A new Hysterocrates species????

Ian14

Arachnobaron
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Nov 27, 2019
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324
I've just seen an advert on a well known UK based reptile forum, offering what is claimed to be a new species of Hysterocrates, H goliathus. The seller claims to have been selectively breeding these for the last 13 years and is releasing a small number of offspring to the hobby.
Now I'm a little sceptical, especially as 1) I can't find any trace of this name and 2) the reference to 13 years of selective breeding, because this would mean that the species was discovered at least 13 years ago and so would be published and likely offered for sale already.
So, is this a genuine new species or something made up?
 

The Grym Reaper

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I just looked up the ad and that looks almost as dodgy as that guy on here and Wastebook who claims the random spiders he found in a plant shipment are the real H. hercules and was trying to sell them for £1,000 a pop, avoid.
 

Tarantuland

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With absolutely no context beside what you provided… sounds made up
 

Theraphosid Research Team

Arachnoknight
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This is most certainly a fake that is all about money. The genus Hysterocrates has numerous species and has not yet been revised, which makes identification extremely difficult even for us specialists. A normal tarantula owner or dealer has no possibility and not the knowledge to identify the animals - mostly without exact locality - correctly. I think it is once again a dealer who wants to get as much money as possible out of a 0815 species.
 

Ian14

Arachnobaron
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Nov 27, 2019
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324
Thanks for the replies, it does read as dodgy as hell.
He is claiming to have spent 13 years line breeding from 4 pairs of Hysterocrates, to develop faster growing spiders that get huge.
He has backed down from his initial claim and admitted to having made up the name "goliathus" because it sounded "cool" 🤣
 

Liquifin

Arachnoking
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People who do this only wants one of two things: Money or Credibility.

Sad to see such a obvious scam, but it is becoming more common the longer this hobby goes on.

as dodgy as that guy on here and Wastebook who claims the random spiders he found in a plant shipment are the real H. hercules and was trying to sell them for £1,000 a pop
Isn't that @Paul Osullivan who was the one making that claim? @Theraphosid Research Team I recommend talking with him, as he says some strange and questionable things about having some Hysterocrates he claims as the real Hysterocrates hercules.
 

Moyzie

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He was claiming to have bred only the biggest of the biggest, with the biggest of the biggest - and this was the 4th generation of the biggest biggest.

TBF after much harassment (like, can you really imagine a forum being full of hostile defensive users?) he did say the name was made up and it was more of a project that he embarked on. His hope was finding others out there who also only wanted to breed the biggest possible and was offering a buy back scheme. He wanted to find others doing something similar and take part in his "project"

The advert has now been edited my moderators and the "discussion" removed

It makes me think of breeding racing horses or prize winning dogs
 

Chris LXXIX

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For my views about, there's absolutely no valid reasons for pay anything Hysterocrates here in Europe more than 20Є (of course, not slings) considering how many times that genus went messed up and mixed during years.

Great spiders, don't get me wrong, but :shifty:
 

Arachnophobphile

Arachnoangel
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I remember reading this:


I didn't pay any attention to it though.
 

Moyzie

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For my views about, there's absolutely no valid reasons for pay anything Hysterocrates here in Europe more than 20Є (of course, not slings) considering how many times that genus went messed up and mixed during years.

Great spiders, don't get me wrong, but :shifty:
Agreed
 
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AlbaArachnids92

Arachnoknight
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Jun 26, 2021
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177
Jesus wept.......so charging through the roof for 'bigger than usual' cheap T's under an enticing name you made up.....
 

Moyzie

Arachnosquire
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An AMERICAN has now asked about shipping to the states - is that someone trolling him ?
 

Scolopeon

Arachnoknight
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I’m the guy selling those over there and as I’m U.K. based that is where I was originally posting to release a small batch, not the entire stock I have of them.

They were never claimed to be a newly discovered species (I made an error putting New species in the title which was quickly rectified but in the post body I explained what the project was about and how these were line bred and the new name Hysterocrates sp. “Goliath” is a means to preserve said giant genetics over generations) it was explained in this very post they are part of a selective breeding project spanning 13 years and all he had to do was ask and I would have answered, not turn it into some massively negative witch hunt (which if you have a look at his post history on RFUK he seems like quite an unpleasant and spiteful individual to deal with)

A lot of hard work went into selectively breeding this way and with some very promising results. The largest females are approaching 105mm body. So over time I’ve seen line bred gigantism.

They are priced slightly more than normal H gigas but I believe in my project and time, not just a bunch of random Hysterocrates bred once then resold, which is reflected in the price here and a lot of effort went into sourcing and breeding over that 13 year span, so they are marked up a little higher than normal.

