A Question that Google Cannot Answer

[viper69]

I think an arboreal could live on the ground perfectly well if it wanted to. If a terrestrial decided to climb up in a tree and stay there, then as long as it doesn't fall, it would probably be fine.

Man, you have no faith in our little 8 legged friends.

 

[Venom1080]

'Wary' and 'leery' are pretty interchangeable, sillies..

thank you!

 

[Leila]

I can't wait to get off work so I can actually read everyone's input. I promise that I will also take part in this discussion- just give me an hour or so.

 

[darkness975]

@Leila I agree with others in that the type of cover available in captivity may play a role in this.

Also, Google contains "data." Not necessarily "information." The former is not always proven, while the latter more often is. Part of what I do for a living is studying the whole "data vs information" dichotomy.

 

[Leila]

@Leila I agree with others in that the type of cover available in captivity may play a role in this.

Also, Google contains "data." Not necessarily "information." The former is not always proven, while the latter more often is. Part of what I do for a living is studying the whole "data vs information" dichotomy.

I agree to an extent, love

But can you imagine the look on a librarian's face if I were to bounce into their library and ask the question in the original post? (I came here because this forum is comprised of people who take special interest related to the question that was plaguing my mind.)

 

[Leila]

Now that I am home and sitting cozily on my couch with a bowl of warm pasta to consume, I want to extend a "thank you" to all of you who offered input here (and kept this discussion civil.)

 

[nicodimus22]

can you imagine the look on a librarian's face if I were to bounce into their library and ask the question in the original post?

You never know. My GF is a librarian and I bet she could help people who asked that without looking like

 

[Arachnophoric]

You know, something I've been wondering is whether or not arboreal Ts are better adapted to life than terrestrials in every way. They're better able to drop down, they're faster, they supposedly have better eyesight, and they can climb better. You might be thinking terrestrials can dig better, but since arboreals have wider feet, I would think the arboreals can dig better. Are terrestrials stronger? Because if not, arboreals make them look like wimps.

If this were the case, you'd think the arboreals would live longer than the terrestrials, and not vice-versa... If I'm recalling correctly anyway, don't terrestrials generally have a longer lifespan than their arboreal counterparts? Forgive me if I'm mistaken!

That being said, is there any particular reasoning arboreals seem to have shorter lifespans in relation to terrestrials? Not to derail the thread by any means, sort of musing out loud.

 

[Leila]

You never know. My GF is a librarian and I bet she could help people who asked that without looking like

True.

Let me say this though: I can Guarantee that I would be given the wild-eyed stare at my local library. Lol. Anyway- this is not a debate on where we acquire our info.

XO

 

[viper69]

If this were the case, you'd think the arboreals would live longer than the terrestrials, and not vice-versa... If I'm recalling correctly anyway, don't terrestrials generally have a longer lifespan than their arboreal counterparts? Forgive me if I'm mistaken!

That being said, is there any particular reasoning arboreals seem to have shorter lifespans in relation to terrestrials? Not to derail the thread by any means, sort of musing out loud.

You are correct. @Moakmeister , Arach. found a flaw in your idea..what say you?

Arboreals live far shorter than the mighty B. smithi

 

[Leila]

If this were the case, you'd think the arboreals would live longer than the terrestrials, and not vice-versa... If I'm recalling correctly anyway, don't terrestrials generally have a longer lifespan than their arboreal counterparts? Forgive me if I'm mistaken!

That being said, is there any particular reasoning arboreals seem to have shorter lifespans in relation to terrestrials? Not to derail the thread by any means, sort of musing out loud.

I don't perceive your question as any sort of derailment. I kinda want to know the answer to your question as well

 

[Moakmeister]

If this were the case, you'd think the arboreals would live longer than the terrestrials, and not vice-versa... If I'm recalling correctly anyway, don't terrestrials generally have a longer lifespan than their arboreal counterparts? Forgive me if I'm mistaken!

That being said, is there any particular reasoning arboreals seem to have shorter lifespans in relation to terrestrials? Not to derail the thread by any means, sort of musing out loud.

