Zophobas morio pupa

[Tarzanus]

Hello there!

I have successfully made some of superworms pupate. Now, there are a lot of conflicting information about the duration of the pupal stage, so I decided to try my luck here, I'm sure many of you have tried breeding them.

I noticed that some zophobas larva pupated unbelievably fast within just a few days. Some took more time and some turned black at one point and died off. I noticed most deaths when I tried to pupate them just after the purchase within a day or so. After 14 days, almost all started pupating, most less than a week. out of 9, usually 7 curled up and two remained alive and kicking. I started throwing those back into their container to eat and re-hydrate, before trying again. Usually these were the ones that molted right before I confined them to pupate or molted in their pupation confinements .

At first I did not do any research about pupation period and time to see the adult beetles, now I'm writing down exact perimeters, humidity and temperature of individual pupa. I hope I can get good info about the effect of environment (T and RH) on pupation.

I now have first batch of pupa that is around 8 days old. They started getting their eyes colored up slightly. Is there a way to tell how soon they are going to emerge as adults? Anyone tried getting similar observations?

I just wanted to add - they are of all sizes. There are several that are really much larger than the rest. These were the oldest and fattest superworms. I guess they will all breed normally and live a short but happy life.

 

[ccTroi]

Is there a way to tell how soon they are going to emerge as adults?

It took about 30 days give or take ime for the complete metamorphosis. Pupa with very detailed body features (e.g. legs, eyes) is an indication that metamorphosis is nearing its end.

If I were you I would keep the pupae in there separate containers until the complete metamorphosis has taken place (i.e. until the beetles emerge).

 

[Tarzanus]

It took about 30 days give or take ime for the complete metamorphosis. Pupa with very detailed body features (e.g. legs, eyes) is an indication that metamorphosis is nearing its end.

If I were you I would keep the pupae in there separate containers until the complete metamorphosis has taken place (i.e. until the beetles emerge).

I'm keeping others separated. I placed these into their breeding bin. I know the adult beetles can start attacking the remaining pupa after their metamorphosis completes. I was out of the tackle boxes, 'plastic kinder eggs', and containers to keep them, so I started 'incubating' 10 pupa in a tray like these on the photo. I intend to separate them when they start completing the cycle or I'll just rise the tray up above ground so that the newly emerged beetles fall down when they start roaming around and won't be able to come back up. I will give them carrots when I see their legs starting to turn brown. They have a few inches of bran inside, already waiting for them on the bottom.

 

[Mirandarachnid]

Do you put any bran in with the worms when you separate them to pupate?

I just started some off about two days ago, so this thread is well timed for me, lol.

 

[ccTroi]

Do you put any bran in with the worms when you separate them to pupate?

I just started some off about two days ago, so this thread is well timed for me, lol.

I have heard that putting food items in the container you use to separate them delays the time they start to molt. I believe it's a common misconception, however. As long as they are separated from the other pupae, they will molt. I would actually put some food items in the container just in case you pull a pupa that is not yet ready to forgo complete metamorphosis. That way, it could still grow as it's eating in its own container. I would check the pupae couples times a week.

 

[Mirandarachnid]

I have heard that putting food items in the container you use to separate them delays the time they start to molt. I believe it's a common misconception, however. As long as they are separated from the other pupae, they will molt. I would actually put some food items in the container just in case you pull a pupa that is not yet ready to forgo complete metamorphosis. That way, it could still grow as it's eating in its own container. I would check the pupae couples times a week.

That's what I heard as well, but I also read that it's good to put a pinch of bran in with them so the beetles have something to eat once they emerge. I ended up doing some with bran, some with nothing, and some with a pinch of multi-grain baby cereal for funsies since I was mixing up some food for some waxies.

Although they did just come from the store, I may throw them a tiny piece of carrot in case they're dehydrated.

 

[Tarzanus]

I think that the container in which you place the worms have to be small. You don't need to give them food, they should start pupating immediately after they feels safe from predating larva. That's why I think placing them in small compartments triggers the process faster. In nature, they start chewing rotten wood, creating a tunnel and a small hole in which they hide and pupate. I tried one a glass filled with some bran and that one did not even start pupating in a week or so, so I just moved it into a tackle box where hopefully it will pupate.

 

[ccTroi]

I think that the container in which you place the worms have to be small.

Personally, I don’t think container size has an effect. I have had several larvae pupate in some of my T enclosures. As long as the larva is separated, it will pupate

You don't need to give them food

You don’t need to give them food. However, there will be times that a larva is separated too early (or too small) for it to forgo complete metamorphosis. Food is for the larvae that would not pupate so in the month-long process that they are left alone, the larvae will continue to grow while the others pupate. This will avoid getting larvae that are straight and blackened like the OP has experienced. And like @Mirandarachnid mentioned, it can be food for the emerging beetles as well.

