About pet stores and hypocrisy

Kendricks

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
148
Every once in a while, pet stores and their - in too many cases - terrible husbandry for T's, become a topic here.

It's always the same, most here agree that they don't treat T's how they should be treated and that these stores are bad - exceptions being rather rare.

I agree - wich is why I would not ever buy a T at one of these stores, as it would simply cause them to continue on this path.

They don't care about your lectures.
They don't care about the animals.
They won't stop selling until you stop buying.


So, to those who complain about these stores - yet still buy there - think about it.
If we love T's, we must not support their abuse and exploitation. Please.
 

houston

Arachnopeon
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Messages
39
A good point, but ultimately futile. Pet stores (or at least major chains-- specialty stores are ovbiously an exception) are not selling to us. They're not selling to people who know everything they can learn about their pet choice before they walk into the building. They're selling pets to people who come in, see something they want, and purchase everything.

Hobbyist and breeders can't make up too much of their sales-- breeders are going to strive for excellent specimens and special order their animals, while hobbyist all know that pet shops are garbage. Tony down the street who think bearded dragons are So Cool and is going to put it in a ten gal with sand and no hides is the customer. Mrs. Dreary, who has 3 children she wants to teach responsibility and buys a goldfish bowl and 3 rosy feeder fish is the customer. Jerry, who bought a corn snake and a ball python for the same tank and comments on how they're cuddling, isn't it cute, is the customer.

The only people who buy Ts from pet stores, I'd like to think, are beginners and misguided "I want to save it" types. And, of course, those who prefer convenience over everything else, but no one is going to be able to convince them the convenience is straddled with inhumane practices..
 

MrTwister

Arachnoknight
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
220
My two pet store experiences have been great. T's kept in climate controlled cases, adequate housing, no crickets running around the enclosures. Staff in both cases knowledgable and T keepers themselves....I realize this is not the norm.
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
Active Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
5,689
In Italy thank God those never existed. No 'Pet Store' here had T's (and arachnids in general) nor centipedes for sale nor they sell those today.

Back then in that lovely no Internet era (private breeders aside) T's keepers run the few "arachnids and other exotic" based shops in Italy, but obviously they were different from the likes of big chains like Petco & such just like different are Day and Night.

Imagine the experienced people here that decide to open a shop, basically.
 

JoshDM020

Arachnobaron
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
358
I agree. And its not even just inverts or other exotic animals. Anything other than cats and dogs and maybe some birds are all mistreated. One time i was at PetSmart and was absolutely appalled at the hermit crab enclosures. Condensation build up all over the place, dead crabs, nasty green sponges with yellow spots (which you surely know is backwards, even if little green spots are also unacceptable). So i sent an email to their corporate office. And ever since, they have actually done a rather good job. It was a tad hypocritical of me, though, because i just could NOT get it right with those guys. I studied for months before even buying one. Theyre deceptively complicated. Anyways. The point is. Sometimes, in the right circumstances, we as individuals CAN make a difference. Ive been there. And hopefully we can, as individuals AND as groups, find ways to change little self-owned stores that over charge for mistreated stressed out animals that may day as soon as you get them home. T, other invert, or what have you.
 

Magenta

Arachnosquire
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
55
Something I wish the pet stores could understand:

If they made a real effort with proper husbandry and knowledgeable staff, a lot of us would buy Ts there. I gather most people here won't stop collecting any time soon. They could make more money that way.

Sadly, the big companies priorities are not animal care or accurate information.
 

nicodimus22

Arachnomancer
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
709
IMO the big two pet store chains focus on cats and dogs. That is where the grooming and training money comes from, that is where so much money is made for little to no effort on just food and toys. Everything else is a much lower priority.
 

Kendricks

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
148
Sadly, the big companies priorities are not animal care or accurate information.
"Would you like some water gel along with your new 3cm adult "Mexican Red Knee" in the nice terrarium with lots of things to climb onto while having it warm and cozy due to the 2cm of heat-mat treated wood chip substrate?" o_O
 

JoshDM020

Arachnobaron
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
358
knowledgeable staff
Multiple times have i considered getting jobs at pet stores to try and help fix these issues discretely and subconsciously train other employees to do the same.
Background: ive always been fascinated by animals and reasearch them as extensively as i can without paying for THAT long term schooling. Ive owned several types of exotic pets and been successful with them. Except for the freakin crabs, man. The freakin CRABS!! Weather is just too unpredictable for things with such meticulous criteria in Arkansas. Power goes out in the winter, gets too cold for anything without fur or things that cant handle bad conditions for a couple days. Like the little beauties we talk about here.
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
Active Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
5,689
Pet stores (or at least major chains-- specialty stores are ovbiously an exception) are not selling to us. They're not selling to people who know everything they can learn about their pet choice before they walk into the building. They're selling pets to people who come in, see something they want, and purchase everything
Wish I could give more than one 'agree' to this ^
 

Magenta

Arachnosquire
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
55
IMO the big two pet store chains focus on cats and dogs. That is where the grooming and training money comes from, that is where so much money is made for little to no effort on just food and toys. Everything else is a much lower priority.

