About pet stores and hypocrisy

[Thistles]

The live animal departments actually cost big box pet stores money. Staffing them and keeping the animals cared for actually costs more than the live pets make them. They only keep the animals there for the sales they get from selling an enclosure and the supplies that go with the animals and as a draw to bring people into the store to buy stuff. Those departments run on impulse buying and ignorance.

Some of the big stores have talked about eliminating live pets altogether, which would be awesome. They're just not there yet.

 

[user 666]

The live animal departments actually cost big box pet stores money. Staffing them and keeping the animals cared for actually costs more than the live pets make them. They only keep the animals there for the sales they get from selling an enclosure and the supplies that go with the animals and as a draw to bring people into the store to buy stuff. Those departments run on impulse buying and ignorance.

Some of the big stores have talked about eliminating live pets altogether, which would be awesome. They're just not there yet.

several chains have dropped the live animal dept ()or never had it in the first place): Pet Valu, Petco Unleashed, Pet Depot.

they're not the majors, obviously.

 

[penngomifan]

The PetCo here Keeps there Tarantulas in Good condition, there Tanks have adequate space, and are kept at good temps. No loose crickets, The right substrate etc.

 

[Thistles]

several chains have dropped the live animal dept ()or never had it in the first place): Pet Valu, Petco Unleashed, Pet Depot.

they're not the majors, obviously.

Yes, PetSmart has some small stores like Petco Unleashed stores, too. They both still have their big ones, but the new business model seems to be less selection, smaller space, no live pets.

 

[Garth Vader]

Why you don't order those online directly from breeders, my fav. U.S brain Doc of all times?

Only because I have just 5 Ts. Plus crickets stink. I can't bear having more than a few of them at a time. @Trenor and @EulersK gave me lots of info on dubia so I may do that someday.

im glad I'm your favorite doc, although I must disclose I don't have a degree in medicine and I'm not a doctor- just a masters level clinician! That was enough school for me!

 

[Kendricks]

In the end, you not buying from them is unlikely to affect them at all.

When I went to a local store to buy crickets a few weeks back, the following exchange happened:
"Do you have Tarantulas as well?"
"Not any more. We stopped selling them because demand was too low."

That's also one reason why I started this thread, because obviously us buying or not can affect them indeed.
Would every store do so?
Probably not, but that doesn't mean it should be disregarded altogether.

 

[EulersK]

Only because I have just 5 Ts. Plus crickets stink. I can't bear having more than a few of them at a time. @Trenor and @EulersK gave me lots of info on dubia so I may do that someday.

im glad I'm your favorite doc, although I must disclose I don't have a degree in medicine and I'm not a doctor- just a masters level clinician! That was enough school for me!

You can have as many dubia from me as you wish, holy tacocat

 

[BobBarley]

Just something I wanted to point out (I'm sure many of you already know this), but it really isn't the employees' faults. Corporate supplies them with "care" sheets and specific instructions for housing/feeding the t's, and the employees are supposed to follow those instructions. I believe there are routine inspections. Not following the rules may get them into trouble. It may not be that they simply don't care about the information you tell them on how to keep the t's correctly, it may be that they can't do anything even if they wanted to. Just wanted to clarify.

 

[Trenor]

When I went to a local store to buy crickets a few weeks back, the following exchange happened:
"Do you have Tarantulas as well?"
"Not any more. We stopped selling them because demand was too low."

That's also one reason why I started this thread, because obviously us buying or not can affect them indeed.
Would every store do so?
Probably not, but that doesn't mean it should be disregarded altogether.

Local store being the point. Our local hardware store stopped carrying square bit deck screws (I know right?). I wonder if the anti-square bit deck screw group's boycott worked? Or was this because regular demand was low? I drove the extra 20 miles to the Lowes and picked some up so they matched my old deck screws.

Did the pet store you went to mistreat their Ts? Is that why there was a boycott which caused them to not sale Ts anymore? Well, you wouldn't know cause per your conversation you didn't know if they even carried Ts. Much less the living condition of the Ts when they did. So, it's just as likely they stopped for the same reason I had to go further to get my deck screws. No one was smart enough to ask for the square headed screws when clearly they are better. I mean demand was low on a local level for Ts.

Hey, like I said in the other thread... I don't care either way. Go with whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside my friend.

 

[Kendricks]

Local store being the point.

Not sure what you mean by that, if you think I meant it like some small private store, then no, it was actually one of Germany's biggest chains ("Fressnapf" or "Futterhaus", not sure I always mix them up). Oh and "local" is a city with roughly 90k people. I suspect I wrongly applied the term local here? I meant "in my area".

Doesn't really matter to me though, small or big, the point is (too) many stores treat their animals badly (see countless threads on this here on AB alone) and buying there does support this.
I don't see why this simple fact creates a larger debate. If you don't care it's fine, some people do however and my example shows that your generalization of "it won't change anything" just isn't true at all.