I tried one a glass filled with some bran and that one did not even start pupating in a week or so

Maybe the larva was too small for it to start pupating? The largest and most plump of a group will start to pupate significantly faster compared to larvae that are a tad smaller.

 

[Tarzanus]

Personally, I don’t think container size has an effect. I have had several larvae pupate in some of my T enclosures. As long as the larva is separated, it will pupate

You don’t need to give them food. However, there will be times that a larva is separated too early (or too small) for it to forgo complete metamorphosis. Food is for the larvae that would not pupate so in the month-long process that they are left alone, the larvae will continue to grow while the others pupate. This will avoid getting larvae that are straight and blackened like the OP has experienced. And like @Mirandarachnid mentioned, it can be food for the emerging beetles as well.

Maybe the larva was too small for it to start pupating? The largest and most plump of a group will start to pupate significantly faster compared to larvae that are a tad smaller.

Perhaps it's just a strange coincidence, but I've managed to get 2 pupa from small containers and there's one glass jar with superworm that refused to pupate. I started feeding him again and I'll try again in a week or so.
Regarding food. I'm not sure how long they can go without water. If I add bran only, then they could eat, but would dehydrate without bringing them some additional moist food source now and then.
All of them were large, I bought full size larvae that were most likely dehydrated and hungry when I got them. That was the reason my first batch had some black dead worms. Like I said, after feeding them, they started transforming much more readily (7 out of 9 compared to 4 out of 9). I removed the worms that did not pupate after I saw the first pupae, and started feeding them again. I had like 4 dead larvae and somewhere around 20 pupae. Many more coming as they are already curled and starting to get the bright yellow color.

 

[Tarzanus]

Oh, one more thing. The most effective is kinder surprise plastic egg shell ripoff. Semi transparent green colored shell. Today, I've noticed the third pupa emerged. Sadly I only have one and can't compare it with other green casings. In regular plastic shells, 1/3 is still wiggling around. Especially one is feisty and had managed to make the air hole 4 times larger. I placed it into another container, so it won't escape. They can eat quite hard plastic.
I think I will try with different colors. Perhaps green and brown will be better than bright yellow.

PS: I have placed pieces of dry japanese knotweed poles. They started eating them and I have noticed some are starting to pupate. I will now take out the woody stems of japanese knotweed with non-moving superworms and place them into separate container. Some are already curled up.

 

[Tarzanus]

An update:
2 of those on the photo I posted are now already beetles. One seems to be drying and ironing it's wings, the second one hid under an egg carton cover. Perhaps doing the same in private.
There are still 7 pupae, some already moving their legs and will most likely emerge soon. It's strange how two of them emerged at the same time. They were not that close when they pupated. I think they have to sense that there are other beetles emerging and they fast forward themselves as well.

It took 10 days for them to transform into beetles.

 

[Mirandarachnid]

I think that the container in which you place the worms have to be small. You don't need to give them food, they should start pupating immediately after they feels safe from predating larva. That's why I think placing them in small compartments triggers the process faster. In nature, they start chewing rotten wood, creating a tunnel and a small hole in which they hide and pupate.

That's worth a thought. I may rig something up to test this out. If I were to just take a block of wood and drill holes into it for them to pupate in, do you think they would chew through the wood, or are they only able to chew through rotten wood because it's softer? I suppose I could keep the wood block in a plastic container just to be safe. Hmm.

 

[Tarzanus]

They would use it to pupate if the holes will be big enough to allow it. The issue could be that some worms would decide to pupate and others would crawl into their holes and eat them while they transform.
They can eat wood, but not very fast, your plan would survive quite some generations I think. They pick rotten wood because they can easily chew it, besides it must be much easier to digest since it's already partly decomposed. They create chambers in which they transform into adult beetles. I've seen them stuffing the exit of their japanese knotweed internodes with stuff they find, before starting the metamorphosis, keeping other worms out. They are quite intelligent.

 

[Tarzanus]

One question for the experts!

Now there are 6 beetles and there seems to be something wrong with two of them. It might be nothing, but they just craw somewhere away from all the other bugs and lie on the floor. Their legs are not stretched, they look as they are dead. When you poke them, they seem to walk normally, but only to lie down again. I gave them pieces of an apple, bran, oatmeal, a slice of an orange and lettuce. The healthy looking ones are on top of the orange all the time, the sickly ones sit in the bran doing nothing.

Is it normal or is there something wrong with them? They are all red colored at this point.

I guess I'll see how it goes. I added a carrot just in case and I can already see it's a popular treat. All the lively beetles attacked it instantly.