has physically attached it now

 

[CornMarx]

Today is the big day! Stayed up all night cleaning my house, decided to pull the sac tonight rather than waiting until tomorrow. Opened the sac and was greeted by what looks to be 50-100 beautiful little eggs with legs. After they molt to 2i should I separate them? Should I feed before or after I separate?

Here's the lil babies

 

[RezonantVoid]

Today is the big day! Stayed up all night cleaning my house, decided to pull the sac tonight rather than waiting until tomorrow. Opened the sac and was greeted by what looks to be 50-100 beautiful little eggs with legs. After they molt to 2i should I separate them? Should I feed before or after I separate?

Here's the lil babies

View attachment 379219

Congratulations! Wait for them to molt again and harden up to the point of crawling around, and then try offering them prekilled pinheads or baby roaches

 

[CornMarx]

Congratulations! Wait for them to molt again and harden up to the point of crawling around, and then try offering them prekilled pinheads or baby roaches

As goofy as it sounds, after watching videos of other mygalomorph egg sacs, I realized that they aren't eggs with legs but are at the 1st instar I think? They are able to crawl a bit on their own and are moving albeit at a turtles pace. They still have fat rump's so I can tell they have yolk still, wait until they darken up and molt again to offer their first meal?

 

[RezonantVoid]

As goofy as it sounds, after watching videos of other mygalomorph egg sacs, I realized that they aren't eggs with legs but are at the 1st instar I think? They are able to crawl a bit on their own and are moving albeit at a turtles pace. They still have fat rump's so I can tell they have yolk still, wait until they darken up and molt again to offer their first meal?

They are still what I'd call EWLs, it won't be until at least another molt before they look like proper spiders. Wait until they darken after the next molt before offering food. Just keep the tissue/paper towel slightly damp and the lid tightly on, and check them every 2 days. Before long they will darken and molt to 2i

 

[CornMarx]

I set them up in an incubator design I saw here on AB, they are in a deli cup on a coffee filter, and then that is inside a "moisture box" of sorts, basically a tupperware with tiny holes in the lid, and a paper towel that I've been keeping moist. Does this setup sound good or should I be moisting the coffee filter? Thank you so much for all your help I'm super pumped to get these little dudes a good head start in their life journey

 

[RezonantVoid]

I set them up in an incubator design I saw here on AB, they are in a deli cup on a coffee filter, and then that is inside a "moisture box" of sorts, basically a tupperware with tiny holes in the lid, and a paper towel that I've been keeping moist. Does this setup sound good or should I be moisting the coffee filter? Thank you so much for all your help I'm super pumped to get these little dudes a good head start in their life journey

This is all I ever use for my slings until second instar, and then I put them in their communal tubs. Literally just a container with damp tissue paper. Your method will work as well, I just find this one is the most stress free and easiest to maintain.