Amblypygid from Central AZ, Praphrynus sp.

DubiaW

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Caught one of these this weekend. They are pretty common here but much faster than I expected (missed two). I'm going to set a communal and try to breed them. Any idea on the species?
ambly4.jpg ambly1.jpg ambly5.jpg
 

wizentrop

to the rescue!
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This would be Paraphrynus carolynae (formerly was together with Paraphrynus mexicanus)
 

schmiggle

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How are you going to avoid cannibalism in a communal setup? It seems like a generally good idea, but I know that's a chronic problem even with social amblypygi (e.g., Heterophrynus batesii), perhaps because of relative crowding and prey scarcity.
 

DubiaW

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I'm going to set up a large cage with plenty of hiding spots and keep them well fed and appropriately sized. This is my first Amblypygi set up. I bought one from a local vendor at the Tucson expo a week before we found this one. The vendor lived nearby so we went on a hunt together. He's keeping them in a communal right now and he hasn't lost any yet. They were all caught on the same wash so they might actually be socialized already. So far I have two housed together in a critter keeper and they are doing fine. When there is time I'm going to move them to something better.

Do you think it is going to be a problem?
 
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schmiggle

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Do you think it is going to be a problem?
I don't know that much, but I would say a large and complex set up is possibly the only way to go. Keep in mind that fatalities almost always happen after a molt. How long has this vendor had these, and have any molted in his care?
 

Nephila Edulis

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I'm going to set up a large cage with plenty of hiding spots and keep them well fed and appropriately sized. This is my first Amblypygi set up. I bought one from a local vendor at the Tucson expo a week before we found this one. The vendor lived nearby so we went on a hunt together. He's keeping them in a communal right now and he hasn't lost any yet. They were all caught on the same wash so they might actually be socialized already. So far I have two housed together in a critter keeper and they are doing fine. When there is time I'm going to move them to something better.

Do you think it is going to be a problem?
You could probably manage a communal. As long as the space is large enough for each individual to escape another if it needs to, I don't think that they'd both risk death with cannabilism so if they're well fed and have enough space a communal should be good. I would suggest that you start getting more enclosures as the population rises so there's less of a risk of moulting problems caused by interruption from cage-mates. There's others here who'd be better off giving you advice than me though
 

aphono

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Pretty cool!

Until this year, I never ever realized ANY amblypygids were native in the states. They just look so "exotic". Much much less some species live in the desert?!

I also thought all species lived in caves.. guess not! Do these spend days in burrows or under rocks or...? and come out at night to hunt on the ground or what?
 

Nephila Edulis

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Pretty cool!

Until this year, I never ever realized ANY amblypygids were native in the states. They just look so "exotic". Much much less some species live in the desert?!

I also thought all species lived in caves.. guess not! Do these spend days in burrows or under rocks or...? and come out at night to hunt on the ground or what?
There's quite a few amblypygids that will live under loose tree bark and in rock crevices (as long as those crevices are high enough off the ground to avoid centipedes and the like). I don't think amblypygids burrow though
 

DubiaW

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I have seen them in vertical dirt wash banks in flood planes in the past (while herping). Recently I found out that they like cliff faces with a lot of cracks and crevices to hide in. There's a guy who has found a few hanging off of the side of africanized bee hives in holes. The one we caught this weekend was on a hillside on the ground near a hole. We saw two on a cliff face. They are perfectly shaped to squeeze into a narrow crack and really, REALLY fast to dart back into their crack. They are really pretty common when you find the right place and the nights are warm enough. When they hunt they use their first set of legs like antanni and stretch them out to sense for prey (I've seen them hunting on the ground and on the cliff face). Although they can be troglophiles I have yet to find one in a mine shaft or cave (and I have been looking recently). They seem to like hot nights and the mines have been pretty chilly.

Pretty cool!

Until this year, I never ever realized ANY amblypygids were native in the states. They just look so "exotic". Much much less some species live in the desert?!

I also thought all species lived in caves.. guess not! Do these spend days in burrows or under rocks or...? and come out at night to hunt on the ground or what?
 
