Am I the only one who thinks T's need some space?

[Helix]

Here is my opinion...

We give to Ts as much space as we think is enough for them to live comfortable.
And to determine what is enough, we go by the researchers observations of the Ts in the wild.

Is it possible that we could be wrong about some aspects of keeping tarantulas?
Yes, offcourse.
But its the same with all the pets we keep... we cant know and be sure 100% about anything..
For all the pets we keep, we try to have optimal conditions (atleast we try).
Same is with Ts..

We could keep a 5-6 inch T in a 20 gallon tank if we wanted to...but why should we stop there, when 50 gallon tank offers more room for a tarantula to roam around if it wants to...even then, by that analogy, we couldnt be sure if its enough..
So anything short of its original natural habitat is just a replacement...

And do you think that tarantulas eat only crickets and roaches in the wild? Does that mean that we should breed insects from its natural habitat?


Since we cant be sure 100% about what any of our pets think/need, if we think like that, we should not have any of them..

 

[Evil Seedlet]

Here is mine opinion...

We give to Ts as much space as we think is enough for them to live comfortable.
And to determine what is enough, we go by the researchers observations of the Ts in the wild.

Is it possible that we could be wrong about some aspects of keeping tarantulas?
Yes, offcourse.
But its the same with all the pets we keep... we cant know and be sure 100% about anything..
For all the pets we keep, we try to have optimal conditions (atleast we try).
Same is with Ts..

We could keep a 5-6 inch T in a 20 gallon tank if we wanted to...but why should we stop there, when 50 gallon tank offers more room for a tarantula to roam around if it wants to...even then, by that analogy, we couldnt be sure if its enough..
So anything short of its original natural habitat is just a replacement...

And do you think that tarantulas eat only crickets and roaches in the wild? Does that mean that we should breed insects from its natural habitat?


Since we cant be sure 100% about what any of our pets think/need, if we think like that, we should not have any of them..

+1,000 Exactly.

 

[xhexdx]

Nah man i dont have a response, because there really is no good argument against the point you made.

Ah. Quite true.

 

[Death999]

oh my dark lord what hath I brought upon thy forum...


PS: I am not here to argue. To those whom wish to do so, any claim of knowledge could simply be followed by links to documented proof of such thus cannot be challenged.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

I think that it depends on the T . Ones that I have that spend all their time in their hides don't need much room . On the other hand , ones that like to stroll around I give them larger enclosures . One set in stone rule isn't the way to go , base it on the behavior of each individual animal . I see it no differently then then varying temperature , humidity and prey items until I find what seems to work best .

 

[Wachusaynoob]

My 5" rose hair lives happily in a 40 gallon tank, With 2 Plants for Fresh air, Kryptonite and a Nice water dish.

Its being renovated tommorow, aswell.

 

[Arachnoholic420]

T's don't need the space to be happy n healthy....
I've seen it at the zoo my self........
Most of their adult T's that they kept in the back like the M. robustum, T.Blondi, L. parahybana, and these where easy 8", also other specimens... The large T's where all kept in a large size kritter keepers, 5 gallon max and the rest where housed in med to small size's, depending on size....
All those T's were healthy and gorgeous....
The only big enclosure i saw are their actual display exhibits.... but rather than that, they where all just kept in small enclosures...
That for some us might think it's not ideal.... and thinks that the T's not happy:?..... Tell that to the zoo curators....



Peace,
Armando

 

[kingrattus]

I didn't read the whole thread, only the first page.. lazy I suppose lol...

Sorry if I insult anyone, and I'm not going to point anyone out

but seriously I have a problem with a lot of T keepers putting T's in such small enclosures. it just bothers me how many people have T's with like no room to move around.

It really seems like people care more about having the T's they want than having a nice home for them. Oooo thats a good price for that spider eh I'll just put it in a 6 inch pretzel container even though the T is 4 inches big.

or I see someone buys a sling and won't rehouse it until they can't close the lid on it anymore. just because the T is alive doesn't mean its happy

All my T's have at least a gallon of space per inch in legspan

doesw anyone out there agree with me?

I once thought that a 20gal was perfect for my Rosea, as I thought the small critter keepers were cruel. Well I was wrong, very wrong. My Rosea was only eating about once a month in her 20gal. I figured since thats the only times she would eat that was normal... Then I joined here & learned that too much space can/is bad. So I put her in a critter keeper that still gives her space to walk around, have a hide, & a water dish. Since then she now eats several times a month & has fattened up nicely.

I still can't get over the small space thing 100%, cause deep down inside it feels cruel. So my slings are in larger containers. I give them a hide & they usually stay right near it. This also allows me to place a dead cricket near the entrance with tongs without destroying their web. This container will also provide them enough room until they are much larger & can then go into a perm. critter keeper.

