Which T has the most potent venom?

[GartenSpinnen]

I've heard among the worst are from a dwarf species that I cannot remember for the life of me. They are not common in the hobby... if at all?

Then Stromatopelma calceatum has some interesting documentation show systemic reactions in people. H. maculata has some interesting documentation as well, where people have received some nasty bites from fairly small slings much smaller than what would normally cause those reactions in other species.

Then the Poecilotheria sp. seem to have quite a bite of variability to the bite reports of those who have been bitten. They range from being just painful, to being significant enough for people to seek emergency treatment due to pain, muscle cramps, profuse sweating, and other symptoms.

Pterinochilus sp., especially P. murinus and P. lugardi have some interesting bite reports attributed to them. I have heard that P. lugardi is worse, but who really knows and how are you going to accurately compare them having so many different variables to each bite incidence from individual to individual?

Haplopelma sp. are reportedly bad as well. I would think from what I have read they are similar in strength to Pterinochilus sp.

Then there is the Australian tarantulas. Those have been shown to have quite nasty bites and are generally less heard about due to not as many people keeping them in captivity compared to other more popular species. I have heard that their bite can cause a dog to die, and is worse compared to many others.

The bottom line is that the LD50 rates DO NOT apply accurately in many areas with tarantulas and that it is widely a gray area that needs to be studied better and more accurately. The majority of information out there revolves around hearsay obtained from word of mouth and bite reports.... which are not exactly credible for accuracy...

 

[DreadLobster]

Here's some data taken from Escoubas, Pierre & Lachlan Rash. "Tarantulas: eight legged pharmacists and combinatorial chemists." Toxicon 43 (2004): 555-574:

0.1 microliter of crude venom injected intracerebroventricularly (ICV) in mice:

Species - Time to death (min)

Cithariscius crawshayi - 3
Stromatopelma calceatum - 3
Paraphysa sp. - 4
Poecilotheria regalis - 4
Grammostola actaeon - 5
Grammostola rosea - 5
Heteroscodra maculata - 5
Hysterocrates hercules - 5
Theraphosa blondi - 5
Paraphysa scrofa - 6
Pterinochilus murinus - 6
Avicularia urticans - 8
Grammostola pulchra - 8
Selenocosmia lyra - 8
Ceratogyrus meridionalis - 10
Cyclosternum fasciatum - 10
Cyriopagopus paganus - 10
Eucratoscelus constrictus - 10
Haplopelma lividum - 10
Tapinauchenius latipes - 12
Hysterocrates gigas - 15
Megaphobema velvetosoma - 16
Poecilotheria fasciata - 18
Ceratogyrus marshalli - 20
Pamphobeteus antinous - 25
Ceratogyrus brachycephalus - 40
Ephebopus murinus - 45
Brachypelma boehmei - 50
Megaphobema robustum - 50
Aphonopelma anax - 60
Aphonopelma chalcodes - 60
Aphonopelma pallidum - 60
Aphonopelma seemani - 60
Avicularia avicularia - 60
Brachypelma albopilosum - 60
Brachypelma angustum - 60
Brachypelma auratum - 60
Brachypelma emilia - 60
Brachypelma smithi - 60
Brachypelma vagans - 60
Crassicrus lamanai - 60
Lasiodora parahybana - 60
Megaphobema mesomelas - 60
Pamphobeteus vespertinus - 60
Psalmopoeus cambridgei - 60
Tapinauchenius gigas - 60
Vitalius platyomma - 60

Many mice have died to bring us this information.

Ha. But seriously, I don't think this is a debate that will be settled any time soon, as people have pointed out, the effects on mice are probably much different than the effects on humans.

As far as I've always read around here, Pokies and C. crawshayi are pretty bad, and H. mac's and S. calceatum both have a really bad rep but I haven't seen too many actual bite reports from anyone on this site to verify that.

 

[DreadLobster]

After reading this whole debate, I'm thinking what the OP meant was, "Which T would be the least fun to get bit by."

And in that case, all this talk about peptides and lethal doses... I say just go read through the bite reports. I'm guessing most of them aren't fun.

 

[Arachno Dano]

::

Also, I believe respiratory failure would happen before a heart attack. While the venom does usually speed heart rate up, it usually seems to affect muscles around the chest, arms, legs and abdomen. usually resulting in heavy or short breathing, and muscle spasms throughout the body.

