Acanthophrynus coronatus... Where are they??

BobBarley

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Title says it all... Where are the Acanthophrynus coronatus in the U.S.?? They can be found in the U.S. in the wild, if I'm not wrong (extreme southern Arizona, maybe New Mexico and Cali). So why haven't they been offered like... at all in the U.S.?
 
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wizentrop

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I think you are asking the wrong question.
The real question is why no one has arranged yet to import them from all the people breeding them outside of the US.
 

BobBarley

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I think you are asking the wrong question.
The real question is why no one has arranged yet to import them from all the people breeding them outside of the US.
Hm, makes sense, good question. They are in the European and the Canadian hobby right?
 

wizentrop

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Like all amblypygi, A. coronatus is a long term investment. It takes years before you get breedable adults from babies, and even then nothing guarantees the successful hatching of egg sacs. While there are some people keeping this species out there, breeding rates are low and the prices per individual are probably the highest among amblypygi (excluding the seldom-bred Euphrynichus amanica). This means that any trader looking into importing them into the US is taking a huge risk. On top of that they have to get import permits, although I presume that it might not be very difficult given the fact that the species is listed as occurring in the US (I am not 100% if that is true, btw).
 

BobBarley

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Like all amblypygi, A. coronatus is a long term investment. It takes years before you get breedable adults from babies, and even then nothing guarantees the successful hatching of egg sacs. While there are some people keeping this species out there, breeding rates are low and the prices per individual are probably the highest among amblypygi (excluding the seldom-bred Euphrynichus amanica). This means that any trader looking into importing them into the US is taking a huge risk. On top of that they have to get import permits, although I presume that it might not be very difficult given the fact that the species is listed as occurring in the US
Very helpful, thank you. :) So what I'm seeing is... The U.S. ambly hobby is run 70% on wild caught Damon diadema and Phrynus marginemaculatus. The occasional other Phrynus or Paraphrynus pops up along with the extremely occasional Heterophrynus batesii. Also to a some degree CB baby Damon diadema from WC adults, and an import of Damon medius came in sometime earlier this year or late last year. Anyway... what I'm understanding is that we don't have many long-term breeders of other amblies here in the U.S. and that breeding amblies in general is difficult and long-term. Everything about right? If this is the case, why is Canada's Amblypygid hobby larger than the U.S.'s. Is it simply that more breeders are willing to breed?

(I am not 100% if that is true, btw).
Me neither, however, I was able to dig up one photo of what appears to be an A. coronatus in Arizona which @Elytra and Antenna commented on...
http://bugguide.net/node/view/455740/bgimage
And a paper referring to A. coronatus being found in Baja California, listing areas not very far away from the border.
Still though, definitely not 100% confirmed.
 

chanda

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Very helpful, thank you. :) So what I'm seeing is... The U.S. ambly hobby is run 70% on wild caught Damon diadema and Phrynus marginemaculatus. The occasional other Phrynus or Paraphrynus pops up along with the extremely occasional Heterophrynus batesii. Also to a some degree CB baby Damon diadema from WC adults, and an import of Damon medius came in sometime earlier this year or late last year. Anyway... what I'm understanding is that we don't have many long-term breeders of other amblies here in the U.S. and that breeding amblies in general is difficult and long-term. Everything about right? If this is the case, why is Canada's Amblypygid hobby larger than the U.S.'s. Is it simply that more breeders are willing to breed?
I wouldn't say that all amblypygids are difficult to breed. I have Damon diadema and they have, so far, been surprisingly easy to breed - sometimes surprising me with unexpected babies - but it does take a fairly long time and a significant amount of room to raise up the babies. I don't have space to separate the young so I keep them communally, but that does result in a fair amount of loss due to cannibalism. I could easily breed more babies than I have, but I keep my males and females separated most of the time because I don't want to be innundated with baby whip spiders.
 

wizentrop

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I agree with the above. Damon diadema are very easy to breed. The bottleneck with this species seems to be raising the juveniles to a decent size, as they are somewhat sensitive in their early life (regardless of whether they are kept communally or not). Other genera, for example some Phrynus species, are easy peasy to breed. But regardless of the species, breeding amblypygi is always a task that takes years to complete. Bringing the adults to a state that allows breeding, mating them, then waiting for the female to drop the egg sac, then more waiting until it hatches, and then even more waiting until the babies molt and drop from the mother's back. There is always a chance for something to go wrong along the way.

As for long-term breeders in the US - Orin is probably the most known one. However, he never imports new inverts into the US by himself, for reasons I understand completely. You'd be surprised to hear that in Canada the amblypygi hobby is quite small too. Not too many people know what they are or express a desire to keep them, as opposed to tarantulas, for example. Most of what is available in Canada is due to breeding efforts by @tarcan and myself.
 

pannaking22

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It's definitely a case of the more the merrier and there could actually be several people in the US with some of the rarer ambypygid species, but the rest of us are still waiting to see the fruits of their labors. I have a couple species myself (thanks @wizentrop for the newest additions!), but I know it's going to be a bit of a wait until I have any babies. I'm hoping to scale up everything once I have more space and can get a few other species, but that'll take time.

It probably doesn't help that amblypygids aren't all that popular in the US hobby right now, even when there is the chance to bring in new species. Group popularity seems to come and go in waves. Right now, it looks like the centipede hobby in the US is jumping forward by leaps and bounds, which catapults the knowledge base of a previously rather small group into much larger numbers. A lot of species are various shades of brown with some slight differences in shades/patterns and large variation in size (I know this is rather general because there are several species that have some color to them as well). The species people want are either colorful but tend to be rather rare in the hobby, or massive but take a long time to reach maturity and get to reproduce.
 

myrmecophile

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Title says it all... Where are the Acanthophrynus coronatus in the U.S.?? They can be found in the U.S. in the wild, if I'm not wrong (extreme southern Arizona, maybe New Mexico and Cali). So why haven't they been offered like... at all in the U.S.?
I have seen at least one species a few times in Tucson and the Chiricahua mtns. Sadly did not get photos, or specimens.
 

pannaking22

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It's definitely a case of the more the merrier and there could actually be several people in the US with some of the rarer ambypygid species, but the rest of us are still waiting to see the fruits of their labors. I have a couple species myself (thanks @wizentrop for the newest additions!), but I know it's going to be a bit of a wait until I have any babies. I'm hoping to scale up everything once I have more space and can get a few other species, but that'll take time.

It probably doesn't help that amblypygids aren't all that popular in the US hobby right now, even when there is the chance to bring in new species. Group popularity seems to come and go in waves. Right now, it looks like the centipede hobby in the US is jumping forward by leaps and bounds, which catapults the knowledge base of a previously rather small group into much larger numbers. A lot of species are various shades of brown with some slight differences in shades/patterns and large variation in size (I know this is rather general because there are several species that have some color to them as well). The species people want are either colorful but tend to be rather rare in the hobby, or massive but take a long time to reach maturity and get to reproduce.
Just realized I should clarify after re-reading this thread. Bold and italicized section was referring to amblypygids, not centipedes.
 

Philth

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I'm doubtful they are in the U.S. Next batch that Tarantula Canada has , I'm hoping to import some for myself. As far as I know the last few batches didn't go so well. The last few times I imported a few of the harder to find species in the U.S. they were sold out the same day. Mostly private sales sold before they even arrived here. I have about 15 species in my collection now that I hope to start breeding, but as mine are all CB, they take some time to raise.

Later, Tom
 
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