Anyone want to rate the letter I sent my roach-hating Dad?

[gambite]

I tend to express myself better in writing, and my Dad seems to like reading better than listening to people. The moment I mentioned starting a dubia colony, he was all "THERE WILL BE NO ROACHES IN THIS HOUSE!". I tried to explain it to him, but he would not listen to me. So, I wrote him this letter. Is it all accurate?

Dad, sometimes I cannot tell if you actually care about me keeping invertebrates, or if you dont want me to keep them simply to disagree with me. Actually, I take that back. I honestly cant tell at all. If anything happens to them, it is my responsibility. If I feel that it is too much for me to take care of, then I will gladly get rid of them. I can always sell them back to the Pet Shop, or I can easily sell/give them away online.

But about the roaches. The ones I want to start a colony of are not 'cockroaches' or common house roaches. They are not dirty, they cannot run fast, and cannot fly or climb. They cannot survive very long outside of their enclosure without ample food and water, and cannot breed without a large amount of constant heat. They do not smell at all, and do not make noise. They are pretty, easy to handle, and often play dead. They are the perfect pet food.

Crickets, on the other hand, are only common as pet food because of this common phobia of roaches that you seem to share. While they might look cute, crickets can be very aggressive, and can easily kill young invertebrates. I honestly fear picking them up, as they can bite. I would much rather handle a scorpion or tarantula than a cricket. Crickets can also jump and escape easily. Crickets stink horribly, and die quickly. I recently found one dead in my tarantula's tank, covered in mold, only two days after putting it in. Every time I want to feed a cricket to one of my scorpions, I have to spend five minutes breaking off its back legs to make sure that it wont jump away from them. Cricket colonies are also very hard to maintain. The eggs and young must be separated, or else the older ones will eat them. Crickets need a lot of space, and the dead, of which there are always many, must be removed frequently to prevent mold and parasites. Crickets are also notorious for transferring deadly diseases to invertebrates. After one week of sitting on my desk, a small box of a dozen crickets gives off a smell noticeable from a distance. Imagine how horrible a whole COLONY of them would be.

My other option is to simply keep buying crickets from the store as I have been. This comes out to be about $4-10 per month. The crickets come in boxes of 24, but I have yet to see a box of them that is not less than half dead. So, after a year, I will have spent about $48-120 just on crickets, most of them dead.

On the other hand, a colony of Blaptica dubia roaches (the type I have been referencing) would cost about $30-50 to start. I will need the roaches, a plastic tub, a heat pad, some shredded boxes, food and water-crystal dishes, along with food and water crystals. However, once I get it started, it will run itself without a problem. All I need to do is add food and water-crystals as needed. They dont need any substrate, which could grow mold, and their slow breeding rate can be controlled by how much heat they are given. If I somehow get too many of them, I can freeze the extras. I am sure Bennett would love them, and I have already recommended that his store start its own colonies of them.

Here is a link to a large thread about them, on a forum that I now frequent:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=463
Its has all the information I just gave to you.

I hope you will reconsider your banning of them.

Thanks for reading,
Me

 

[Farom]

The first paragraph sounds very, very immature. I'd remove it.
Rest of it ain't that bad.

 

[gambite]

I agree, it is. But, I have been dancing around the issue with him for months now, and I am tired of it. I want to be blunt about it now. If he brings it up, I will try to diffuse any hostility and discuss it with him as openly as possible. I think it has roots in his inability to stop trying to control the finer aspects of my life, which I am getting sick of.

 

[KyuZo]

Well, i just read it and it's not bad at all. you pointed out good things, but they do smell just a little bit, not as bad as crickets.

my parents didn't want me to keep them either. I told them that i also like to play with guns , so i can either collect guns or roaches.
and if they don't like either of that i can go play with the kids in the dark alley. i did gave them the option to say no.
o yea, if you are from Texas or New Mexico, i don't think that your dad would mind you playing with guns. things are different here in Cali.
I am not saying that you should consider taking the options above, my point is that you should put it in your dad's head that you have a good hobby to keep you out of trouble.
good luck buddy, i hope your dad will approve of you keeping roaches.