Did the pet store you went to mistreat their Ts? Is that why there was a boycott which caused them to not sale Ts anymore? Well, you wouldn't know cause per your conversation you didn't know if they even carried Ts. Much less the living condition of the Ts when they did. So, it's just as likely they stopped for the same reason I had to go further to get my deck screws. No one was smart enough to ask for the square headed screws when clearly they are better. I mean demand was low on a local level for Ts.

What do you mean I couldn't know if they had T's? Because my example clearly shows that I did, they confirmed it themselves?
As for how they were treated, no idea since they were gone already. Thats besides the point though.

My point was/is: Not buying T's at stores will lower the demand, which raises the chances they stop selling T's completely - just like the store in my example.
Why the demand is low, is completely irrelevant to the point. Boycott, low demand (same thing in the end) or Armageddon.

Hey, like I said in the other thread... I don't care either way. Go with whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside my friend.

Yes you complained before that "the horse is tired of the beating", yet you actively participate in the debate. 

 

[Chris LXXIX]

When I went to a local store to buy crickets a few weeks back, the following exchange happened:
"Do you have Tarantulas as well?"
"Not any more. We stopped selling them because demand was too low."

Logical. Understandable. While indeed other people/nation 'merged' in recent years (I'm watching you Poland) historically and still today Germany is and remain the 'heaven' for T's, or Theraphosidae, or Vogelspinnen or whatever therefore only someone with a brain infested by B.dubia instead of cells would buy one from the first pet store chain, and not from your breeders

 

[Kendricks]

Just something I wanted to point out (I'm sure many of you already know this), but it really isn't the employees' faults. Corporate supplies them with "care" sheets and specific instructions for housing/feeding the t's, and the employees are supposed to follow those instructions. I believe there are routine inspections. Not following the rules may get them into trouble.

That's interesting, but I honestly don't think it's that easy. Kinda reminds me of how soldiers calm their conscience after doing bad things by saying "I just did my duty!". Not how it works.
Imagine you work at such place. Now would you really treat the animals wrong 'because you have to'? And if: does that excuse anything?
Not meaning to turn this into a philosophy or morale class, yet I believe in self-responsibility.
We're accountable for our actions, no one else.
I could cite a great movie scene, but I guess the cheese factor would be too high... Ah screw it!

"Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power. When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus," or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice. Remember that."
(Kingdom of Heaven chess scene anyone?)

Of course, that heavy quote is a little out of proportion here, but the principle still applies, at least in my opinion, so why not.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Imagine you work at such place. Now would you really treat the animals wrong 'because you have to'? And if: does that excuse anything?

This is the point. You are right on a moral/ethic level man, and I understand what you mean, but this is the point.
It's not me, you, BobBarley, Trenor, EulersK or else that works on those places, but other people.

Other people that are doing those jobs only because they need a work (read: working in said places, in a shopping center, or into a McDonald would be the same for those) and that they are clueless about almost everything around them.

They just listen and do to what their corporate 'boss' (in general another weirdo payed a little more) tell them to do.

Obviously, obviously... if there's (mere example) a rabbit or an hamster without water and inside a filthy cage or a fish swimming in urine instead of water, hell: now even the most lazy and brainwashed employee should notice that on my book and take action.

But what when it comes to T's (let's speak about T's only for a moment)? T's are not so 'knowed' by the many like other animals can be, so... simple.
They are clueless. There's a wrong set up for those 'avics' housed in a crappy terrestrial KK? Sure.
There's sponge, gel or wathever in the water dish (if present, I mean)? Yes.

But on the book of said people everything is 'perfect'. They did what "he/she that know best" to do.
They are in those corporate shops for grab the money for buy their stuff... smartphones, videogames etc mostly those are young people and they lack the will to 'educate' themselves because they lack that habit at 360° in their life, even if I don't want to generalize.

So basically when 'you' are doing something that, actually, is wrong but 'you' don't know that... it's night time :-s

 

[Kendricks]

Chris, you really have a talent to drag me down!



No, I of course get your point, but let's not create a 100% dystopian world where everyone is a complete slave to his superiors at work.
I wouldn't blame a mother of three in the US having to 'obey' her boss because he has the power to fire her at any moment without consequences, but that's not always, everywhere and for everyone the case, and can't always be an excuse.

Before the purpose of the thread gets lost in details, let me just say that it was meant as a shout-out, a reminder to those who support stores they complain about by buying there.
That's really all, but it got a little out of hand it seems. 

