Anyone keep Crotalus atrox?

[MetallicArachnid]

I've been around wild Crotalus for years and I'm looking to get an atrox in the next couple of years, can I see some picture of your enclosures?

 

[schmiggle]

Have you kept a super mean, bitey snake before? I've read a few places that you should before keeping a hot snake. Then when you figure that out it will make keeping hots easier. I would not go lightly into keeping a venomous snake, even if you've been around them a lot in the wild.

 

[MetallicArachnid]

Have you kept a super mean, bitey snake before? I've read a few places that you should before keeping a hot snake. Then when you figure that out it will make keeping hots easier. I would not go lightly into keeping a venomous snake, even if you've been around them a lot in the wild.

Texas rats, move crotes and gopher snakes off the road all the time. I've also become adept with hooks and tubing snakes.

 

[schmiggle]

Fair. Do you know viper keeper on youtube? I imagine he could be helpful if you're looking for enclosure ideas. I would love to see videos when you do get one.

 

[MetallicArachnid]

Fair. Do you know viper keeper on youtube? I imagine he could be helpful if you're looking for enclosure ideas. I would love to see videos when you do get one.

Yeah I've seen him and he does have some nice enclosures...also I notice that he has some slip ups that are going to get him tagged oneof these days.

 

[The Snark]

I've been around rattlers for years and I'm wondering why you want to keep rattlers. ???

 

[MetallicArachnid]

I've been around rattlers for years and I'm wondering why you want to keep rattlers. ???

I think they're interesting snakes, why do we want to keep spiders or pythons same reasons

 

[The Snark]

I think they're interesting snakes, why do we want to keep spiders or pythons same reasons

This could be illuminating. How about sharing your set up? The actual containments, the containment room, the security measures you implement, the tools used for feeding and handling and so on. ???

 

[MetallicArachnid]

This could be illuminating. How about sharing your set up? The actual containments, the containment room, the security measures you implement, the tools used for feeding and handling and so on. ???

I'm planning on a building separate from the house designed to prevent unauthorized entry and as escape proof as possible ie. vents covered, no windows, heavy door with reinforced deadbolt, for feeding 24 inch hemostats and my 40 inch hooks, tongs I still need, and my tubes for handling as well as heavy boots and chaps as an additional layer of protection. I also intend to keep 10 vails of CroFab on hand and talk to my doctor about it so that in the situation I am bitten he can assist medical staff, I will also keep bite protocol in the venomous room, and on each enclosure I will have a removable tag containing the species name and location of the bite protocol to be clipped onto myself before opening the enclosure, I will carry on my person epinephrine and a phone should the need to call for help arise. As far as actual enclosures I will build them to have no gaps aside from ventilation which will be covered with wire mesh, sliding plexiglass front with a U bolt attached for visibility and ease of opening/closing with a hook, the individual enclosures will also be locked. If you have any suggestions or improvements I'm more than willing to listen to them, this isn't something I plan on getting into tomorrow I want to make sure I have everything built and safe beforehand.

 

[The Snark]

Sounds like you have thought things through.

Just some things we had in our containment. Keeping in mind it was assumed the general public could/would be present immediately outside the containment room.
Snakes kept: C Atrox, Oreganus, Viridis, Sistrurus. Cerastus
-Positive self latching trap doors in the tops of the containments, 2 per. Positive self latching door in the containment room. In addition a keyed lock on the containment room door.
-Back up person when containment is entered.
-Wide open area in front of all containments with a wide sturdy bench 36 inches high running the length of the room. No-climb guards on the bench supports. At one end of the room accessible to a person standing on the bench were the catch tools: hook sticks, lasso etc. The exit door was adjacent to the bench so a person could step from it to directly outside the room. The bench also served as a convenient table when feeding or cleaning. IE *WHEN* an escape comes down that bench is right behind you regardless of where you are in the room. Plop yer arse on it, swing your legs up and go on taking care of business.
-No areas underneath things in the room. IE Nowhere for a snake to 'go to ground' out of sight. All cabinets and containments/stands went down to and snugly fitted the floor and wall.
-A when all else fails, the fit hits the shan scenario, a back up get-help-stat protocol

I can't comment on your bite treatment protocols. As a paramedic I cannot undertake such treatments except under direct advice of a physician. As a person who has been bitten I seriously doubt, with many years of phlebotomist experience, I could reliably hit a vein repeatedly under that circumstance. I'd much prefer to have another trained pro catching my basket. Regardless, AV administration should be closely monitored which ordinarily requires trend and lab test charting.

 

[RTTB]

Sounds like a small fortune to be spent to correctly and 'safely' house a C atrox.The 10 vials of CroFab can't be cheap. To each their own. I've found the Rock and Pygmy rattlers to be fascinating and along with the Sidewinders, those smaller species I mulled over keeping in the past. Theoretically speaking of course as they are illegal to keep in my County.

 

[MetallicArachnid]

Sounds like a small fortune to be spent to correctly and 'safely' house a C atrox.The 10 vials of CroFab can't be cheap. To each their own. I've found the Rock and Pygmy rattlers to be fascinating and along with the Sidewinders, those smaller species I mulled over keeping in the past. Theoretically speaking of course as they are illegal to keep in my County.