 

[tyrant963]

lol i have that same problem, my parents dont approve roaches, as they think of the filthy roaches that you find in old homes. They barely approved me having a scorpion. But as far as the letter, i may want to use it myself

 

[Mr. Mordax]

Agreed that it sounds very informative, but are you sure your dad will read the whole thing through . . .

I saw on your profile you're a college student -- what are the possibilities of you moving out in the near future? Living at home, my parents would let me keep almost nothing at all. As soon as I got to college, all that changed.

If you do move out and then get a dubia colony up and running, invite your dad over to see for himself. Alternatively -- are there any local invert keepers that can show your dad their own colony?

 

[gambite]

Agreed that it sounds very informative, but are you sure your dad will read the whole thing through . . .

I saw on your profile you're a college student -- what are the possibilities of you moving out in the near future? Living at home, my parents would let me keep almost nothing at all. As soon as I got to college, all that changed.

If you do move out and then get a dubia colony up and running, invite your dad over to see for himself. Alternatively -- are there any local invert keepers that can show your dad their own colony?

Well, I am looking to rent an apartment for the summer. Usually, I work away form home all summer, but some...circumstances... prevent that this year. I live in the dorms, even though I live 15 minutes away from my college! My house is just too crazy, and I am doing everything in my power to get away. What bugs me the most is that my Dad tries to keep me from keeping my pets in the dorm, even though its ME that lives there, not him. Like I said, he has trouble letting go.

No one around me that I know of has any colonies, no.

If anyone wants to use this for convincing their parents/spouses, go right ahead. I pride myself on my writing ability

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[Mr. Mordax]

Dude, that sucks . . . I'm glad I was the last kid, 'cause my parents had NO problem getting rid of me. Trouble with the dorms is not letting the RA find out.

If you're in the dorms you could just keep 'em in the closet and not tell your dad about it if he visits. Kind of sucks that you wound up going to school that close to home.

 

[vvx]

Honestly I somehow doubt it will change his mind, and with all the negative comments about crickets he might just decide not to let you keep any of those either.

And while they aren't really capable of infesting a home, they can live for a long time until they die off. It could take months for them to die off if they got loose. I just wouldn't bother with roaches until you're somewhere you're allowed to have them. Live in an off-campus apartment at college and pay the pet deposit and do it right.

As for boxes of 24, every pet store I've been to sells them in bulk. Petco and Petsmart are the only two I've seen them prepacked in boxes. Petco carries some box of 50 I think, assorted sizes. Costs $5.something, and I've never seen a box that wasn't half dead while frequently they were all dead. Petsmart carries the 24 in a couple sizes and they're decent looking often enough, but still rather pricey. It's something like $3.50 for the box of 24.

Since both places sell crickets in bulk for $0.08-$0.10 each the prepacked boxes are not a very good deal. I suppose if you had 90 seconds to run into the store and buy crickets it's worth it in an emergency but otherwise I'd wait the 5 minutes it takes to get someone to bag up some bulk crickets for you. That way you can also buy just what you need instead of a box of whatever. Just ask in the fish section for bulk crickets.

 

[gambite]

Actually, it was my first choice in schools! I dont want to completely abandon my family, I just dont want to live with them. I have a lot of involvements in the area that I am not ready to stop, anyway. I have had a few close calls with the RA, I need to get it all off my desk and off in a corner not visible from the door :wall:

 

[thedude]

lol cant wait to go to colllage... im thinking of going to PSU and there fairly laxed on keeping inverts from what ive seen, but i think you have to keep them in the ento lab, im not sure but im trying to look into it

 

[Galapoheros]

My dad told me that he would pay for my college as long as I went to a school out of the town they live in LOL! That was good for me. It's not abandonment though your dad might make you feel like that when you try to get your independence. I suppose I would wait until I had my own place. Your dad sounds like a control freak on the surface(?). It's hard to get people like this to understand. They can make you feel like you are hurting them when all you want is to have your freedom, independence and to take care of yourself. That's what parents are suppose to want for their kids ...IMO! In a big way these people are thinking about themselves allot more than it appears on the surface and not so much the other person, yet they can seem so generous. Some people want to feel important and they only know how to feel like that by controlling people around them. I'm not necessarily talking about your dad, I don't know him, I'm just rambling a little. Also, your dad might think it's weird that you like bug things in general and might be trying to make you "fit in" better by discouraging you keeping things like that. My parents didn't get it either but they tolerated it and thought I'd outgrow it. Good luck!

