Your First Old World Tarantula?

[Nightshady]

This is basic knowledge around people that deal with venomous snakes. I have dealt with snakes for the past 27 years. And most physicians are woefully uneducated on treating venomous bites. Check an LD/50 chart and look for Agkistrodon contortrix. I have followed the treatment of hundreds of envenomations treated by physicians that are well versed in such and freely share their experinces. I am very educated on the subject, and my above comment is factually 100% correct. Feel free to do your own research. I will no longer reply and let this thread get back on track. Any concerns, I will discuss this further by Pm. Thanks.

Re: treatment of venomous snake bites, it goes down pretty much like this - ER guy starts anti-venom and hands off to the medicine doc to manage supportive care and surgeon to monitor for wound management. Sure, if you go to some ramshackle rinky-dink hospital in the middle of nowhere with a snake bite, you might be in trouble, but in a real hospital it's a slam dunk treatment, unlike what you seem to believe. Still, Copperhead bites will hospitalize an adult and I've taken one or two to surgery for them, so yeah... if I see them in my yard they get put down. Anywho, good convo. As you said, back to spiders...

 

[Ungoliant]

I appreciate the concern though, but quite frankly it's not really needed anyway. Pretty sure I'm going to go with Avic Versi for my 2nd anyway, and I'm not planning on getting it anytime soon.

I think you will enjoy the Caribena versicolor. They're a nice second tarantula and a good introduction to arboreals. (And who doesn't love a brightly colored fluff ball?)

I guess we are just different people. The thought of owning an OBT doesn't stress me out or make me fearful. They are fast, aggressive, and potentially dangerous animals that should be respected and treated as such.

I can only speak for myself, but I came to appreciate the four years of experience I had with my New World tarantulas when I got my first Old World this month, and it was time to move her into her new home. The rehousing went well and without any stress on my part, because even though the species was new to me, I had already gotten a good sense of how tarantulas move and how things can go wrong.

In comparison, my very first rehousing (with my first tarantula) nearly ended in disaster, because I didn't know what I was doing and hadn't looked up rehousing methods beforehand. (In short, I thought if I prodded my Avicularia, she would walk onto my hand, and I could then just carry her to the new enclosure. Instead, she bolted up my arm and around to my back.) I'm glad I made that mistake with an Avic and not a Pokie or something.

Waiting is also helpful in that it gives you time to make beginner's errors and learn not to worry about the things new keepers tend to worry about. Harassing your new Brachypelma albopilosum by opening its sealed retreat to check on it is one thing. It's not likely to bite, and even if it did, the symptoms would be minor. But piss off a defensive baboon with "helicopter husbandry," and it may very well ruin your day.

 

[Poec54]

i dont think either is a fair comparison for an escaped obt. That could be prevented in a different way.

Learn more about OW bites. They can be very serious to dogs and cats, even fatal. Very little is known about the vast majority of OW venoms (which are going to vary as that's such a large geographic area, and many parts are isolated), the little done so far shows some to be fairly strong. Of a study done on 7 canines bitten by Australian tarantulas, all 7 dogs died, and some were large dogs. This isn't kid stuff. Whenever I hear someone new to the hobby or new to OW's, say that they won't have any problems with an OBT; they have no idea. They don't have the experience to know the ways things can go wrong, and often all it takes is a split second for it to unravel. I'm not saying inexperienced people getting OBT's never works out, but for the average person it's a lot more than they expected up front, and it takes a lot of the enjoyment out of ownership. Your skills won't develop as fast as an OBT sling grows. If you live alone, without visitors, and without cats and dogs, then you're going to be the sole one paying the price for an escape. But otherwise, other people get dragged into it. Is that fair to them?

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I understand that they are fast, aggressive, and have strong venom. Seems they also web a lot so you may not see them a lot. Aside from these issues, why do you find them to be a bad choice? Thanks for your input.

If you want one, then follow Chris LXXIX advice, the 'rule zero': never be a "substrate Scrooge"*

* (™)

 

[The Grym Reaper]

If you want one, then follow Chris LXXIX advice, the 'rule zero': never be a "substrate Scrooge"*

* (™)

That one helped for my C. huahini, everything I found pretty much said "give it plenty of sub to burrow in and it shouldn't give you much trouble" which was pretty accurate, if she's out she'll just run to back into her web-riddled hole of doom when disturbed, my only interactions with her involve seeing a light brown blur disappear any feeder that I place at the mouth of her burrow.

