A. geniculata enclosure advice

[JonnyTorch]

I also bought the heatpads and thermostats used for much cheaper

Do NOT use heatpads or heat mats, they will slowly cook your tarantula. A thermostat is of no use. Room temperature is fine.

 

[TechnoGeek]

Do NOT use heatpads or heat mats, they will slowly cook your tarantula. A thermostat is of no use. Room temperature is fine.

Incorrect and room temperature is a meaningless term as some people (including myself) are comfortable keeping their room temperature in the low 60s which is too cold for most Ts.

Heatpads won't cook your T if they're hooked to a thermostat anymore than you central heating system will cook you. I also keep them on the side of the enclosure not the bottom since they escape heat by digging. I keep most of my Ts at 82-83F and been doing this for years.

Now as always I don't tell people what to do, but please don't correct people if you're gonna say room temperature. The correct thing to say is that they're fine in the low 70s so if that's where you keep your room temperature at you don't need anything else, and I wouldn't keep a T any colder than that.

 

[JonnyTorch]

Incorrect

Dude you do whatever you want. I'm not here for you I'm here for the T's. It's never suggested to use a heat mat and you're telling me it's cool. Room temperature is fine for a tarantula. If you're comfortable they are comfortable. I've been keeping them for years and I've seen horror stories from mistakes others have made and I'm trying to get others to avoid them. Do whatever you want I could care less.

 

[TechnoGeek]

Dude you do whatever you want. I'm not here for you I'm here for the T's. It's never suggested to use a heat mat and you're telling me it's cool. Room temperature is fine for a tarantula. If you're comfortable they are comfortable. I've been keeping them for years and I've seen horror stories from mistakes others have made and I'm trying to get others to avoid them. Do whatever you want I could care less.

You're not here for the Ts if you think they're comfortable if a human is comfortable. Your statement is scientifically incorrect and a bit silly. "You" are an endothermic mammal while they're ectothermic arthropods. You couldn't be more different. You have a much much higher base metabolic rate for a reason. If you don't get enough heat from your environment your body can use your food to generate it and you wouldn't feel much discomfort unless it gets really cold, meanwhile a T could do nothing to make itself warmer. Brazilian Ts for example live in place where temperature fluctuates around high 70s to mid 80s most of the year, you thinking they're fine in any room temperature is denial.

If you care about Ts at all, stop repeating this factually incorrect statement, especially around noobs.

 

[JonnyTorch]

You're not here for the Ts if you think they're comfortable if a human is comfortable. Your statement is scientifically incorrect and a bit silly. "You" are an endothermic mammal while they're ectothermic arthropods. You couldn't be more different. You have a much much higher base metabolic rate for a reason. If you don't get enough heat from your environment your body can use your food to generate it and you wouldn't feel much discomfort unless it gets really cold, meanwhile a T could do nothing to make itself warmer. Brazilian Ts for example live in place where temperature fluctuates around high 70s to mid 80s, you thinking they're fine in any room temperature is denial.

If you care about Ts at all, stop repeating this factually incorrect statement, especially around noobs.

I think you're just wasting a power outlet. With your statements you're suggesting I'm keeping my tarantulas incorrectly. I've had plenty, and a few that are almost a decade old right now that I've had the entire time since they were less than 1/2" and now they're mature adults without issues and they are desert species. They go into the ground to cool off in their habitat. Without it being that hot in our homes they don't need to go underground to cool off. It's that simple. With all of your mammal talk about how we're different, it's just jibberish. All noobs need to know is don't use a heat pad and water their dish and remove uneaten prey. If you're trying to get noobs information, telling them to use a heat mat will kill their T's far faster than it would if they didn't without proper knowledge. I'm not going to continue this anymore. Do whatever you want man, but it's not necessary to have a heat mat and frankly it's a waste of a power outlet.

 

[TechnoGeek]

Science isn't gibberish just cause you don't understand it science is there whether you wanna admit it or not.

I didn't say you in particular are keeping them poorly, I'd like you to show me where I did that. I said your statement is factually incorrect, which it is and no amount of denial would change that. Room temperature can be anything, doesn't mean it's always appropriate for Ts.

Just because you read something in a care sheet or heard it in a YouTube video doesn't mean it's written in stone.. this is a hobby not a religion. It's a much better habit to keep an open mind and listen to science and not cover your ears and keep swearing by something just cause that's the way things have been done for a while. If we were to do that we would still be keeping them like we did in the 80s or 90s.

 

[JonnyTorch]

Science isn't gibberish just cause you don't understand it science is there whether you wanna admit it or not.

Just because you read something in a care sheet or heard it in a YouTube video doesn't mean it's written in stone.

I understand science and I understand what a tarantulas actual needs are. Putting a heat mat on your tarantulas cages is not going to produce any better results than not having one, in fact it can produce more harm than good.

I have never read nor care to read care sheets and never get info from YouTube channels. I get 100% of my information from these boards and from avoiding people talking about science, and from listening to the people that have kept them for 10, 20, 30 years. Anyway, you do you man I'm done. Good luck.