Ah yes, terrestrials do live longer

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I will throw in my two cents here. The question is a general one as many arboreal species of tarantula have adaptations to specific habitats off the ground. A few examples being Pachistopelma bromelicola are adapted to live in bromeliad plants, Stromatoplema calceata are found high up in the palm trees and make their retreats in the palm leaves, Poecilotheria species are found in holes in trees, immature Avicularia species make their retreats by rolling up leaves close to the ground. One species in particular is very interesting and that is Avicularia avicularia. This species is very wide spread in South America and make their homes in everything from nooks and crannies in trees, the eves of roofs, and so on. They remind me of Aphonopelma hentzi in that it is the fossorial species in the USA that has the largest distribution and has adapted to a large amount of habitats and makes its retreat in a multitude of different spaces.

Generally though, arboreal tarantulas are found making their retreats in holes and nooks in tree trunks. To answer your question on why arboreal tarantulas situate themselves close to or on the floor of their enclosure in captivity, it would be because they have neither the space or an adequate place to live a solely arboreal lifestyle. In other words, the behavior is a product of the confinement of captivity. I have never seen any tarantula keeper house an arboreal species of tarantula in the same manner they are described to be living in the wild by those who publish their observations in journals. For good reason too. It would be not be feasible to keep a large tree with a wide trunk in your house to keep an Avicularia sp. on for instance. Even if one could in an outdoor greenhouse for instance, there is no guarantee it would find it a suitable place to live.

All of the reasons thus far provided are specific examples of why an arboreal tarantula would live on the floor of their enclosure- cover, food, water, etc. - but ultimately it would be because an arboreal tarantula doesn't have a suitable habitat to live high up as it would in nature. All of the resources an arboreal tarantula needs in captivity are at the bottom of an enclosure. I think it would be a mistake to assume wild behavior by observations in captivity. The behavior of an arboreal tarantula living at or close to the bottom of an enclosure would be the same as a fossorial tarantula not burrowing. Grammostola rosea is a fossorial species of tarantulas just the same as Chilobrachys, Cyriopagopus, Selenocosmia, etc., but you don't hear of anyone saying that not providing G. rosea with an obligate burrow style housing is wrong. Why? Because in captivity G. rosea doesn't need to burrow or can't. That is one example of a fossorial tarantula not living as such due to being in captivity but generally, any tarantula that lives on the ground is fossorial in nature. The same can be said about arboreal tarantulas and their seemingly backwards lifestyle in captivity.

There is only one full ecological study of an arboreal tarantula I would encourage all to seek and read. It is on Avicularia avicularia in Trinidad. It will provide some prospective on how captive husbandry does not at all reflect natural conditions.

Stradling, David J. "Distribution and Behavioral Ecology of an ArborealTarantula'Spider in Trinidad." Biotropica (1994): 84-97.

 

[Leila]

I will throw in my two cents here. The question is a general one as many arboreal species of tarantula have adaptations to specific habitats off the ground. A few examples being Pachistopelma bromelicola are adapted to live in bromeliad plants, Stromatoplema calceata are found high up in the palm trees and make their retreats in the palm leaves, Poecilotheria species are found in holes in trees, immature Avicularia species make their retreats by rolling up leaves close to the ground. One species in particular is very interesting and that is Avicularia avicularia. This species is very wide spread in South America and make their homes in everything from nooks and crannies in trees, the eves of roofs, and so on. They remind me of Aphonopelma hentzi in that it is the fossorial species in the USA that has the largest distribution and has adapted to a large amount of habitats and makes its retreat in a multitude of different spaces.

Generally though, arboreal tarantulas are found making their retreats in holes and nooks in tree trunks. To answer your question on why arboreal tarantulas situate themselves close to or on the floor of their enclosure in captivity, it would be because they have neither the space or an adequate place to live a solely arboreal lifestyle. In other words, the behavior is a product of the confinement of captivity. I have never seen any tarantula keeper house an arboreal species of tarantula in the same manner they are described to be living in the wild by those who publish their observations in journals. For good reason too. It would be not be feasible to keep a large tree with a wide trunk in your house to keep an Avicularia sp. on for instance. Even if one could in an outdoor greenhouse for instance, there is no guarantee it would find it a suitable place to live.