Right, if they have no intention to provide proper care, they shouldn't sell them at all.
 

JoshDM020

Arachnobaron
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
358
Went to a pet store today to get crickets for my moms bearded dragon. G. porteri for $50. Saw one the same size in another store for less than 20. Guess where im not going anymore :happy:
 

user 666

Arachnobaron
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
Messages
351
IMO the big two pet store chains focus on cats and dogs. That is where the grooming and training money comes from, that is where so much money is made for little to no effort on just food and toys. Everything else is a much lower priority.
yes and no.

All of the small animals are low priority to pet stores because the money is in selling $150 worth of gear. (Who cares if the animal dies later?)

And frankly, I do not understand the hate for pet stores; few breeders/dealers any better.

Really, there's not much difference between the chains, the pet stores, and what some might call "ethical" breeders and dealers.

Pet stores don't care because Ts are easily replaceable and because the profit is in the gear. The only reason breeders/dealers care is because they're not selling the gear, so each T is valuable - right up until the sale.

I work with a dog rescue as a foster, so I have a different standard for ethical behavior. And what I see breeders/dealers doing does not even come close to ethical treatment of animals.

An ethical breeder/dealer would care about what happens to the T after the sale. An ethical breeder/dealer would not sell a half dozen Ts to just anyone at a show, nor would they let the Ts go without a care sheet and confirmation that the new owner was ready to take care of the Ts.

In comparison, I work with a dog rescue that interrogates adoptors, runs background checks, investigates their living conditions, and basically makes the new owners earn the privilege of adopting a dog. I don't know any breeder/dealer who even comes close to showing that level of concern, which is why I don't think there are any ethical breeders/dealers.

And yes, that is a ridiculous standard for a business, but breeders/dealers could do so much more to safeguard the wellbeing of Ts than they are doing now. They could, for example, list care instructions for each T on the T's webpage. They could email the instructions to buyers, and ask them to read it. They could inquire about enclosure sizes and owner experience level

Honestly, I do not see a huge difference between the chain pet stores and the independent breeders/dealers. The difference is only a matter of degree, not type, and it is a small difference.

P.S. No, I am not a member of PETA. I think they're nutcases; it's just that I happen to have strict standards for how I treat lifeforms in my care.
 

houston

Arachnopeon
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Messages
39
yes and no.

All of the small animals are low priority to pet stores because the money is in selling $150 worth of gear. (Who cares if the animal dies later?)

And frankly, I do not understand the hate for pet stores; few breeders/dealers any better.

Really, there's not much difference between the chains, the pet stores, and what some might call "ethical" breeders and dealers.

Pet stores don't care because Ts are easily replaceable and because the profit is in the gear. The only reason breeders/dealers care is because they're not selling the gear, so each T is valuable - right up until the sale.

I work with a dog rescue as a foster, so I have a different standard for ethical behavior. And what I see breeders/dealers doing does not even come close to ethical treatment of animals.

An ethical breeder/dealer would care about what happens to the T after the sale. An ethical breeder/dealer would not sell a half dozen Ts to just anyone at a show, nor would they let the Ts go without a care sheet and confirmation that the new owner was ready to take care of the Ts.

In comparison, I work with a dog rescue that interrogates adoptors, runs background checks, investigates their living conditions, and basically makes the new owners earn the privilege of adopting a dog. I don't know any breeder/dealer who even comes close to showing that level of concern, which is why I don't think there are any ethical breeders/dealers.

And yes, that is a ridiculous standard for a business, but breeders/dealers could do so much more to safeguard the wellbeing of Ts than they are doing now. They could, for example, list care instructions for each T on the T's webpage. They could email the instructions to buyers, and ask them to read it. They could inquire about enclosure sizes and owner experience level

Honestly, I do not see a huge difference between the chain pet stores and the independent breeders/dealers. The difference is only a matter of degree, not type, and it is a small difference.

P.S. No, I am not a member of PETA. I think they're nutcases; it's just that I happen to have strict standards for how I treat lifeforms in my care.
I dunno, I think it's not the best to apply "ethics" of one pet/ animal to another. Especially something as sophisticated as a dog to something as simple as an invert.

Additionally, saying breeders is bad is a very bad blanket statement. Pretty much no one breeds small animals or inverts for profit-- its a labor of love. Unless you're a massive breeder, like BHB Reptiles or Marshall's, you're lucky if you make enough off it to keep it in the black. Hobby breeders are the large majority, because they're not trying to make money. They're doing it for the love of the animal, or the hobby.

I raise rabbits, and I know all too well how hard it is to make money off it lmao. Most my sales are to other breeders and hobbyists, because there's not a big market for rabbits that aren't small and cute. These people seek me out to purchase their rabbits, as hobbyist seek out T breeders for their inverts. Similarly, I don't have to vet every single person who comes my way, because they already know. Hell, half the time I learn from them because their methods are different to mine. You can't vet how someone keeps their inverts as you would how someone keeps dogs, cause there's so many different and equally good ways. Keeping a dog in a garage and tossing food in isn't equatable to someone keeping a T in a Tupperware. If every breeder held a buyer to care for the T *exactly* how they do, there wouldn't be much innovation in the hobby.