 

[TechnoGeek]

I understand science and I understand what a tarantulas actual needs are. Putting a heat mat on your tarantulas cages is not going to produce any better results than not having one, in fact it can produce more harm than good.

I have never read nor care to read care sheets and never get info from YouTube channels. I get 100% of my information from these boards and from avoiding people talking about science and listening to the people that have kept them for 10, 20, 30 years. Anyway, you do you man I'm done. Good luck.

I guess this is where I might start ignoring your posts. You either get it or you don't, and you don't. Either that or you are deliberately posting misleading information.

Your source for saying higher ambient temperature doesn't make a difference?? Cause I'm pretty sure you made that up. I made a thread about the growth rate of Ts after and before increasing their ambient temperature and feeding them better prey. The difference was huge, with growth rates speeding up by 2 or 3 folds, and the T being more active and less lethargic.

And no, you don't understand science if you say correcting projecting a human's need on a T is gibberish. You think you do (maybe) but you don't. Actually you probably don't because this part:

from avoiding people talking about science

Is abundantly clear.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

I guess this is where I might start ignoring your posts. You either get it or you don't, and you don't. Either that or you are deliberately posting misleading information.

Your source for saying higher ambient temperature doesn't make a difference?? Cause I'm pretty sure you made that up. I made a thread about the growth rate of Ts after and before increasing their ambient temperature and feeding them better prey. The difference was huge, with growth rates speeding up by 2 or 3 folds, and the T being more active and less lethargic.

And no, you don't understand science if you say correcting projecting a human's need on a T is gibberish. You think you do (maybe) but you don't. Actually you probably don't because this part:



Is abundantly clear.

Yeah, honestly you're banging your head against a brick wall trying to argue with most Americans about heat mats. We've been using them in Europe for decades with great success, European members have made countless posts and threads regarding the correct use of heat mats (which is so easy to do that even a complete newbie could understand it) in an attempt to dispel the stigma surrounding their use and they still regurgitate the same tired old nonsense.
Also, "If you're comfortable then they're comfortable" is one of the dumbest things I still constantly see parroted in this hobby, it doesn't take into account that different people are comfortable at different temperatures, the cold would kill my tarantulas long before it got to the point where I would find it uncomfortable whereas temperatures that I find uncomfortably hot wouldn't even phase them.

 

[JonnyTorch]

Happy for you guys.

 

[TechnoGeek]

Yeah, honestly you're banging you're head against a brick wall trying to argue with most Americans about heat mats. We've been using them in Europe for decades with great success, European members have made countless posts and threads regarding the correct use of heat mats (which is so easy to do that even a complete newbie could understand it) in an attempt to dispel the stigma surrounding their use and they still regurgitate the same tired old nonsense.
Also, "If you're comfortable then they're comfortable" is one of the dumbest things I still constantly see parroted in this hobby, it doesn't take into account that different people are comfortable at different temperatures, the cold would kill my tarantulas long before it got to the point where I would find it uncomfortable whereas temperatures that I find uncomfortably hot wouldn't even phase them.

Thank you. I mean I'm not one of those hippies who would tell you you need a minimum 20 gal tank for a T or something silly, but if something as cheap and readily available as a heatpad is enough to better replicate their natural habitat why not do it? To me they're animals and just as important as my dog or parrot and the latters cost me more per month than it costs me to buy heatpads and thermostats for all of my inverts combined.

I tried to logically explain why there's no good argument against using heatpads and why saying if you're comfortable they're comfortable is pretty dumb but some people either don't care or just don't get it.

But what was really facepalmingly dumb is saying that just cause we've been doing something for a while we can ignore the science and just keep doing it the old way. Imagine keeping them like we were in the 80s.. better yet imagine trying to cut tuberculosis with herbs.. I mean technically it's the same argument, we were doing that for hundreds of years.

 

[mickeydubs]

This is Geralt my A. geniculata. They have two pieces of cork bark and leaf litter but you would not know it as they have buried everything! (even their water dish that I fix on a DAILY basis) I finally put a plastic leaf in so it is not so bare.. are they trying to tell me something? Is their enclosure to small for them now? They don't kick hairs and allow me to handle them (for now) so I don't think they are unhappy

I do not believe that moving substrate around and burying things signals anything to worry about. In my experience, sometimes Ts just do that. I recently caught my G. pulchripes and A. bicoloratum doing just that. Based on the pictures you sent, the enclosure doesn't seem too small to me, but I'd like to hear others' opinions on the size of the enclosure. What are the measurements of the enclosure and how big (approximately) is Geralt? Great name, by the way.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Based on the pictures you sent, the enclosure doesn't seem too small to me, but I'd like to hear others' opinions on the size of the enclosure.

It's more than adequate IMO.

but if something as cheap and readily available as a heatpad is enough to better replicate their natural habitat why not do it?