All of the reasons thus far provided are specific examples of why an arboreal tarantula would live on the floor of their enclosure- cover, food, water, etc. - but ultimately it would be because an arboreal tarantula doesn't have a suitable habitat to live high up as it would in nature. All of the resources an arboreal tarantula needs in captivity are at the bottom of an enclosure. I think it would be a mistake to assume wild behavior by observations in captivity. The behavior of an arboreal tarantula living at or close to the bottom of an enclosure would be the same as a fossorial tarantula not burrowing. Grammostola rosea is a fossorial species of tarantulas just the same as Chilobrachys, Cyriopagopus, Selenocosmia, etc., but you don't hear of anyone saying that not providing G. rosea with an obligate burrow style housing is wrong. Why? Because in captivity G. rosea doesn't need to burrow or can't. That is one example of a fossorial tarantula not living as such due to being in captivity but generally, any tarantula that lives on the ground is fossorial in nature. The same can be said about arboreal tarantulas and their seemingly backwards lifestyle in captivity.

There is only one full ecological study of an arboreal study I would encourage all to seek and read. It is on Avicularia avicularia in Trinidad. It will provide some prospective on how captive husbandry does not reflect natural conditions.

Stradling, David J. "Distribution and Behavioral Ecology of an ArborealTarantula'Spider in Trinidad." Biotropica (1994): 84-97.

*muah!*
Thank you for the info!

(leaving for a bit to read the suggested material)

 

[vespers]

Generally though, arboreal tarantulas are found making their retreats in holes and nooks in tree trunks. To answer your question on why arboreal tarantulas situate themselves close to or on the floor of their enclosure in captivity, it would be because they have neither the space or an adequate place to live a solely arboreal lifestyle. In other words, the behavior is a product of the confinement of captivity. I have never seen any tarantula keeper house an arboreal species of tarantula in the same manner they are described to be living in the wild by those who publish their observations in journals. For good reason too. It would be not be feasible to keep a large tree with a wide trunk in your house to keep an Avicularia sp. on for instance. Even if one could in an outdoor greenhouse for instance, there is no guarantee it would find it a suitable place to live.

All of the reasons thus far provided are specific examples of why an arboreal tarantula would live on the floor of their enclosure- cover, food, water, etc. - but ultimately it would be because an arboreal tarantula doesn't have a suitable habitat to live high up as it would in nature. All of the resources an arboreal tarantula needs in captivity are at the bottom of an enclosure. I think it would be a mistake to assume wild behavior by observations in captivity. The behavior of an arboreal tarantula living at or close to the bottom of an enclosure would be the same as a fossorial tarantula not burrowing. Grammostola rosea is a fossorial species of tarantulas just the same as Chilobrachys, Cyriopagopus, Selenocosmia, etc., but you don't hear of anyone saying that not providing G. rosea with an obligate burrow style housing is wrong. Why? Because in captivity G. rosea doesn't need to burrow or can't. That is one example of a fossorial tarantula not living as such due to being in captivity but generally, any tarantula that lives on the ground is fossorial in nature. The same can be said about arboreal tarantulas and their seemingly backwards lifestyle in captivity.

^ This exactly.

I've touched upon this just briefly a few days ago in another of Leila's threads, and how it relates to enclosures. The distinction between arboreal and terrestrial enclosures are tenuous at best. An 18 inch tall enclosure isn't really any more "arboreal" than a 12 inch one, nor is it truly arboreal. Its just how people perceive them...when they see an enclosure that's wider than it is tall, their mind perceives it to be a terrestrial enclosure. They see one that's taller than it is wide, and they perceive it to be arboreal. For the inhabitant, those few inches often make little difference (perhaps relative to the size of the animal in some cases). Its merely one of the limitations of our captive husbandry. Even the term "arboreal" has seemed to drift away from its actual meaning a bit, in the context of the hobby. The word has become more "lives up on the walls/near the top of the enclosure", more so than "living in trees".

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I see where you are coming from.

Peanut's sack? :-s

Man, you have no faith in our little 8 legged friends.

His faith in Peanut recently was low u_u

 

[creepa]

@AphonopelmaTX is spot on...

Its all in what we provide our Theraphosidae to live in.