I wonder what that would do to somebody with asthma? ::

~Dano

 

[Anonymity82]

Here's some data taken from Escoubas, Pierre & Lachlan Rash. "Tarantulas: eight legged pharmacists and combinatorial chemists." Toxicon 43 (2004): 555-574:

0.1 microliter of crude venom injected intracerebroventricularly (ICV) in mice:

Species - Time to death (min)

Cithariscius crawshayi - 3
Stromatopelma calceatum - 3
Paraphysa sp. - 4
Poecilotheria regalis - 4
Grammostola actaeon - 5
Grammostola rosea - 5
Heteroscodra maculata - 5
Hysterocrates hercules - 5
Theraphosa blondi - 5
Paraphysa scrofa - 6
Pterinochilus murinus - 6
Avicularia urticans - 8
Grammostola pulchra - 8
Selenocosmia lyra - 8
Ceratogyrus meridionalis - 10
Cyclosternum fasciatum - 10
Cyriopagopus paganus - 10
Eucratoscelus constrictus - 10
Haplopelma lividum - 10
Tapinauchenius latipes - 12
Hysterocrates gigas - 15
Megaphobema velvetosoma - 16
Poecilotheria fasciata - 18
Ceratogyrus marshalli - 20
Pamphobeteus antinous - 25
Ceratogyrus brachycephalus - 40
Ephebopus murinus - 45
Brachypelma boehmei - 50
Megaphobema robustum - 50
Aphonopelma anax - 60
Aphonopelma chalcodes - 60
Aphonopelma pallidum - 60
Aphonopelma seemani - 60
Avicularia avicularia - 60
Brachypelma albopilosum - 60
Brachypelma angustum - 60
Brachypelma auratum - 60
Brachypelma emilia - 60
Brachypelma smithi - 60
Brachypelma vagans - 60
Crassicrus lamanai - 60
Lasiodora parahybana - 60
Megaphobema mesomelas - 60
Pamphobeteus vespertinus - 60
Psalmopoeus cambridgei - 60
Tapinauchenius gigas - 60
Vitalius platyomma - 60

Good information but as to which tarantula is the venomous in humans, which is what I'm assuming the OP meant, these statistics are irrelevant. Mice are affected much differently than humans are by tarantula venom.

---------- Post added 01-22-2012 at 02:05 AM ----------

Tarantula homes. you are completely missing my point.

YES! Mice and humans are similar. This is why we use the LD50 chart to compare venom from snakes, scorpions...ect.

BUT! WE cannot use mice to test LD50 readings with tarantulas simply because SOME tarantulas possess venom specifically designed to kill mice. There for, MICE cannot be used to compare venom affects of humans.

again. MICE are not and cannot accurately be used to determine the potency of tarantula venom ON HUMANS.

+1 Where's Pikaia?!

---------- Post added 01-22-2012 at 02:09 AM ----------

Either way, Im willing to say it would be S. calceatum, or a P. subfusca. The P. subfusca made a guy go into coma off and on for weeks.

Note to self: Don't get P. subfusca!

 

[Necromion]

I remember the article in the bite reports for S. calceatum which states that the author had experianced a case where a man was bitten around the neck area, and if not for the immediate intervention of the author the man would have died as a direct result of the swelling causing his wind pipe to swell shut. and that for sometime after the man didn't return to full health.

 

[Stan Schultz]

... +1 Where's Pikaia?!

Out in the west Texas desert catching tarantulas! (Click a thumbnail to see a larger image. Uploaded with ImageShack.us.)







There's not much I can say that hasn't already been mentioned. Very interesting thread, though.

 

[Necromion]

@Pikaia Pretty aphonopelma any idea what sp that is?

 

[Stan Schultz]

@Pikaia Pretty aphonopelma any idea what sp that is?

Currently known as Aphonopelma moderatum (Chamberlin & Ivie, 1939), the Rio Grange gold tarantula. However, there have been persistent rumors for years that it's really A. texense (Simon, 1891). We won't know for sure until Brent Hendrixson looks at them in detail, particularly the DNA work, and officially publishes the data.

Under any name, this is arguably perhaps one of the most colorful N. American tarantulas. Not a large species. Full grown adults have a DLS of only 4" to 5" (10-12 cm). Care for them the same as any other arid species, but don't try to handle them. Most of them will ardently attempt to bite.

On the subject of venom, I react to the venom of this species with a mild numbness and tingling that persists for several hours, then gradually fades.