Even though I've had my Rosea for 4yrs I'm STILL new to T keeping & sling keeping, but its a great joy learning all about them. I would be quite lost if it wasn't for this group!

 

[Scoolman]

I did not read all 30 posts, so I may have missed it. I know tarantulas do not need a lot of space as they are sedentary and reclusive, however, I do partially agree. I believe many keepers take that fact to the extreme and keep their tarantulas in enclosures that are far too small. While sedentary and reclusive tarantulas will occasionally take short strolls out of their burrows.

 

[smallara98]

Ok , heres a good example . I could put my rosea in a medium KK (shes 5") and she probably wouldn't be happy if ts could have a emotion (which they most likely can , but we cant see it) . If I put my versicolor in a peanut jar thats about 7" tall , and 4" . Would she be happy . I bet she wouldn't give a crap cause we all know she would just make a web tube and stay in there for the rest of her life (btw shes 4") .

It really just depends on the species of tarantula and the size of the enclsoure . You have to think , "oh , well my rosea is a pet rock and will probably sit there alot , but does like to walk around ocassionally . So I placed her into a Large KK , so she has plenty of room to walk around in , but isnt too much .

 

[JamieC]

I can understand the OP's frustration.

I agree that Tarantulas don't need a lot of space to live comfortably. But I think some are housed in containers that really are far too small.

I have a very small collection which consists of 8 T's, all Avicularia which are all housed fairly spaciously. I think that perhaps keepers with larger collections tend to house their T's less spaciously to prevent their collections from taking over their homes. It's understandable. I doubt it has a negative impact on their health though.

 

[AprilH]

My 5" rose hair lives happily in a 40 gallon tank, With 2 Plants for Fresh air, Kryptonite and a Nice water dish.

Its being renovated tommorow, aswell.

And 'happily' involved getting munched by centipedes while molting??

For those that say it's arrogant not to think animals all have the same thoughts and feelings as us, I say it's the other way around. To assume everything thinks like us and must have the same feelings as us, regardless of their physiology, is arrogant. Well, not arrogant, but ignorant.

If studying them in their natural habitat shows that a certain species lives in a burrow most of its life and never leave that area, then it most likely wouldn't even notice if the rest of the world disappeared, as long as food was still provided. If you think that they might like to wander around for fun, in the wild that individual would make easy prey and be removed from the gene pool pretty quickly. Mature males don't have a choice, but they also don't have to live long after they mature.

Mine are not in big containers, but those that set up burrows pretty much just sit in them and wait for stuff to come by.

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

Ah. Quite true.

Did I miss something? I never saw him say that.

 

[Rregl]

ive bred and had female Ts lay sacs and raise them successfully in 1-2 gallon jars/containers. and im talking like 4-6" females...
now, im not saying a 1gallon jar is super ideal...but obviously it is plenty room for the spider to do what it does and be unhindered or stressed out. IMO. the 1" per gallon thing is way off IMO (a common 'rule' in fish keeping that is also very very wrong).

Though I get the point your making this statment is oh so misleading, 1" per fish per gallon, is a good rule for the beginner, and covers a broad range of needs, the average aquarium is poorly filtrated and largley overstocked, this is why That saying is so popular, Some Need more room, communal fish may require less, Nuff said just don't want that to stick in somebodies head and they pick 4 jaguaur cichlids for. 20 gallon and cry about hostility.
If anyone needs a few good links for fish, just pm me! That's what started my t Habbit, That and a trip to a herp show! It was all over after that. Now back to the topic
I generally oversize my tanks but not huge. Just a bit bigger than the spider needs, This is mainly for me as I like to do backdrops, and incorporate water bowls into the landscape and it gives me and the spider more room to play, I've never had an adult that seemed uncomfortable. My aboreal adults are housed in 12x12x18 acrylics. And do very well

 

[Fran]

I think it's absolutely rediculous for someone to say that a lot of space will stress them out

so are you saying all tarantulas in the wild are extremely stressed out because the world is so big? come on really

100% agree. Ridiculous.

 

[mitchrobot]

Though I get the point your making this statment is oh so misleading, 1" per fish per gallon, is a good rule for the beginner, and covers a broad range of needs, the average aquarium is poorly filtrated and largley overstocked, this is why That saying is so popular, Some Need more room, communal fish may require less, Nuff said just don't want that to stick in somebodies head and they pick 4 jaguaur cichlids for. 20 gallon and cry about hostility.

