World’s heaviest spider title challenged at Museum H.Hercules vs T.Blondi/Stirmi

Scolopeon

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Did a search on this fairly recent news, and it came up clean... so i'm posting here for everyone.

They show the H.Hercules in the video.

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/about-us/news/...t-spider-title-challenged-at-museum99065.html
http://blogs.nature.com/grrlscientist/2011/07/20/worlds-heaviest-spider-title-challenged-at-museum


Boxing gloves were nowhere in sight for a world spider heavy-weight title challenge at the Natural History Museum last month.
The contenders were the Hercules baboon spider, and the current Guinness World Records (GWR) holder for world’s heaviest spider, the Goliath bird-eater.

Museum bug expert George Beccaloni was contacted by GWR life sciences consultant Karl Shuker after reports of a possible rival. Karl asked George if he could check the size of the Hercules baboon spider as the Natural History Museum has the world’s only known specimen and George is the author of the Museum book, Big Bugs Life-Size. The Goliath bird-eating spider rarely eats birds but certainly is goliath in size. © George Beccaloni

GWR Editor-in-Chief Craig Glenday came in to adjudicate when George measured the two spiders. Using a jar of alcohol and the Archimedes' Principle, both specimens were submerged to discover the volume of alcohol they displaced, and therefore the volume of their bodies.

Spider specimens are stored in alcohol and this makes their internal organs shrink. The water inside them gets replaced by alcohol, which is about 25% lighter than water. This means that their weight when they were alive would be about 25% greater.
Knowing that they would weigh about 1g per cubic cm when alive means that their weights can easily be calculated if their body volumes are known.

Winning measurements
The female Goliath bird-eating spider specimen measured 69 cubic cm, more than double the volume and therefore the weight of the Hercules baboon spider that measured 22 cubic cm.
So the Goliath bird-eating spider remains the world's heaviest spider species, with the heaviest recorded individual being a 12-year-old captive female called Rosi - according to GWR, it had a body length of 119.4mm and weighed a massive 175g.

My analysis:
The Cephalothorax on the H.Herc is wider than it is long which makes for some crazy proportions (Just look at the picture I posted below, this thing is a monster), no H.Gigas is built like this so there cannot be any in the hobby.
While 1/3 of the weight of the Goliath used, the abdomon on the Hercules is scrawny and undernourished and the Goliath looks plump (22cm cubed vs 69 respectively). The specimen has also been preserved for 100 years so it has lost much of it's mass not to mention that two of the legs are not attached, while the Goliath has been preserved only a few years.

Both appear similar in overall length, so I would say the Hercules could be a very real contender for worlds largest, it would be at least double the weight if in optimal condition so 50 approx vs 69, both animals would be 25% heavier if they were alive.

Herc Real Full Analysis.jpg

Zoom in to appreciate this beast, or save the image.

According to the Ceph proportions this is the only picture I can find of a live one, that is well known as official.
All others are fakes.

hysterocrates_hercules.jpg
 
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Chris_Skeleton

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"To warn off predators these spiders can make a hissing noise by rubbing together the bristles on their first 2 pairs of legs and pedipalps (front appendages)."

I thought it was the chelicerae?
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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Dont forget about LASiodora Klugi which can weigh almost as much as a GOliath/ or H Hercules.
wild bloodlines could be larger and get 10.5"+

H Hercules also lost more mass its been stored for 100 yrs... odds are live specimens are larger.. & heavier.
we dont know it coulda been on the small side... for H Hercules
 
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Chris_Skeleton

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Palps against chelicerae is what I thought.
I thought it was just the chelicerae rubbing together, but palps would make sense too. I don't have any that stridulate nor have I seen one, but I just searched and a few different sites have mentioned rubbing the bristles on the pedipalps or on the first set of legs.
 

Scolopeon

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Yea the specimen still looked comparable to the blondi but less thick.
 

jbm150

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I've heard about the lone H. hercules specimen, nice to finally see it. Looks like a big sexy beast, would love to have one for my collection. Like to see how a full grown LP/klugi or Aussie goliath compares. Probably not as heavy but would still be an interesting comparison
 

catfishrod69

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when watching a P. muticus "hiss" at me, i am pretty sure it is first legs against palps..
"To warn off predators these spiders can make a hissing noise by rubbing together the bristles on their first 2 pairs of legs and pedipalps (front appendages)."

I thought it was the chelicerae?
 

Scolopeon

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I've heard about the lone H. hercules specimen, nice to finally see it. Looks like a big sexy beast, would love to have one for my collection. Like to see how a full grown LP/klugi or Aussie goliath compares. Probably not as heavy but would still be an interesting comparison
Yeah I just recently purchased two Aussie Goliaths and I have KB and H.Gigas old worlds, these guys are all going to get huge so well have to wait and see which one will end up the true giant out of them.