 

[JoshDM020]

Learn more about OW bites. They can be very serious to dogs and cats, even fatal. Very little is known about the vast majority of OW venoms (which are going to vary as that's such a large geographic area, and many parts are isolated), the little done so far shows some to be fairly strong. Of a study done on 7 canines bitten by Australian tarantulas, all 7 dogs died, and some were large dogs. This isn't kid stuff. Whenever I hear someone new to the hobby or new to OW's, say that they won't have any problems with an OBT; they have no idea. They don't have the experience to know the ways things can go wrong, and often all it takes is a split second for it to unravel. I'm not saying inexperienced people getting OBT's never works out, but for the average person it's a lot more than they expected up front, and it takes a lot of the enjoyment out of ownership. Your skills won't develop as fast as an OBT sling grows. If you live alone, without visitors, and without cats and dogs, then you're going to be the sole one paying the price for an escape. But otherwise, other people get dragged into it. Is that fair to them?

I wasnt trying to downplay escaped OWs at all. Quite the opposite.
I was saying native scorpions and a copperhead making their way indoors is kindof a different situation all together, and shouldnt be compared to a captive pet escaping.
Ive done a lot of research on bites from nw and ow alike, and know its not something to joke about. Part of the reason i am set on waiting, no matter how pretty they are.

 

[miss moxie]

Someone isn't going to make friends around here with that "I'm new around here, but I'm cocky enough to get sassy with people who've been doing this for decades" attitude. Not naming any names.

Oh what the heck. I wouldn't have a reputation for being so sassy if I didn't name names! Tell me, @Nightshady-- How many OBT bites have you treated, doctor? How many OBTs have you rehoused, doctor? How many OWs have you rehoused, doctor? Heck-- how many tarantulas have you rehoused at all, doctor?

It's alright to get crappy with @FinnMosin on the basis that he's not a doctor who has experience treating copperhead bites, like you do, so you must know more about that than him. But when someone who's got personal experience with OWs and OBTs tells you something, suddenly the line has been crossed?

If you're going to disregard other's advice that is based on their personal experience, then why should anyone listen to the advice you give based on personal experience? Did you take a hypocrite oath instead of the Hippocratic oath, doctor?

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Someone isn't going to make friends around here with that "I'm new around here, but I'm cocky enough to get sassy with people who've been doing this for decades" attitude. Not naming any names.

Oh what the heck. I wouldn't have a reputation for being so sassy if I didn't name names! Tell me, @Nightshady-- How many OBT bites have you treated, doctor? How many OBTs have you rehoused, doctor? How many OWs have you rehoused, doctor? Heck-- how many tarantulas have you rehoused at all, doctor?

It's alright to get crappy with @FinnMosin on the basis that he's not a doctor who has experience treating copperhead bites, like you do, so you must know more about that than him. But when someone who's got personal experience with OWs and OBTs tells you something, suddenly the line has been crossed?

If you're going to disregard other's advice that is based on their personal experience, then why should anyone listen to the advice you give based on personal experience? Did you take a hypocrite oath instead of the Hippocratic oath, doctor?

A bit sassy

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Someone isn't going to make friends around here with that "I'm new around here, but I'm cocky enough to get sassy with people who've been doing this for decades" attitude. Not naming any names.

Oh what the heck. I wouldn't have a reputation for being so sassy if I didn't name names! Tell me, @Nightshady-- How many OBT bites have you treated, doctor? How many OBTs have you rehoused, doctor? How many OWs have you rehoused, doctor? Heck-- how many tarantulas have you rehoused at all, doctor?

It's alright to get crappy with @FinnMosin on the basis that he's not a doctor who has experience treating copperhead bites, like you do, so you must know more about that than him. But when someone who's got personal experience with OWs and OBTs tells you something, suddenly the line has been crossed?

If you're going to disregard other's advice that is based on their personal experience, then why should anyone listen to the advice you give based on personal experience? Did you take a hypocrite oath instead of the Hippocratic oath, doctor?

Bodybagged, 3-zip, Don DeMarcos all round, you done know

 

[Chris LXXIX]

if I see them in my yard they get put down.

Have you ever killed one with a Sjambok?

That one helped for my C. huahini, everything I found pretty much said "give it plenty of sub to burrow in and it shouldn't give you much trouble" which was pretty accurate, if she's out she'll just run to back into her web-riddled hole of doom when disturbed, my only interactions with her involve seeing a light brown blur disappear any feeder that I place at the mouth of her burrow.