No one who hasn't at least *kinda* researched T's is gonna go to an expo or confront a breeder. There's too many options, too many sellers, too many things that confuse them. They don't want to raise a sling, they don't know what an instar is, they just want a big ol' spider. They'd rather go to the pet store, yes I'd like the big hairy Tree Rose Baboon Tarantula, can I put it in a fishbowl, great thank you very much! Expos are too out of the way, ordering online is too expensive, they'd rather go to the local Petco and drop 20-30 dollars there for their own convenience.

Care instructions are everywhere-- who doesn't post links? Big websites like bugs in cyber space and Jamie's have links and advice regarding their animals on the website. A buyr isn't going to find a smaller breeder by accident, either-- they're going to research what they want and who has the best. Maybe not every website has personalized instructions for every T, but they usually have enough that a base understanding can be gleaned. If someone isn't going to seek out the information that's readily available online, they're not going to read the linked care sheets.

Asking someone to read instructions will only do so much. All a person can do is offer resources; it's not within their domain to enforce it. Even if you hold the sale until they read it, it's not hard to lie on the internet.

I'm not knockin' what you do. Dogs deserve heavy vetting, especially dogs who end up in a shelter. Tarantulas just don't need that much concern, and with how comparatively small the culture is, the gatekeeping would really not do anything to expand that.
 

Garth Vader

Arachnobaron
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
436
I have talked to a lot of people who do the dog training programs at the chain stores, which are terrible. I don't get it at all. And the owners don't seem to recognize that their dogs didn't learn very much and their behaviors didn't improve. I just really don't get it.

Yes. This is all true what you posted here. I really need to find a new way to get crickets for my Ts instead of frequenting the stupid petco.
 

Magenta

Arachnosquire
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
55
yes and no.

All of the small animals are low priority to pet stores because the money is in selling $150 worth of gear. (Who cares if the animal dies later?)

And frankly, I do not understand the hate for pet stores; few breeders/dealers any better.

Really, there's not much difference between the chains, the pet stores, and what some might call "ethical" breeders and dealers.

Pet stores don't care because Ts are easily replaceable and because the profit is in the gear. The only reason breeders/dealers care is because they're not selling the gear, so each T is valuable - right up until the sale.

I work with a dog rescue as a foster, so I have a different standard for ethical behavior. And what I see breeders/dealers doing does not even come close to ethical treatment of animals.

An ethical breeder/dealer would care about what happens to the T after the sale. An ethical breeder/dealer would not sell a half dozen Ts to just anyone at a show, nor would they let the Ts go without a care sheet and confirmation that the new owner was ready to take care of the Ts.

In comparison, I work with a dog rescue that interrogates adoptors, runs background checks, investigates their living conditions, and basically makes the new owners earn the privilege of adopting a dog. I don't know any breeder/dealer who even comes close to showing that level of concern, which is why I don't think there are any ethical breeders/dealers.

And yes, that is a ridiculous standard for a business, but breeders/dealers could do so much more to safeguard the wellbeing of Ts than they are doing now. They could, for example, list care instructions for each T on the T's webpage. They could email the instructions to buyers, and ask them to read it. They could inquire about enclosure sizes and owner experience level

Honestly, I do not see a huge difference between the chain pet stores and the independent breeders/dealers. The difference is only a matter of degree, not type, and it is a small difference.

P.S. No, I am not a member of PETA. I think they're nutcases; it's just that I happen to have strict standards for how I treat lifeforms in my care.

I've done a lot of volunteering in rescues and fostering and I know exactly what you mean. I only lasted working at the Humane Society for about 3months. I don't even know how many times I've heard people ask if they could give up their cat or dog because it was old, but then they wanted to adopt a kitten or puppy to replace it, like trading in a car or something. :rage::bigtears:

Most breed clubs(for dogs, I'm not sure about cats) have a code of ethics, and a rescue network to take in homeless dogs. I would say that responsible breeders have their place. I want there to be some good breeders out there trying to breed out genetic problems.



Edit:

Well, that was random and incoherent. I know I had a point when I started.:confused:
 
Last edited:

Trenor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
1,899
As I wrote on another thread:

You realize Ts are kept in bad conditions for the same reason that the pet gold fish are keep poor conditions right? It has nothing to do with selling and more to do with them being such a low amount on the revenue stream. They honestly make more money in a day off cat and dog food, pet supplies and grooming (and those god awful pet suits) then they make off of pet sales in weeks. With a new pet, some equipment sales are made but that's not even a big part of the revenue. The only reason they have those pets at all is to make their store a one stop shop which drives out local shops and keeps other chains from coming in.

In the end, you not buying from them is unlikely to affect them at all. If everyone on this board stopped buying from them as spread out as we are it's unlikely to affect them at all. However, I will say there are a number of store that I don't buy from because I dislike them. They are not hindered in the slightest by my personal boycott.

The pet store's massive bottom line will be largely unaffected regardless of if you buy the T or not. So if you see one and want it... pick it up. If you hate the place and don't want to give them your money that's ok too. Either way, I doubt they will change their business model based on what you do. Likely, they wont even notice.
 
Top