Never said I plan to stop at C. atrox, I plan to start there and keep with Crotes for a number of years. And perhaps it is a bit overkill but worth it for both public acceptance of a dangerous hobby, and even though this will be in northern Canada if a snake gets out they could still cause some problems during the summer or possibly if someone/something happens to be in the wrong place before they freeze to death IE; my fiance or our animals.

 

[MetallicArachnid]

Sounds like you have thought things through.

Just some things we had in our containment. Keeping in mind it was assumed the general public could/would be present immediately outside the containment room.
Snakes kept: C Atrox, Oreganus, Viridis, Sistrurus. Cerastus
-Positive self latching trap doors in the tops of the containments, 2 per. Positive self latching door in the containment room. In addition a keyed lock on the containment room door.
-Back up person when containment is entered.
-Wide open area in front of all containments with a wide sturdy bench 36 inches high running the length of the room. No-climb guards on the bench supports. At one end of the room accessible to a person standing on the bench were the catch tools: hook sticks, lasso etc. The exit door was adjacent to the bench so a person could step from it to directly outside the room. The bench also served as a convenient table when feeding or cleaning. IE *WHEN* an escape comes down that bench is right behind you regardless of where you are in the room. Plop yer arse on it, swing your legs up and go on taking care of business.
-No areas underneath things in the room. IE Nowhere for a snake to 'go to ground' out of sight. All cabinets and containments/stands went down to and snugly fitted the floor and wall.
-A when all else fails, the fit hits the shan scenario, a back up get-help-stat protocol

I can't comment on your bite treatment protocols. As a paramedic I cannot undertake such treatments except under direct advice of a physician. As a person who has been bitten I seriously doubt, with many years of phlebotomist experience, I could reliably hit a vein repeatedly under that circumstance. I'd much prefer to have another trained pro catching my basket. Regardless, AV administration should be closely monitored which ordinarily requires trend and lab test charting.

You've got some good ideas there such as the bench for feeding and getting off the floor in an escape, working in pairs, and keeping everything flush with the floor and walls.

 

[The Snark]

Never trust a rattler with anything. Always assume the worst. One day refurbishing a containment. 20 inches high, 3 feet long, 24 inches deep. It was noticed the tip of a fang had broken off and was embedded in the trap door in the top. Yes, Delilah, they can strike straight up.

Compared to rattlers, I feel relatively safe around Hannahs. At least with them there is some room for maybe. Rattlers always have all six chambers loaded.

 

[MetallicArachnid]

Never trust a rattler with anything. Always assume the worst. One day refurbishing a containment. 20 inches high, 3 feet long, 24 inches deep. It was noticed the tip of a fang had broken off and was embedded in the trap door in the top. Yes, Delilah, they can strike straight up.

Compared to rattlers, I feel relatively safe around Hannahs. At least with them there is some room for maybe. Rattlers always have all six chambers loaded.

Yeahthough from what I've seen O. hannahs are far more intelligent and far more likely to bluff with their strikes Crotes will always strike with the intent of biting.

 

[schmiggle]

Plus, if you survive an O. hannah bite, that's it--the neurotoxin wears off, and you can go back to your life. C. atrox has proteolytic venom, so you could lose a leg or an arm even if you survive. That's why they always say not to use a tourniquet on the affected limb from a viper bite--it concentrates the venom in one place, making you more likely to lose that limb (I think a tourniquet is the recommended procedure for neurotoxic snake bites).

But I think we all digress. I'm curious if @Najakeeper has any suggestions in this regard.

 

[MetallicArachnid]

Plus, if you survive an O. hannah bite, that's it--the neurotoxin wears off, and you can go back to your life. C. atrox has proteolytic venom, so you could lose a leg or an arm even if you survive. That's why they always say not to use a tourniquet on the affected limb from a viper bite--it concentrates the venom in one place, making you more likely to lose that limb (I think a tourniquet is the recommended procedure for neurotoxic snake bites).

But I think we all digress. I'm curious if @Najakeeper has any suggestions in this regard.

You are mostly correct, O. hannah bites are known to cause severe necrosis which can cause significant tissue damage. http://toxinology.com/fusebox.cfm?fuseaction=main.snakes.display&id=SN0048

 

[schmiggle]

You are mostly correct, O. hannah bites are known to cause severe necrosis which can cause significant tissue damage. http://toxinology.com/fusebox.cfm?fuseaction=main.snakes.display&id=SN0048

Well damn. I wonder if that's from the cardiotoxins.

 

[The Snark]

I got this for my sis a while back. I think she had an orgasm when she saw it. Wore it to rags so I bought her 6 more.

(cobras.org)

 

[Najakeeper]

Plus, if you survive an O. hannah bite, that's it--the neurotoxin wears off, and you can go back to your life. C. atrox has proteolytic venom, so you could lose a leg or an arm even if you survive. That's why they always say not to use a tourniquet on the affected limb from a viper bite--it concentrates the venom in one place, making you more likely to lose that limb (I think a tourniquet is the recommended procedure for neurotoxic snake bites).

But I think we all digress. I'm curious if @Najakeeper has any suggestions in this regard.

Yeah, necrosis is known in O.hannah bites. Once you take a bite from a full grown king cobra, you are pretty much done unless you are in a snake farm with medical capabilities and shitload of antivenom.

A full grown C.atrox would not be fun either and can very well kill you. Plus, as others said, they operate on a hair trigger. I will take a cobra any day to deal with compared to a large pit viper.