Doesn't exist, for me, something more sublime than a hole in a 'no man's land' of substrate where, at night, you can see only (part) of those legs, waiting. Fast as light, they grab the prey, and the victim doesn't even know what happened.

An immense, fast, 'stalking - ambush' predatory hunting... I love that. This is one of the reasons why (aside very few exceptions), I'm not a fan at all of arboreals and terrestrials.

My goal is to end one day with a collection of enclosures where the only thing 'you' can see is this supreme perfection

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Doesn't exist, for me, something more sublime than a hole in a 'no man's land' of substrate where, at night, you can see only (part) of those legs, waiting. Fast as light, they grab the prey, and the victim doesn't even know what happened.

An immense, fast, 'stalking - ambush' predatory hunting... I love that. This is one of the reasons why (aside very few exceptions), I'm not a fan at all of arboreals and terrestrials.

My goal is to end one day with a collection of enclosures where the only thing 'you' can see is this supreme perfection

View attachment 256005

I have to admit, as much as I love my pwetty black and red/orange pet rocks (and my rather eccentric B. hamorii), there is something about seeing something disappear down a tunnel in a blinding flurry of legs that gives me good old belly laugh

 

[Nightshady]

Someone isn't going to make friends around here with that "I'm new around here, but I'm cocky enough to get sassy with people who've been doing this for decades" attitude. Not naming any names.

Oh what the heck. I wouldn't have a reputation for being so sassy if I didn't name names! Tell me, @Nightshady-- How many OBT bites have you treated, doctor? How many OBTs have you rehoused, doctor? How many OWs have you rehoused, doctor? Heck-- how many tarantulas have you rehoused at all, doctor?

It's alright to get crappy with @FinnMosin on the basis that he's not a doctor who has experience treating copperhead bites, like you do, so you must know more about that than him. But when someone who's got personal experience with OWs and OBTs tells you something, suddenly the line has been crossed?

If you're going to disregard other's advice that is based on their personal experience, then why should anyone listen to the advice you give based on personal experience? Did you take a hypocrite oath instead of the Hippocratic oath, doctor?

Why be rude for the sake of being rude? Does it make you feel powerful, or are you just trying to show off for your internet friends? I didn't feel like my interactions with Poec were sassy or inconsiderate. In fact, I thanked him for his replies, input, and his concern in a few messages. If @Poec54 thought I was being rude, then I do apologize to him/her. His reasoning of having experience prior to owning an OW is sound, and I agree with it... hence the message where I said I wasn't planning on getting an OW as a 2nd spider or even getting a 2nd spider anytime soon. Just because I said I'm not afraid of them doesn't mean that I'm disregarding his expertise or being sassy. Please feel free to not interact with me further; I have little time for petty keyboard warriors. Cheers, and have a great life.

Have you ever killed one with a Sjambok?

I had to google that. No... I typically use a shotgun.

If you want one, then follow Chris LXXIX advice, the 'rule zero': never be a "substrate Scrooge"*

* (™)

Have heard that a couple times now and seems very sound. Will keep that in mind for down the road aways... Cheers!

 

[miss moxie]

Why be rude for the sake of being rude? Does it make you feel powerful, or are you just trying to show off for your internet friends? I didn't feel like my interactions with Poec were sassy or inconsiderate. In fact, I thanked him for his replies, input, and his concern in a few messages. If @Poec54 thought I was being rude, then I do apologize to him/her. His reasoning of having experience prior to owning an OW is sound, and I agree with it... hence the message where I said I wasn't planning on getting an OW as a 2nd spider or even getting a 2nd spider anytime soon. Just because I said I'm not afraid of them doesn't mean that I'm disregarding his expertise or being sassy. Please feel free to not interact with me further; I have little time for petty keyboard warriors. Cheers, and have a great life.

"Uhm, I doubt..." Doesn't come off very polite, no matter what tone you use. You were also rude to @FinnMosin when he disagreed with your assessment of copperhead venom by sarcastically asking how many bites he's treated. Wouldn't it have been more polite to ask for his credentials or the source of his information? Seems rude to just write him off and insist you know better because you've treated copperhead bites. To do so with a condescending remark would be even more rude.

I wasn't being rude for the sake of being rude. I was calling you out for your own pointless lack of manners.

 

[Nightshady]

If I told you that I knew more about *insert name of spider Miss Moxie knows best* than you because I read about it in a book when I had no real world experience with them at all, you would be foaming at the mouth. The copperhead interaction was no different.

Now... I'm off to search for an 'ignore user' function.