 

[Mr. Mordax]

Also, your dad might think it's weird that you like bug things in general and might be trying to make you "fit in" better by discouraging you keeping things like that.

I hope that's not the case for anyone here . . . I fit in fine with people despite (but quite frequently because of) my "weird" hobbies. A lot of non-bug friends are intrigued by the bugs and I've even converted a few.

Agreed as well on Galapoheros' comment on the abandonment topic . . . Part of college is becoming an independent person, and by the time you're 18 you should be able to live your own life. Parents are still a part of that life, but they shouldn't have absolute control over it.

 

[Mister Internet]

I tend to express myself better in writing, and my Dad seems to like reading better than listening to people. The moment I mentioned starting a dubia colony, he was all "THERE WILL BE NO ROACHES IN THIS HOUSE!". I tried to explain it to him, but he would not listen to me. So, I wrote him this letter. Is it all accurate?

Your idea to present your sid of things in a format that doesn't contribute to escalating tempers and heated discussion is admirable... quite likely the best way to handle it, given your circumstances.

Dad, sometimes I cannot tell if you actually care about me keeping invertebrates, or if you dont want me to keep them simply to disagree with me. Actually, I take that back. I honestly cant tell at all. If anything happens to them, it is my responsibility. If I feel that it is too much for me to take care of, then I will gladly get rid of them. I can always sell them back to the Pet Shop, or I can easily sell/give them away online.

Not only is this a really immature way to start a discussion, but it's also an immature attitude to have towards the keeping of invertebrates in general... the minute you start thinking of this hobby as "something you can just sell back to the Pet Shop (is that truly an option, have you actually checked this out with the pet shop you're referring too?)", etc,

So, I would remove it entirely, and leave it out if you're not able to express your thoughts without immediately putting your Dad on the defensive in the discussion... I wouldn't expect his to have ANY sympathy with the idea that if "anything happens" that it will be "your responsibility". If "anything happens", he'll have cockroaches loose in his house, which is a situation he doesn't want, regardless of how much responsibility you're willing to take.

But about the roaches. The ones I want to start a colony of are not 'cockroaches' or common house roaches. They are not dirty, they cannot run fast, and cannot fly or climb. They cannot survive very long outside of their enclosure without ample food and water, and cannot breed without a large amount of constant heat. They do not smell at all, and do not make noise. They are pretty, easy to handle, and often play dead. They are the perfect pet food.

...except for the fact that almost all literature refers to all roach species as "cockroaches" for convenience's sake, and there is no such thing as a "common house roach". What roach is or isn't "common" to an area depends largely on locality. Your use of the words "dirty" and "fast" are completely relative as well... your enclosure will get dirty if you let it go, make no mistake about it, they are not "self-cleaning" creatures. Also, since the distinction made here is between roaches and crickets, any use of "fast" is best left out, as they move faster than any crickets I've ever had.

Crickets, on the other hand, are only common as pet food because of this common phobia of roaches that you seem to share.

It's comments like this that are unnecessarily accusatory in nature and will be detrimental to your cause... best left out.

While they might look cute, crickets can be very aggressive, and can easily kill young invertebrates. I honestly fear picking them up, as they can bite. I would much rather handle a scorpion or tarantula than a cricket. Crickets can also jump and escape easily. Crickets stink horribly, and die quickly. I recently found one dead in my tarantula's tank, covered in mold, only two days after putting it in. Every time I want to feed a cricket to one of my scorpions, I have to spend five minutes breaking off its back legs to make sure that it wont jump away from them. Cricket colonies are also very hard to maintain. The eggs and young must be separated, or else the older ones will eat them. Crickets need a lot of space, and the dead, of which there are always many, must be removed frequently to prevent mold and parasites. Crickets are also notorious for transferring deadly diseases to invertebrates. After one week of sitting on my desk, a small box of a dozen crickets gives off a smell noticeable from a distance. Imagine how horrible a whole COLONY of them would be.