that saying is popular because people dont do their homework and look into good sources for information.
that rule is IMO hands down the 2nd leading reason why so many people kill their fish (first would be improper set up, 2nd would be doing small infrequent water chages). not just beginners go by this rule in the aquarium hobby, but a lot of oldschoolers for some reason do to. i had a 14" jaguar cichlid that in no way shape or form could live in a 14 gallon tank. i had that thing in a 125g and even that tank looked small. fish are entirely different from Ts, many NEED room, and most dont live in a hole in the ground or tube web in a tree their entire lives (well, none do i guess). i can think of very few that 1"/g would apply too. even those miniature greek puffers that only get 1" would look cramped if you had say 5 in a 5g tank. they would chew each other apart. i did the tropical fish breeding/selling thing for years, and can honestly say that there is no rule of thumb for tank size, too many species specific variables, and also depending on how geared out your tank is changes the whole thing too. what i want to stick into peoples head is to "do your homework for every species you get". find good sources, not just some one who owns a fish store, look up info from successful long term keepers/breeders. theres a difference between surviving and thriving.

anyways, that was waaaaayyyyy off topic. apologies for going off the tracks.

back to the original stuff...

Originally Posted by Death999 View Post
I think it's absolutely rediculous for someone to say that a lot of space will stress them out

so are you saying all tarantulas in the wild are extremely stressed out because the world is so big? come on really

a lot of space wont stress them out, but truth be told it will be harder for them to find food. not to say they wont, plus target feeding works wonders . i just feel a HUGE cage would just be a waste. i had a big xenesthis in the equivalent of a 30gallon container for a while with a very deep burrow. she never used it. webbed up a corner and would hang out in it. i moved her to a 10, she dug out a nice burrow and usually doesnt leave it. saves me space, money and i dont have to use a bail of peatmoss to clean it out

 

[LucioArgento211]

While I don't feel that excess space is necessary for tarantulas (as was stated earlier, most are ambush predators and aren't usually too active), I feel that extra space allows me to build a more attractive display and a more naturalistic home for my T's. This works well for myself as a collector/hobbyist, but for breeders who need to utilize as much space as they can to accomodate their collection of slings, juvies and adults, as well as feeder insects, etc.; this is not always the most convenient option. It's not that the keepers are necessarily neglecting their animals, it is just the set up that works correctly for them in their situation

 

[Cbarr]

Originally Posted by Cbarr View Post
Nah man i dont have a response, because there really is no good argument against the point you made.Ah. Quite true.

Lol changing peoples quotes huh u like playing games dont u so do my children.

 

[curiousme]

Though I am late to the party, I have an opinion on this subject.(Imagine that!)

We like to give our Ts lots of room, not because we think they need it, but because we as their owners feel like WE need to.

It's true that they can be kept in smaller containers and live, but IMO/E smaller enclosures can cause more defensiveness from certain Ts. They feel the entire enclosures is their territory and can be immediately defensive to stimuli. If you have a larger enclosure, they have a place to retreat to if things get dicey. We have noticed they are more tolerant of tank maintenance as well. We have not seen one stressed by the extra space, or any sign of it causing problems. We do tong feed almost all of our Ts though, so a T not finding its food is not a problem we experience.

I see time and again people saying that Ts don't use that much room, but in our experience that is a false statement. We have a G. rosea in a 10 gallon tank and have for around 2 years. She uses every inch of it and interestingly. This spring she decided to build an ant like tunnel that had 3 different levels. She remodels constantly, prunes her own plants and it is very enjoyable to see her shape her world. Our Haplopelma sp.Vietnam is reclusive during the day and stays in the dark abyss that is her burrow, but in the evening/ night she almost always sits at the top of her burrow. She doesn't roam her 10 gallon tank up top much, but has been caught webbing in and around the plants in there. It is uber cool to see this sleek svelte black spider creeping among the tangles of pothos. She has extensive tunnels at the bottom that span at least half of the tank, at least that we can see. Other Ts change the location of their hide every so often too. People say that they stay in their burrow and don't stray much, but as far as I know there hasn't been a Jane Goodall in the hobby. Who knows if they decide to pick up and move after being in one place for a year or two.

That is the kind of tarantula people we are. We want to provide them something better than they would find in the wild, by providing as naturalistic an enclosure as we are able to. This is neither right, nor wrong husbandry. There is no right way to care for your T. It is personal preference/ ethics and how you view your pets. Our Ts are part of the family, all 23 of them. We don't want much more than that, because it would cause us to start falling into that category of needing to maximize our space and move to smaller enclosures.

Breeders don't have that luxury and since they are helping keep the hobby alive, I don't have any criticism for keeping your tarantulas in close quarters for that reason. Some people collect Ts like stamps or coins, but who am I to tell them that it's wrong. I guess the only gauge of what is outright wrong, is if your Ts are dropping like flies. Even there, it may not be specifically the husbandry that is causing the die off. If you are happy with your enclosures, your tarantulas are alive and seem to be thriving and healthy; good on ya.

 

[briarpatch10]

curiousme... that was insightful and well thoughtout and I couldnt agree more