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aphono

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There's quite a few amblypygids that will live under loose tree bark and in rock crevices (as long as those crevices are high enough off the ground to avoid centipedes and the like). I don't think amblypygids burrow though

Thanks- do you know if the Damon(diadema, medius) genus spends time in trees, caves or both?

Perhaps
I have seen them in vertical dirt wash banks in flood planes in the past (while herping). Recently I found out that they like cliff faces with a lot of cracks and crevices to hide in. There's a guy who has found a few hanging off of the side of africanized bee hives in holes. The one we caught this weekend was on a hillside on the ground near a hole. We saw two on a cliff face. They are perfectly shaped to squeeze into a narrow crack and really, REALLY fast to dart back into their crack. They are really pretty common when you find the right place and the nights are warm enough. When they hunt they use their first set of legs like antanni and stretch them out to sense for prey (I've seen them hunting on the ground and on the cliff face). Although they can be troglophiles but I have yet to find one in a mine shaft or cave (and I have been looking recently). They seem to like hot nights and the mines have been pretty chilly.
Absolutely fascinating and thanks! See, I would have thought they were largely confined to mines in a desert environment, so your mention of seeing them in a wash really surprised me. I would love to see wild ones(and vingearoons, and gila monsters and....) in their habitat sometime. Not the ones co inhabiting with Africanized bees though, ha...
 

aphono

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There's quite a few amblypygids that will live under loose tree bark and in rock crevices (as long as those crevices are high enough off the ground to avoid centipedes and the like). I don't think amblypygids burrow though
Trees huh.. Bet they love hollowed out or mature strangler fig trees, right?

Does that have a rough guide as to why some species are semi-communal and others not so much? Limited space in a cave vs plenty of room in a forest environment?
 

tetracerus

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Ahh I want one of these so badly. A friend caught me one of these in Phoenix last year but it died before it got to me :(

Are there specific parks or areas where you have reliably found these amblypygids?
 

Nephila Edulis

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Thanks- do you know if the Damon(diadema, medius) genus spends time in trees, caves or both?

Perhaps


Absolutely fascinating and thanks! See, I would have thought they were largely confined to mines in a desert environment, so your mention of seeing them in a wash really surprised me. I would love to see wild ones(and vingearoons, and gila monsters and....) in their habitat sometime. Not the ones co inhabiting with Africanized bees though, ha...
I've heard that Damon diadema lives on both trees and caves/crevices
 

Nephila Edulis

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Trees huh.. Bet they love hollowed out or mature strangler fig trees, right?

Does that have a rough guide as to why some species are semi-communal and others not so much? Limited space in a cave vs plenty of room in a forest environment?
I bet a strangler fig would be perfect habitat for amblypygids. As for which ones are more communal than others I wouldn't know, it seems that larger species tend to be more solitary. There's a tiny species here in Australia (Charinus pescotti) which can be found in communities under the bark of eucalyptus trees and the like. It's not like there's any shortage of eucalyptus with loose bark so maybe they stick together for protection rather than because of limited space. That would explain why larger species such as Damon diadema are far less social
 

schmiggle

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As for which ones are more communal than others I wouldn't know, it seems that larger species tend to be more solitary.
I'm too lazy to find the paper right now, but Heterophrynua batesii is actually social (groups of 2-8 in the wild). The thought is that it prefers large and complex buttressed trees, and more can take advantage of these by being social.
 

BobBarley

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This would be Paraphrynus carolynae (formerly was together with Paraphrynus mexicanus)
Just to clarify, are all U.S. mexicanus now carolynae? And if so, is carolynae the only species of Paraphrynus we have?
 

pannaking22

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Just to clarify, are all U.S. mexicanus now carolynae? And if so, is carolynae the only species of Paraphrynus we have?
Correct, mexicanus is now carolynae. I believe Paraphrynus raptator shows up very rarely in extreme southern Florida and there are a couple records of Acanthophrynus coronatus popping up on the Arizona/Mexico border. One other phrynid has been found in extreme southern Texas, but I can't remember which species it is.

We have I think two others, phrynus marginemaculatus for sure and I think another desert species.
Phrynus marginemaculatus is a different genus, but both are still in the family Phrynidae.
 
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