I am a big fan of old worlds and the guy above this is right in King Baboons (My favourite T of course) it is indeed the first leg and the palps but I think the chelicerae may play a part in that, my Killimanjaro Baboon is palps to chelicirae I believe, but this discussion is for a different thread I think.

I wanted to let everyone see the H.Herc and man would I love to get hold of one of those, that'd be on my top 5 list for sure did you see the carapace on that beasty!

My Gigas is getting huge right now, my King Baboon is 4" and approaching a molt and my Salmon Pink juv is fat and huge.

I have owned a 10.5" blondi in the past but right now I want to bring an Aussie Goliath and Salmon Pink to these proportions... it's going to be a wild ride.

Just to add I have owned an 8" King Baboon in the past also and she was an impressive beast with those pencil thick back legs, a King Baboon at 9+ " I would die for.
 

synyster

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I thought it was just the chelicerae rubbing together, but palps would make sense too. I don't have any that stridulate nor have I seen one, but I just searched and a few different sites have mentioned rubbing the bristles on the pedipalps or on the first set of legs.
Yeah Chris, Theraphosa sp. do possess stridulation organs on the palps and depending on the species, on legs I or legs I and II ;) I have never heard any of mine use them though...
 

Scolopeon

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Guys after taking various screens of that video I got a screenshot of the Goliath Baboon Spider I can verify that it is not just simply a larger H.Gigas, the Cephalothorax on this beast is wider than it is long, unlike the elongated ones seen on the H.Gigas.

Man the shot of this beast has to be seen, it looks comparable to the Goliath Birdeater in size, I want one !

Herc Real Full Analysis.jpg
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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Yeah but we do not have the LArgest possible specimen on H Hercules.. its just a single on collected.. and killed.. they shoulda cared for it til it reached a maximum size.. and died of old age,..
Largest Size could be 11-12"+ the Carpace was HUGE!!!! immense T big fangs!!
Hope more Large Ts Exist but are un-discovered
 

Scolopeon

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Well looking at the comparison, that Hercules is indeed a massive spider, comparable to the largest in terms of carapace and chelicerae size... infact I have never seen anything quite like it...

I would literally kill to get my hands on one.

---------- Post added 11-17-2011 at 12:20 PM ----------

Also the specimen had not fed as is evident by the small abdomen size... this thing could have been double the weight or even triple.
 

jim777

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So, has no one seen another specimen of H. hercules in 100 years then? Is it considered extinct at this point?
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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Chances are its a burrowing species... hard to find =/

A SPider this big... cant be extinct.. if H Gigas is around...
there are a few living specimens in the European hobby
 
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Scolopeon

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Chances are its a burrowing species... hard to find =/

A SPider this big... cant be extinct.. if H Gigas is around...
there are a few living specimens in the European hobby
It was a certain area in Nigeria where the drug trade is prevalent, armed men have outposts there ready to shoot anyone who gets near....

So far no one has managed to get to the area.
 

1hughjazzspider

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Chances are its a burrowing species... hard to find =/

A SPider this big... cant be extinct.. if H Gigas is around...
there are a few living specimens in the European hobby

Correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying there's a few living specimens of H. hercules in the European hobby? If so I'd like to know where you got that information from.
 

Shell

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Correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying there's a few living specimens of H. hercules in the European hobby? If so I'd like to know where you got that information from.
I was wondering that also....


A SPider this big... cant be extinct.. if H Gigas is around...
I'm also curious, Ultum, what size has to do with a species being extinct? And, how H. gigas being around is "proof" to you that H. hercules is also.....I'm really just confused by the thought process you have going on here....


For the record, I'm not saying that H. hercules couldn't be around, it very well could be. I'm just wondering about your specific thought process here.
 
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1hughjazzspider

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I mean I can understand the fact that there very well may be a small number of the species still living but unless someone finds one and compares it with the specimen at the British Museum then there's no way of knowing for sure. As for people in Europe claiming to own one chances are it's just an H. gigas that was sold by the dealer as an H. hercules. Plus from what I understand the carapace on the hercules is slighty different than on the gigas so it should be easy to tell the difference.
 

Amoeba

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Chances are its a burrowing species... hard to find =/

A SPider this big... cant be extinct.. if H Gigas is around...
there are a few living specimens in the European hobby
As far as I know there is only one confirmed specimen of H hercules and it's in a jar.

Also I could go through all of South America cutting down trees and stomping Theraphosa sp and their size won't save them...
 
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