For sure. Also, if you only have a few tarantulas then heat mats are much more cost effective to run than running a space heater.

I tried to logically explain why there's no good argument against using heatpads and why saying if you're comfortable they're comfortable is pretty dumb but some people either don't care or just don't get it.

Yeah, it's like some passed down irrational hatred at this point, it's kinda funny but also extremely sad at the same time.

I've always hated the "if you're comfortable they're comfortable" thing, if you live in Florida and are an actual lizard then it might have some validity but that's about it. It also leads to a barrage of questions asking "Will a British heatwave kill my tarantulas? Do I need to take a gazillion extra steps to cool them down?" every summer. The only animal in my house that is suffering during a British heatwave is me, my M. mesomelas copes much better with temps in the 30's (high 80's and above for those who use freedom units) than I do lol.

 

[Matt Man]

I keep most of my larger terrestrials in 20" x 10" enclosures (51cM x 26cm)

I'm an American, my house is old and heating is sparse and air conditioning does not exist. "Room Temperature" in Winter can be in the high 40s. I have used artificial heat like many of the non Americans do here for years and never had a problem. If you keep your spider room in the mid 70s, then by all means you don't need it, but not all folks keep their homes that warm. A FTR, just so all of you know, colder interior temps reduce bacteria, cockroaches and mosquitos which is why hospitals are always cool. It also burns calories, reduces inflammation, supposedly promotes better sleep. The last aside is it keeps people closer (cuddling) which has tons of bennies

 

[Kada]

I keep seeing this advice (and I'm not doubting it), but the enclosures you can purchase specifically made for tarantulas fall so short. I believe tarantula cribs largest is 12"x12". Herpcult has an XL that is 16"x12". The top sizes for the acrylic enclosures smaller than recommended because acrylic will warp too bad with a longer span? As my Ts grow I'm debating building their final enclosures myself, but I haven't worked with acrylic (I have quite some time to learn). I have worked extensively with wood. If needed I'm sure I could build in some additional support that would work with the needed style.

My best guess is that some manufacturers only build to a certain size based on logistics and market size. enclosure size vs shipping costs vs profits couple with random breakage. They arent the only option, so just use them is the size makes sense, otherwise search elsewhere or DIY The T industry isnt like the fish industry where high market demand and multiple container loads justify all sizes.

Some of the ones that makes slightly larger tanks, at least in the invertebrate realm, is exoterra and hagan. they are pretty common but also can be pretty expensive for what they are. just how it is If you needed 30 eco terra larger enclosures, you could quite easily justify buying a shops' worth of tools and making your own then still having a shops worth if tools to make all sorts of things. Even.on the cheek, it's amazing how much can be done with a saw and a drill!

 

[fcat]

If this question was in regards to large acrylic tanks, I read that large sizes don't exist because of the warping, and the thickness/material required to withstand warping is too cost prohibitive. For what is available in the US, that leaves glass enclosures.

This topic lives rent free in my head because I have several pamphobeteus, xenesthis, phormictopus and one stirmi that are all actively growing up. The largest acrylic enclosure for cheap I can get my hands on is 10x15x8.5h. I give them 7" of substrate on one side (they all love the 1.5" of ceiling space and use it more than their hides). I put my seemanni in one, she dug to the bottom in one day, and frankly that's not good enough for my $20 deli cup girl.

I have inadvertently sourced a few of these glass exos or zillas (sorry I can let you know if it matters). For my stirmi, an 18x24. I think that one is only 12 high, so that means I am going to have to get really creative with simulating an underground burrow. That seems....skimpy.

I have a 12x12x12 front opening that seems virtually useless for a terrestrial? How do I fill the giant fall space/void at the front door? Modifications? And for what? To give my tarantula 12x12 instead of 10x15? The 10x15 is $7. About what I would pay on one sheet of acrylic to replace the mesh lid on a glass tank.

What do we have here? An 18" front opening cube??? I might give this one to my P cambridgei.

Above all though, WHERE IS THE CROSS VENTILATION? Better not give anyone more than a few inches of substrate or it will block the front ventilation holes one the bottom of the door.

I'm considering buying fish tanks, swapping out the short sides with acrylic panels. To keep it cheap I can recycle the two glass short panels and use them as doors on the lid, centered amongst a few strips of perforated acrylic, so my ventilation allows for hot air to escape but not all the moisture. I think I can get it done for under $50 if I time it during the tank sales.

The other alternative is to find someone to drill glass for me. Then my biggest problem would be financing all the substrate I want to give my critters lol.

I actually have quite a few small glass fish tank style sitting around, ranging from 2.5g to a 20 long. From buying tarantulas that were already in them. My oldest largest tarantula came in the 20 long. She's a brachypelma hamorii, I do mean old. She moves about once a week, rotating is moving!!! It was one of the worst setups I've seen when you factor in the price of the enclosure and the 1" of cork bark they put in it. Like they could've given her 2" of wood chips in a 10 gallon??!? I'm kidding.