 

[miss moxie]

If I told you that I knew more about *insert name of spider Miss Moxie knows best* than you because I read about it in a book when I had no real world experience with them at all, you would be foaming at the mouth. The copperhead interaction was no different.

Now... I'm off to search for an 'ignore user' function.

It's simple! Just click on my user name and look at the box that comes up! Cheers! May the poor copperheads and invertebrates not "special" enough to be your pet avoid your property at all cost.

 

[Demonclaws]

Research as much as you can for any animal before you get it. Understand what are the potential situation you may run into. There are so much information out there today compared to days without internet. In my opinion, if you start having fears or being stressed out by a spider after research, you should not own it. There is definitely a learning curve when it comes to keeping animals. Some people picked up OWs pretty fast, and some may never own one. Take every precaution when you rehouse and feed the animal, things can go bad when you get cocky.

@Nightshady If you do proper research, you should already know why OWs are bad as second T, generally speaking.

 

[Nightshady]

Research as much as you can for any animal before you get it. Understand what are the potential situation you may run into. There are so much information out there today compared to days without internet. In my opinion, if you start having fears or being stressed out by a spider after research, you should not own it. There is definitely a learning curve when it comes to keeping animals. Some people picked up OWs pretty fast, and some may never own one. Take every precaution when you rehouse and feed the animal, things can go bad when you get cocky.

@Nightshady If you do proper research, you should already know why OWs are bad as second T, generally speaking.

All sound advice, and I definitely agree that if you're afraid of owning an animal, you definitely shouldn't own it.

Without question OW spiders are potentially dangerous, but of course everything is relative. I have several hobbies where mistakes equal death or serious injury, so while I would never want to be bitten by an OW spider, it would be far from the worst thing that has happened to me.

Thanks for your knowledgeable input. Cheers!

Always good, especially if the shotgun is an Italian SPAS-12, but the Sjambok is amazing (well I love Kali*)

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnis

I also 'love' (not in a homo way, uh, lol) Lynn C. Thompson, head of 'Cold Steel', one of my idea of how an American Man should be

Ha, I used to carry a lot of Cold Steel knives. I've more recently switched to Benchmade though.

 

[FrDoc]

Obtained P. Muticus for my first OW, and was handed a H. Himalayana sling as a freebie in the deal. So, I was thrust into two new worlds (for me) at the same time.

P.S. You guys hijacking the thread with knife comments need to open your minds, and if your not careful your skin, to going with CRKT.

 

[0311usmc]

My first tarantula was an obt sling purchased In 2007. Since then my collection has grown to 10 tarantulas, 7 of the 10 are old worlds. I like old worlds better than new worlds by far and the only new world tarantula on my wish list is the t.blondi so I would own all 3 theraphosas after acquiring the blondi. In my 10 years of keeping old worlds I don't know what a threat posture is or stridulation. All my tarantulas have plenty of substrate and good hides and they all go to their hides at the slightest disturbance.

 

[Trenor]

At risk of derailing the conversation, I am very familiar with copperheads and their population densities if conditions are favorable. I see more copperheads than any other snake in my area, and bites are still incredibly rare. Killing doesn't solve anything other than just killing a wild animal. A much better approach would be to make ones property unattractive to them (removing cover, limiting food that their prey eats, keeping lawns short, etc). This is much more effective. We can use our knowledge to live with nature, not kill it. And also canines are amazingly resilient to our native vipers venom. Dogs typically have very good prognosis when bit. Especially by a snake with as "mild" venom as a copperhead. I'm just confused as to someone that likes spiders, a very misunderstood creature, killing snakes. I may be crazy though.

That makes for a good idea but it's not an option sometimes. I grew up on a pretty rural farm. You will never get rid of the food there since you are growing it. We had eggs, chicks, ducklings, and yes even kittens (for the barn cats and not for food mind you ). Our farm ponds (for the livestock) had tons of frogs in them. I have seen all these things being eaten by snakes at some point in my life on the farm. Getting rid of your farm animals that the snakes use for food isn't something you can really do and still have a farm. We never went out of our way to kill all the snakes we encountered but if they rolled up in the chicken coop or out in the duck pond or snacked on the kittens in the barn they got a pretty quick death. As far as bites go, I've only had dogs bitten and though they got pretty sick none of them died. None of my family has ever have been bitten.

I own snakes and tarantulas. I don't go out of the way to kill any living thing but you can't just coexist with the wild in all cases. Sometimes there isn't a better option.


As far as my first OW tarantulas, I got 3 poecs for my first foray into OWs.