Wow. You're engaging in the same hyperbole against crickets that your Dad is engaging in against roaches. You're making a lot of quantitative, declarative statements that might be generally true, but are far from "the final truth" on the matter. I've observed cricket colonies that were fastidiously maintained and had no odor... the crickets lived noticeably longer as well. Also, I'm not sure crickets are "notorious" for being parasite vectors anymore than keepers' dirty hands or clothes. Sure, it happens, but it's hard to state that it's some giant whispered secret in the invert hobby when people have been feeding exclusively crickets for a couple decades now.

Bottom line is, it IS hard to keep a colony of crickets odor-free and healthy... but it's certainly not impossible, and I'm not sure that its difficulty justifies all your statements...

My other option is to simply keep buying crickets from the store as I have been. This comes out to be about $4-10 per month. The crickets come in boxes of 24, but I have yet to see a box of them that is not less than half dead. So, after a year, I will have spent about $48-120 just on crickets, most of them dead.

You're exaggerating again... you go from half dead to mostly dead in the same breath. This is the textual equivalent of raising your voice in an argument... Keep it about the cost, and a reasonable estimate of death.

On the other hand, a colony of Blaptica dubia roaches (the type I have been referencing) would cost about $30-50 to start. I will need the roaches, a plastic tub, a heat pad, some shredded boxes, food and water-crystal dishes, along with food and water crystals. However, once I get it started, it will run itself without a problem. All I need to do is add food and water-crystals as needed. They dont need any substrate, which could grow mold, and their slow breeding rate can be controlled by how much heat they are given. If I somehow get too many of them, I can freeze the extras. I am sure Bennett would love them, and I have already recommended that his store start its own colonies of them.

Keep in mind, this is true of the startup costs, but if you start with only $30-$50 worth (100-200 colony), you will need at least a year to get it to a sustainable level. So, you'll be buying crickets that whole time as well....

I think your heart is in the right place, writing a letter is a very mature and effective way to lay out the details for a discussion. However, I fear you might be prone to using a lot of the same "Raise your voice" mechanisms in text that would pop up in a heated discussion. Try to keep it just about the facts... deal with his SPECIFIC concerns, don't feel like you have to sell every positive about roaches and/or spotlight every negative about crickets. Explain why they're a good idea, explain why they're unable to climb and what that means for their ability to escape the specific enclosure you're planning to keep them in, and ask if you guys can re-visit the discussion. if the answer is no, the answer is no... I had to wait until I had my own house to have large snakes, so some things in life you just gotta wait for... his house, his bills, his rules, unfortunately.

Best of luck!

 

[Sevenrats]

Dude. I'm going to be blunt. You are not a child. You are an adult. You have reached a point in your life where you have different interests or beliefs from your dad. It is YOU the adult, unwilling to respect his feelings in HIS house.

Of course, try to make him understand that the roaches are not as bad as he thinks. If however, you fail to convince him, forget about the roaches, or MAN-UP and get your own place. (which means employment and bills and rent and buying your own food)

Then you'll have to convince your roommates or significant other or landlord about the roaches.

Welcome to independence, dude.

 

[Sooner]

You can always say you're raising a colony of invertebrates, called Blaptica dubias.

Make it a habit to not call them roaches and just call them dubias. They don't look much like roaches, just grab a female one and show it to ignorant folks and say "look, my dubias!". It's sneaky but its better than cannibalistic crickets. ;P

Boomer!

 

[edesign]

I would rather pick up a cricket than a scorpion or tarantula...sure crickets bite, that's why you grab them on either side of the body to pick them up.

How many T's are you feeding? I had 9 T's at the peak of my collection plus a couple scorpions and a centipede. Going to the pet store once a week to get a few crickets was not that hard and they didn't smell that bad in those quantities unless you stuck your nose in the bag.

Mr. I's comments are spot on...I have nothing to add that he hasn't already pointed out.