He is also spouting it on the RFUK forums like he’s part of a high profile witch hunt on some massive international forum as if he’s some hero, busting scammers worldwide, that is the real farce here.
Of course I’m over here as I have been for years and yes the project is real, i’ve posted evidence of the growth and sizes of the initial adults.

Any other questions ask away.
 

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Theraphosid Research Team

Arachnoknight
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I’m the guy selling those over there and as I’m U.K. based that is where I was originally posting to release a small batch, not the entire stock I have of them.

They were never claimed to be a newly discovered species (I made an error putting New species in the title which was quickly rectified but in the post body I explained what the project was about and how these were line bred and the new name Hysterocrates sp. “Goliath” is a means to preserve said giant genetics over generations) it was explained in this very post they are part of a selective breeding project spanning 13 years and all he had to do was ask and I would have answered, not turn it into some massively negative witch hunt (which if you have a look at his post history on RFUK he seems like quite an unpleasant and spiteful individual to deal with)

A lot of hard work went into selectively breeding this way and with some very promising results. The largest females are approaching 105mm body. So over time I’ve seen line bred gigantism.

They are priced slightly more than normal H gigas but I believe in my project and time, not just a bunch of random Hysterocrates bred once then resold, which is reflected in the price here and a lot of effort went into sourcing and breeding over that 13 year span, so they are marked up a little higher than normal.

He is also spouting it on the RFUK forums like he’s part of a high profile witch hunt on some massive international forum as if he’s some hero, busting scammers worldwide, that is the real farce here.
Of course I’m over here as I have been for years and yes the project is real, i’ve posted evidence of the growth and sizes of the initial adults.

Any other questions ask away.
Hi, how many generations did you need to breed a genetically fixed and statistically relevant size? How do you know that the size of the Offspring is genetic and could not be dependent on other environmental factors? How many animals have you measured for a statistically detectable size growth? Are these animals deposited somewhere as specimens, e.g. in a museum or another publicly accessible collection?
 

Scolopeon

Arachnoknight
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Hi, how many generations did you need to breed a genetically fixed and statistically relevant size? How do you know that the size of the Offspring is genetic and could not be dependent on other environmental factors? How many animals have you measured for a statistically detectable size growth? Are these animals deposited somewhere as specimens, e.g. in a museum or another publicly accessible collection?
Well that’s a bit out of my scope to have them deposited at a museum considering I cannot even know the locality of them, gigas is the closest match.

I’m at generation 3 with two different sets of large adults (to keep genetic diversity), So still early on in the project (that’s taken 13 years altogether), but I’ve seen consistent large size across those 3 generations with each generation the max size has increased.
The slings are getting bigger and shedding faster across each generation, at 6 months old I have one that has reached 5” in legspan (which is extremely fast given that the original generation male took 8-10months to get to that size). But the average size of the slings are ranging from 3-5” and I have normal gigas and Hysterocrates to compare to, and none of those match the growth rate at only 6 months old.

All my spiders are kept in the same conditions and these ones are just way bigger than the other Hysterocrates species I keep and have kept logs of.

I need to breed more generations to say 100 percent that it wasn’t just a confirmation bias, but that’s a small leap of faith by going along a similar analogue when outbreeding for size in other animals, you breed two large parents together the resulting offspring are likely going to be like the parents size or more as adults, with both parents giving genes for larger than average size.

The whole point of the separate name was so they don’t get bred back into regular sized Hysterocrates and the genes bred back out over time.

The point in the buy back scheme is so that other people taking part in the project can reship me males to breed back into the project and preserve said genes.

So far the largest female is 9” and 5-6 years old so she still has a lot of room to grow. As do her siblings who are in the 8” range.

The point of releasing a small batch to breeders was to get these established in the hobby as a project of this scope is a lot for one guy to keep going on, especially as you breed down the generations, I just felt it was time to start getting others on board.
So by getting other serious breeders involved in the project, we can get these established as a giant variant of the Hysterocrates genus. Since they are selectively bred for size Hysterocrates sp. “Goliath” seems like a good name to keep them diverse.

I’m in no way a biologist, but I have at least a basic interest in genetics. I acquired the original adults by accident and realised how lucky I was to get them at those sizes shown.

Something similar has been done with the Giant morph leopard Gecko. Just with spiders it takes a lot longer.

The goal is to produce an old world that doesn’t flick hairs with new world bird eating proportions. That’s the primary motivator, I suffer a huge allergic reaction to urticating hairs. The itching last for months after the initial contact with them, waking up at 3 am scratching like mad and turns into dozens of tiny firey itchy water filled blisters that only feel relief under extreme heat or when popped with a needle, and I don’t want to keep repeating that experience.
 
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Scolopeon

Arachnoknight
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Wanted to post an update as the current gen has just produced an absolute unit of a male spider, over 7” legspan.

The project is alive and well, will be breeding him back to one of my big females which are all over 8” the largest tipping close to 9”
 

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