 

[ediblepain]

I wandered into a petstore to just look around. It was a disgusting shop. Dead animals.. sad animals.. piles of poop in cages. I made a very overpriced mercy purchase of a female g porteri, after trying to have a friendly chat about T care with the owner. He literally told me that he doesn't care about the animals, just the profit. I know I shouldn't have bought this fuzzball. Not from this place, and not for the price. I will never go to that petstore again, for any reason. I tell local friends about how shitty it is. I made a post on imgur about it. I wrote a bad review online.. there not much else I can do. Anyway... here is Mercy. This pic was taken right after leaving the shop. This is what she was housed in.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

No, I of course get your point, but let's not create a 100% dystopian world where everyone is a complete slave to his superiors at work.
I wouldn't blame a mother of three in the US having to 'obey' her boss because he has the power to fire her at any moment without consequences, but that's not always, everywhere and for everyone the case, and can't always be an excuse.

Oh no no while indeed I do believe that big corporate chains are actually a bit dystopian, and while I would behave the same as you in regards of a mother of three, a student or what else working in such places for the bread waiting for something better, let me give you a better example of what's the essence of that for me.

There's a dog: you see the empty or filthy water dish. Food... what is that? Chained to a crappy dog-house. Dog eyes are full with fear, he/she probably is suffering from cold/heat or what, also. Now (almost) everyone would notice that and get mad/freak out etc

There's a Theraphosidae, let's say a G.rosea, in one of those shops: wet substrate, no water dish or a water dish full of stones/gel or else, nothing for hide or a piece of toilet paper as hide, condensation und crickets all the way. Clearly said Theraphosidae isn't running too well

Now, the average man/lady/kid that was mad in a second for the dog of my example would watch fascinating such Theraphosidae saying: 'good, good'

This happens not because he/she loves the dog but give a damn about a spider.... but because is completely clueless about the proper care needed for the latter. On his/her book that's fine because the shop 'knows better'... better than him/her.

IMO this is the same for those pet shop employeers. It's about ignorance but at it's genuine pure finest meaning, and education... about realizing that.

 

[Kendricks]

Ah, that's what you meant, I see.
However, that implies pet shops and the staff are unaware of all that - yet complains aren't exactly rare, they must know somethings off, no way they can't know they're doing badly (so often).

We probably won't find out either way.

 

[Trenor]

Not sure what you mean by that, if you think I meant it like some small private store, then no, it was actually one of Germany's biggest chains ("Fressnapf" or "Futterhaus", not sure I always mix them up). Oh and "local" is a city with roughly 90k people. I suspect I wrongly applied the term local here? I meant "in my area".

Ahh, that was where my confusion came from.

My point was/is: Not buying T's at stores will lower the demand, which raises the chances they stop selling T's completely - just like the store in my example.
Why the demand is low, is completely irrelevant to the point. Boycott, low demand (same thing in the end) or Armageddon.

As others and myself have stated they are already losing money (a lot of it) on live pets dying and they still keep them. How is a little less demand likely to change anything when dead pet money loss doesn't?

Yes you complained before that "the horse is tired of the beating", yet you actively participate in the debate. 

Your right... you guys got me. Pulled me right in and I took a stick to the horse too.

 

[Andrea82]

@Kendricks
(Take a look in the search function of this forum, entering petco/petsmart/lps in it. You'll be amazed and appalled)
While I support and understand your objection against the shops who don't give a damn, you need to see this from another perspective when it comes to boycotting.

When 50 people boycot a shop in their village, that shop goes out if business. When 500 people boycot a shop in a city, that shop goes out.
At least, that is the way in the small countries of Europe, because those shops are not backed up by gigantic multinationals with billions of dollars to keep all the shops running.
Even when 50000 people boycot a shop in say, New York, that will have no impact at all. 500000? Nope. 5000000? Maybe.
Boycotting shops in the US is useless, simply because the scale is way too large. It might work with a family petshop in a small village, but it isn't those shops who are the main perpetrators in this case, it is those huge chains of Petco, Petsmart and so on.
For every person boycotting, they have a thousand who generate enough money to make a nice profit.
Sort of David and Goliath, only in this version, Goliath wins.

 

[Trenor]

Boycotting shops in the US is useless, simply because the scale is way too large. It might work with a family petshop in a small village, but it isn't those shops who are the main perpetrators in this case, it is those huge chains of Petco, Petsmart and so on.

Right, so if you want to affect a big chain store like Petco, which is large and spread across multiple states, you would have to not just get enough support in your area. You would have to get that much across all the areas that had a store to matter. If a store in New York took a loss from people boycotting they can hold out forever as long as they still made a profit and the other stores absorbed the brunt of the boycott. This is the exact thing Walmart did when they were boycotted country wide. They have enough profit coming in from places that didn't get boycotted as hard that it didn't hurt their bottom line enough to cause them to change.

I don't like how they treat their animals any more that the rest of the people on here. That's not the point. The point is a handful of T people, not buying Ts at Petco, is not going to make enough impact to force change.